FDA funded UNC activist unlawfully instruct minors how to illegally buy e-cigs online, than claim Internet vendors sell e-cigs to youth

[Bill Godshall]

FDA funded UNC activists violate NC law by iillegally giving credit cards to, instructing teens to lie about their age to unlawfully buy e-cigs (in violation of NC law) online and to request USPS delivery (to avoid ID checks). Then the authors of this sting study claimed most online retailers sell e-cigs to youth
JAMA Network | JAMA Pediatrics | Electronic Cigarette Sales to Minors via the Internet
Online age-verification fails to prevent minors from purchasing e-cigarettes
Senate Bill 530 (2013 NC law prohibits minors from purchasing tobacco products, and prohibits adults from assisting minors to purchase tobacco products, including vapor products)


This study is generating lots of news stories and editorials, and has been cited by many e-cig opponents (including US Senate Dems) as reason why FDA needs to impose deeming regulation (that would ban >99% of all vapor products).

If anyone has a full text version of the study, please send to me at BillGodshall@verizon.net

This is also why Internet vendors need to verify the age of customers, as others (perhaps AG's) may begin recruiting/hiring minors to conduct sting operations against online retailers.

 

[caramel]

In real world, wouldn't those Children first need to steal a credit card?

 

[Bill Godshall]

I think credit card companies will issue cards to minors if a parent requests one, and agrees to pay for all charges incurred via purchases.

But I suspect that most parents who give credit cards to their children check the purchases when paying the credit card bill, and would ask the child to explain any questionable purchases.

 

[vapero]

this is bad! is there any evidence of the fda doings?

 

[retired1]

Prepaid cards are routinely issued to minors as there is no credit line involved. One can simply walk into Walmart with 20 bucks, purchase a prepaid Visa and then go shopping on line.

 

[caramel]

Not sure about it being that easy, last time I checked them you still needed to register and activate them and so on, it looked like a complicated process. Anyone that has actually used one could shed some light?

If it were that easy then UNC could have gone that path for more credibility?

 

[Lessifer]

Prepaid cards are routinely issued to minors as there is no credit line involved. One can simply walk into Walmart with 20 bucks, purchase a prepaid Visa and then go shopping on line.

I think you at least need an ID to purchase a prepaid card, though you probably don't have to be 18.

Also, Entrapment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[caramel]

Also the fundamental fallacy that children can get their money out of thin air. That money has to come from their parents, who can keep a pretty good tab on their kids purchases (even cash - ask for receipts if Junior wants to see more money in his fund). The purchase of a prepaid Visa card should raise some questions.

 

[zoiDman]

Prepaid cards are routinely issued to minors as there is no credit line involved. One can simply walk into Walmart with 20 bucks, purchase a prepaid Visa and then go shopping on line.

If I was Selling e-Liquids that contain Nicotine, I wouldn't offer Prepaid Cards as a form of Payment.

 

[Lessifer]

If I was Selling e-Liquids that contain Nicotine, I wouldn't offer Prepaid Cards as a form of Payment.

I believe prepaid cards appear exactly the same as regular credit cards on the receiving end, the have a card number and a cvc code.

If the federal government is concerned about minors purchasing things online that they shouldn't(not just vaping supplies) they should develop some other commercially available age verification method. Of course they'll probably just create the law and leave the how to(and the funding problem) up to the industry. Or eliminate online sales....

 

[zoiDman]

I believe prepaid cards appear exactly the same as regular credit cards on the receiving end, the have a card number and a cvc code.

If the federal government is concerned about minors purchasing things online that they shouldn't(not just vaping supplies) they should develop some other commercially available age verification method. Of course they'll probably just create the law and leave the how to(and the funding problem) up to the industry. Or eliminate online sales....

I'm not Positive, but I thought that Prepaid Cards have a Unique Numbering System that identifies the as such. I could be Wrong though.

But as you mentioned, making sales Face-2-Face transaction Only would make it More Difficult for a Minor to use Someone Else's Card.

