FDA to regulate e-cig as tobacco

[GregH]

Sure - if we lived in a vacuum and no one was advocating for e-cigs.

.....

Give us a little freaking credit??

And if one more person makes an ignorant, uneducated comment about e-cigarettes and the Pact Act, I will REALLY lose it! Read the damn thing and stop making assumptions!

/rant

I wish the new "Like" feature would let me "Like" that a few more times.

 

[Secti0n31]

Thank you for the positive comments guys - you don't know how invaluable your support has been over the past years. This activism gig is often thankless, time-consuming work and knowing we have people like you behind us lifts us back up and motivates us to keep going. We couldn't do it without you!

You're not the only CASAA supporter out there. I, for one, NEVER imagined myself getting off of "real" cigs, and then I make this freaking amazing discovery that leads to a magical gizmo that whoops the bejeezus out of "real" cigs and I'm fixated. Now I can't imagine being without.

Then I hear the FDA is butting in, then I hear the supreme court threw the FDA on its ..., then I hear the FDA is RETREATING, and now people are .....ing? What do they think this is? A tactical withdrawal? F no! this is a full blown "O noez! We Messed up! Let's get out with our dignity intact!" and people have the nerve to complain? yikes!

So you can see why I'm a little apprehensive? I'm trying to breed positivity! As are a good solid 20 people on this thread! Don't F with our MOJO!!! Lol. Ok, I'm done. Thanks Kristin for being another positive light on a minor little dark cloud.

 

[Levitas]

While I agree that people should refrain from outright spurting ignorant comments and classifying them as facts, i.e. Now that the FDA has control, we're screwed etc etc. I think it's also important that while defending your posistion in this debate to remember that we're not divided here. We're not battling one another, we've got too many other fronts to fight on to classify each other as "them" or "us". Because it's only "US" and "WE".

Some might have different views in this debate. Those who see it pessimistically aren't necassarily wrong. Though I can understand why some people don't want to hear the possible negative repercussions of this regulation of e-cigs, we have to be understanding and supportive to one another which ultimately means, respect. If someone comes in and makes a comment that is completely out of line or just blindly ignorant, don't attack them.... inform them. Respect my friends, we're a family...albeit distant family that may not get along or even see one another but we've ultimately all have the same goal in mind. Let us keep this in mind while discussion is being placed here.

Please don't interpret my saying this as an opprotunity to knock those who've worked so hard to see our rights as vapors upheld, nor am I specifically calling anyone out...because I am not. On the contrary, I am eternally grateful to those who fight our battle in my place while I am able to enjoy my delicious Malty Toffee and go about my daily events. I help by contributing what little money I can. I just want peace among us and I take a humanistic stand when I say, simply, let us respect one another.

 

[Caffusss]

They have differant flovors of nic gum....mint orange none are tobacco flavored, I relize the gum is marketed as a stop using nic product, but how many of us use it to get us by when we couldnt smoke or vape....I have "quit" using gum before many times...went back to smoking ...now I vape and I dont worry about quiting, becuase I honestly dont think I can, at least not without starting something eles up, that may be more harmful.

 

[kristin]

You're not the only CASAA supporter out there. Thanks Kristin for being another positive light on a minor little dark cloud.

I'm not certain, based on this comment, but you do know that I am actually one of CASAA's founding directors? Thanks, though - I've been impressed with your rational and obviously informed comments, too.

don't attack them.... inform them..

I think much of the frustration is coming out of the fact that people who have been VERY close to this case and on the front lines since nearly day one were trying to inform and explain and they are being either ignored, written off, told that they are just plain wrong or that they don't know what they are talking about by people who I personally have never seen discussing the case nor participating in the process over the past two years. Questions, claims and concerns were addressed several times (as they have been for entirety of this case,) yet post after post in this thread continued with the very same questions, claims and concerns - like drive by posting without anyone really reading what was being said. I admit it's a little insulting (here I'm speaking for those knowledgable folks trying to help earlier in the thread, like Elaine, Thad, Bill, etc.) and very frustrating, because if some of these naysayers were a little more involved in the activism over the past few years, I know they would already be more informed and probably see this event in a different light. It's difficult not to take it a little personally.

