FDA seizing new shipments

[kristin]

Interesting article, Maxx. According to that article's logic, nicotine users who experience negative health effects, such as smokers, are addicted and those who experience only health benefits are dependant. It makes you wonder how they would classify people who find "something missing" in e-cigarettes and seem to require some form of tobacco for the other MAOIs/tobacco alkaloids, because nicotine alone isn't relieving their withdrawl symptoms from smoking. But what about smokers who never experience any negative health effects? Does simple risk play a factor in how they would define it?

 

[maxx]

Well, the article can only loosely be applied to nicotine since it deals with pain-killers. I posted it to show that there is a distinct difference between the two terms.

 

[Traver]

I'm pretty new at this and don't really know very much but here's my opinion anyway.

For some people the government it's prohibition for others it's money and there always ignorance and in varying degrees a combination of all or any of the three. I just don't see the point in these endless arguments about who is motivated by what. What matters is what are we going to do about it. On legislation CASA sees to be our best bet and they are doing as much as they can with the resources they have. Shouldn't we be putting more effort into promoting and giving them the resources they need.. How can we do that?

In my opinion and as far as I can see we have a resource that we haven't been making the best use of. It's called the internet the best thing ever invented for communication. My inclination is usually to go on the offensive instead of just trying to defend a position. One thing I have been trying to do is find anything out there that allows comments and to put in my 2 cents. Can we find a way to organize this and do it better.

One of the things I would like is to have a place to send people that would present our case in a more aggressive and compelling manner. I know there is CASA and even this forum. CASAA is great for the guy who is already convinced and willing to go on reading. This forum is too disorganized with to much in too confusing. Both great resources but not a place that will get the attention of the general public. I started to play around with a website. Maybe I will get somewhere with it. Right now it doesn't have much and I need to find pictures and images for it.
MDCC Frame set I think I need to change that name.

I'm not the best writer as some of you have noticed and not the best web page designer. But I only want a page or two then point them here or to CASAA, Anyway my point is there should be a better more effective way to use the internet. We have a large resource here in people and I believe they would put out if they thought they were accomplishing something. In fact they are almost begging to do something. How can we harness that energy?

 

[kristin]

Traver, would it help if CASAA had a FAQS page for the new & curious, with answers to common questions about e-cigarettes? Because that is in the works right now. It's meant to be an quicker resource for those just looking for simple, easy to understand answers. Things like, "What are e-cigarettes," "Are e-cigarettes safe," "Are e-cigarettes legal," "Do e-cigarettes contain anti-freeze," "Can e-cigarettes help me quit smoking," etc.

Also, the CASAA facebook page is turning into a great resource and we have a discussion area. Comments may be posted there. We are currently asking for success stories: CASAA on Facebook/Success Stories

 

[MoonRose]

I just give all the factual information there is on nicotine along with the clinical studies that are showing that nicotine is not the "demon drug" so many of them seem to think it is, but that it actually does have some very promising applications to help so many people. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't, just depends on whether or not the person is totally close minded or not. And yes, I do shamelessly compare caffeine and nicotine effects on the body and then pose the question of why people think it's ok to addict both themselves and their young children to caffeine yet demonize nicotine when it's actually the smoke that causes all the harm, not the nicotine itself, that one works quite often to get some folks to thinking.

 

[Traver]

Traver, would it help if CASAA had a FAQS page for the new & curious, with answers to common questions about e-cigarettes? Because that is in the works right now. It's meant to be an quicker resource for those just looking for simple, easy to understand answers. Things like, "What are e-cigarettes," "Are e-cigarettes safe," "Are e-cigarettes legal," "Do e-cigarettes contain anti-freeze," "Can e-cigarettes help me quit smoking," etc.

Also, the CASAA facebook page is turning into a great resource and we have a discussion area. Comments may be posted there. We are currently asking for success stories: CASAA on Facebook/Success Stories

Petrodus said.

Just got a mental image of Rosenthal agreeing to go on TV with
a few of our "top guns" to debate her proposed E-cigarette ban.



We would shred her up so bad she would immediately resign
and go into hiding.

He is wrong she can have every fact wrong and still win the debate with the public. Reagan was really good at that. I could listen to him, know that his facts were out of this world and still want to believe him. He was that good. Facts are not going to win over the public.

Yes you sent me a pdf of the facts page and it will help. That's what CASAA is good at presenting facts. I am not trying or taking about trying to duplicate what you do. Have you looked at that web page. I am trying to do what Reagan was able to do. Create that emotional appeal. It's what any good politician or advertiser does. It's that emotional appeal that wins people over. On the web you do that as much with pictures as words and that's where I am hung up right now. Finding good images. Anther thing is that by aggressive I also mean to trying smokers over to vaping. Numbers really matter in politics.