And the Sales person could of "Card" the purchaser to see that they are 18 or Older.

 

[Rickajho]

I think credit card companies will issue cards to minors if a parent requests one, and agrees to pay for all charges incurred via purchases.

But I suspect that most parents who give credit cards to their children check the purchases when paying the credit card bill, and would ask the child to explain any questionable purchases.

American Express will not issue a card for a secondary authorized user on your account unless you can provide sufficient information for the secondary user for a credit check to be performed on that person - including providing their DOB and social security number. Whether that is becoming a new industry standard or is specific to Amex policies only I'm not sure. At least in this case I had to prove who the secondary user was to a degree I have not run across before, even though it had no impact on my financial responsibility for the account.

 

[Kent C]

From the Senate bill:

(d) Sending or assisting a person 18 years to purchase or receive tobacco product.products or cigarette wrapping papers. - If any person shall send a person less than 18 years of age to purchase, acquire, receive, or attempt to purchase, acquire, or receive tobacco products or cigarette wrapping papers, or if any person shall aid or abet a person who is less than 18 years of age in purchasing, acquiring, or receiving or attempting to purchase, acquire, or receive tobacco products or cigarette wrapping papers, the person shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor; provided, however, persons under the age of 18 may be enlisted by police or local sheriffs' departments to test compliance if the testing is under the direct supervision of that law enforcement department and written parental consent is provided; provided further, that the Department of Health and Human Services shall have the authority, pursuant to a written plan prepared by the Secretary of Health and Human Services, to use persons under 18 years of age in annual, random, unannounced inspections, provided that prior written parental consent is given for the involvement of these persons and that the inspections are conducted for the sole purpose of preparing a scientifically and methodologically valid statistical study of the extent of success the State has achieved in reducing the availability of tobacco products to persons under the age of 18, and preparing any report to the extent required by section 1926 of the federal Public Health Service Act (42 USC § 300x-26).

 

[Lessifer]

I'm not Positive, but I thought that Prepaid Cards have a Unique Numbering System that identifies the as such. I could be Wrong though.

But as you mentioned, making sales Face-2-Face transaction Only would make it More Difficult for a Minor to use Someone Else's Card.

And the Sales person could of "Card" the purchaser to see that they are 18 or Older.

OR we could stop worrying about "children" obtaining a substance that has yet to be proven harmful... That would be easier for all involved, and wouldn't strangle an industry that has the potential to help billions of people.

 

[zoiDman]

OR we could stop worrying about "children" obtaining a substance that has yet to be proven harmful... That would be easier for all involved, and wouldn't strangle an industry that has the potential to help billions of people.

We could. But I think California has Already Passed some Legislation regarding Age Limits.

And I don't think there is Any Possibilities that the Feds will Not Restrict sales of e-Liquids that contain Nicotine to individuals under 18 Years Old also.

 

[Lessifer]

We could. But I think California has Already Passed some Legislation regarding Age Limits.

And I don't think there is Any Possibilities that the Feds will Not Restrict sales of e-Liquids that contain Nicotine to individuals under 18 Years Old also.

That doesn't make it right. No matter how many times arbitrary legislation is repeated.

 

[caramel]

zoiD u're not gonna try to sell me regulations or I'll ask you again about cakes.

 

[zoiDman]

That doesn't make it right. No matter how many times arbitrary legislation is repeated.

Not commenting about Right or Wrong.

Just what it Is.

 

[Lessifer]

Not commenting about Right or Wrong.

Just what it Is.

Just because it IS, doesn't mean it HAS TO BE.

see: "other stuff", civil rights, gay marriage, apartheid, etc.

 

[zoiDman]

zoiD u're not gonna try to sell me regulations or I'll ask you again about cakes.

Not Selling anything in this Thread.

But I think it would be a Good Idea to think about ways that an 18 Year or Older Age restriction could be Achieved, WITHOUT having to resort to Face-2-Face Sales Only.

That, and does Anyone else find the concept of the FDA spending Tax Payers Money in an effort to make Under Aged sales statistics larger disturbing?