I haven't looked at the facebook page. I'll do that tomorrow. I do support CASAA and just made a donation recently.

 

[Vocalek]

You're right Moonrose....they do think that way. But if we are to educate and change perceptions, we need to be more careful with our words. We should try to stop using the term ''addiction". I personally don't feel addicted. Dependent yes....addicted, no.

Here is a good article on the subject. It points out dependence is not necessarily a bad thing like addiction is.

Discovery Health "Addiction v. Dependence on Pain Medications"

Good find, Maxx. I have added this to my Favorites so I can locate it again quickly. It will come in handy.

Another reason that I hate to see us thrown into the same boat as those addicted to narcotics is that nicotine has the opposite effect from narcotics. People become dysfunctional when narcotics are in their blood stream: their thinking becomes muddied, their reaction times slows, and their judgement is impaired. You can be ticketed for "Driving while impaired." When people use nicotine, they don't become dysfunctional: Their thinking is clarified, reaaction time can be improved, attention span improves, and judgement stays the same or improves. When people have underlying conditions that are kept in check by nicotine, going off nicotine makes them as impaired as a drunk. I have never heard of a charge of "Driving while under the influence of nicotine."

 

[MoonRose]

Perhaps we need to do side by side comparisons of the effects of both nicotine and caffeine on the body. Making sure of course to state that we are talking not about cigarette smoking but the use of smokeless tobacco products and PV's. Somehow we will find a way to get people to understand that it's not nicotine that is the problem, it's the actual smoke that causes all the problems. Of course it would help if the surgeon general would get her facts straight too, for someone who should know better, she seems to have succumed to following meekly along with the rest of the sheeple over what nicotine does or does not do.

 

[kristin]

I hear you. Anyone who wants to create pages like you created and point them towards CASAA would be greatly appreciated! After looking at your sample page, CASAA does hope to add to that "emotional appeal" by getting people to add their story to CASAA on Facebook/Success Stories I think that is more along the lines of what you mean?

The FAQS page isn't up yet - it's still being created. As soon as it's up, we'll announce it to people. It'll be a great link for comments on articles & such for newbies and the uninformed.

Petrodus said.


He is wrong she can have every fact wrong and still win the debate with the public. Reagan was really good at that. I could listen to him, know that his facts were out of this world and still want to believe him. He was that good. Facts are not going to win over the public.

Yes you sent me a pdf of the facts page and it will help. That's what CASAA is good at presenting facts. I am not trying or taking about trying to duplicate what you do. Have you looked at that web page. I am trying to do what Reagan was able to do. Create that emotional appeal. It's what any good politician or advertiser does. It's that emotional appeal that wins people over. On the web you do that as much with pictures as words and that's where I am hung up right now. Finding good images. Anther thing is that by aggressive I also mean to trying smokers over to vaping. Numbers really matter in politics.

I haven't looked at the facebook page. I'll do that tomorrow. I do support CASAA and just made a donation recently.

 

[Vocalek]

Traver, the one page CASAA Position Statement that you can download from our site contradicts most of the lies being circulated by the ALA, AHA, ACS, and CFTK and cites references.

http://www.casaa.org/files/CASAA Position Statement.pdf

 

[cobaltblue]

But that's exactly how the really extreme anti-smoking group look at us, I see it every time there is any article written in our local paper that has to do with smokers and smoking bans. There are always those who leave the comments about how smokers are no better than illegal drug addicts with our addiction to nicotine. Even when you point out to them that caffeine is also an addictive drug they refuse to think of their addiction to that in the same light. As far as they are concerned anyone who smokes or uses any of the smokeless products are the scum of the earth because they are "nicotine addicts". Even when trying to explain to them that smokeless tobacco products are not harmful to people around the user, they are still anti-nicotine/tobacco to the most extreme degree of calling anyone who admits to using tobacco products some really hurtful names at times.

Months ago I started a thread about being careful how you label yourself. I was hoping PVers would start to see they need to change their verbage from "addiction/ADDICT" to something like "dependent" to decrease the negative labeling from the anti's.

The responses mainly ended up being, "Hi my name is ______ and I'm an addict." They seemed so proud, too.

Seems to me like a nice way to help the other side.

 

[Brewlady]

Traver, the one page CASAA Position Statement that you can download from our site contradicts most of the lies being circulated by the ALA, AHA, ACS, and CFTK and cites references.

http://www.casaa.org/files/CASAA Position Statement.pdf

Thanks for the link to this. The first sentence looks to me to need a bit of editing, unless I'm not reading it correctly

"... misleading information about electronic cigarettes publicized disseminated by organizations..."

 

[JohnKing]

Months ago I started a thread about being careful how you label yourself. I was hoping PVers would start to see they need to change their verbage from "addiction/ADDICT" to something like "dependent" to decrease the negative labeling from the anti's.

The responses mainly ended up being, "Hi my name is ______ and I'm an addict." They seemed so proud, too.

Seems to me like a nice way to help the other side.

I am not an addict, I am using nicotine in a safe way to prevent Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Tourette's and ulcerative colitis. I also appreciate my attention span.

Nicotine Benefits

 

[cobaltblue]

**********

 

[sherid]

These two graphics are interesting. They show all deaths from 1967 when half the population smoked and now. You can draw many conclusions from this.
Graphic: What is killing us? 2007


Graphic: What is killing us? 2007 | Graphics | National Post

Graphic: What is killing us? 1967


Graphic: What is killing us? 1967 | Graphics | National Post

 

[JohnKing]

Let's try this:

Nicotine is a naturally occurring substance found in tobacco, tomatoes and other leafy vegetables. This natural substance provides significant health benefits when taken in extract form via gum, patches and personal vaporizers. A metered dosage of nicotine has been proven to prevent Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Tourette's and ulcerative colitis. In addition, studies have shown that nicotine users function at a higher cognitive level than their non-nicotine counterparts, employees with a higher level of alertness have been found to have fewer work related accidents, increased productivity and tend to be less depressed, making them far more desirable as employees than non-nicotine users.

Although it may seem unfair to non-nicotine users, research has proven that nicotine users have a significant edge in quality of life issues and a competitive edge in the workplace.

Some famous nicotine users are John Boehner, Speaker of the House and Barack Obama, President of The United States.

 

[sherid]

Months ago I started a thread about being careful how you label yourself. I was hoping PVers would start to see they need to change their verbage from "addiction/ADDICT" to something like "dependent" to decrease the negative labeling from the anti's.

The responses mainly ended up being, "Hi my name is ______ and I'm an addict." They seemed so proud, too.

Seems to me like a nice way to help the other side.

It is disturbing that so many vapers still don't get that the anti-smokers are the enemy. It is not about vaping. It is about anything that resembles smoking. The two battles are exactly the same, and until vapers stop deluding themselves, distancing themselves from smokers, and trying to win approval from the anti-smokers; the battle against vaping is guaranteed lost to the anti-smokers. THEY are the enemy.

 

[MoonRose]

Let's try this:

Nicotine is a naturally occurring substance found in tobacco, tomatoes and other leafy vegetables. This natural substance provides significant health benefits when taken in extract form via gum, patches and personal vaporizers. A metered dosage of nicotine has been proven to prevent Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Tourette's and ulcerative colitis. In addition, studies have shown that nicotine users function at a higher cognitive level than their non-nicotine counterparts, employees with a higher level of alertness have been found to have fewer work related accidents, increased productivity and tend to be less depressed, making them far more desirable as employees than non-nicotine users.

Although it may seem unfair to non-nicotine users, research has proven that nicotine users have a significant edge in quality of life issues and a competitive edge in the workplace.

Now this I like ... but let's make sure that we do make it clear that we are talking about nicotine obtained from non-burning sources as it is the smoke itself that causes most health problems for those who do smoke and possibly for those around them.

 

[throatkick]

Perhaps we need to do side by side comparisons of the effects of both nicotine and caffeine on the body. Making sure of course to state that we are talking not about cigarette smoking but the use of smokeless tobacco products and PV's. Somehow we will find a way to get people to understand that it's not nicotine that is the problem, it's the actual smoke that causes all the problems. Of course it would help if the surgeon general would get her facts straight too, for someone who should know better, she seems to have succumed to following meekly along with the rest of the sheeple over what nicotine does or does not do.

What and have caffeine seized too?

 

[MoonRose]

These two graphics are interesting. They show all deaths from 1967 when half the population smoked and now. You can draw many conclusions from this.
Graphic: What is killing us? 2007


Graphic: What is killing us? 2007 | Graphics | National Post

Graphic: What is killing us? 1967


Graphic: What is killing us? 1967 | Graphics | National Post

Well, well, well, it does appear that the numbers are almost exactly the same percentage wise.