But you are right - we are all on the same side and should remain civil. I apologize if I offended anyone.

 

[TennDave]

Wow, what a thread...
Just can't wait until e-juice is "officially" regulated as a "tobacco product" and someone comes out with e-juice made solely from eggplants and potatoes...and challenges that.

 

[Secti0n31]

I'm not certain, based on this comment, but you do know that I am actually one of CASAA's founding directors? Thanks, though - I've been impressed with your rational and obviously informed comments, too.

Nope, not a damn clue, but thank you for the compliment, and I'm MORE than happy to support CASAA in any way I can. to any naysayers, trust me that NOTHING BAD CAN COME OF THIS RULING! yeah I know, more speculation, but what most people didn't realize is that this is EXACTLY what most of us wanted. Sorry, but that's how it is. Thanks, you're welcome, and have a GREAT weekend.

 

[kristin]

Nope, not a damn clue, but thank you for the compliment, and I'm MORE than happy to support CASAA in any way I can.

Well, in that case, I expect you to be at the CASAA member meetings from now on!

 

[Secti0n31]

Well, in that case, I expect you to be at the CASAA member meetings from now on!

I'm a lurker, but hey if you want me to speak out, I can do that. you've got my email and IM

 

[Grimloki]

I feel this thread has been really positive. Its helped me get a grasp on the issues, and caused me to think about what's happened as far as legislation goes.

I've been using e-cigs for all of one month, so not all of us have had the chance to participate in the process of fighting the good fight, and havn't. Some of us just got to the party late.

Hearing the albeit shrill and uninformed predictions of doom and gloom by certain folks, without any background or understanding of the process, and the thoughtful responses of people who have worked for this change has helped me to understand, and I assume the rest of the readers as well.

Also keep in mind the doom and gloom is a reaction many people are having, even if it isn't the right reaction to have in this case, is probably one shared by many people who aren't posting.. and seeing this debate is helping to inform a larger audience.

I think this is a great victory for e-cig users, and for people in general, and I applaud and appreciate everyone's efforts who have worked towards it (whoever you are).

 

[Grimloki]

Wow, what a thread...
Just can't wait until e-juice is "officially" regulated as a "tobacco product" and someone comes out with e-juice made solely from eggplants and potatoes...and challenges that.

Apparently doing so would mean the FDA could regulate it as a drug. Tobacco is something the FDA can't regulate as a drug,
despite their attempts to do so.

 

[jlarsen]

I don't see how you can say it will put vendors out of business if it is taxed jlarson, we the consumer will be paying those taxes not the vendors, the vendors will be the ones collecting those taxes from us the consumers and handing it over to the Feds & State, in no way will it hurt the vendor financially the way I see this, it will ad another line on their spreadsheet and another check they will have to cut to uncle Sam, that's about it. Just about everything is taxed in the retail world and always will be.

It is one of the basic principles of economics. If you want more of something, you subsidize it, if you want less, you tax it. When you tax something, people buy less, the market share is reduced, and marginal sellers are the ones forced out.

Not only that, but BT was apprehensive to get into the ecig game, with the FDA threatening to ban ecigs as drug delivery devices. Once they are a tobacco product, BT is free to jump into the game without worry, and you can bet that they will. That will further marginalize smaller vendors.

It is ridiculous to say that I ever implied that the people at CASAA are just going to roll over and let the FDA do whatever they want without a fight. The fact is if the FDA gives themselves the power to regulate a product that was never previously regulated, it is going to effect the market for that industry. This has been the case with every product that any government has ever regulated, especially anything that is age restricted and hit with a "sin tax".

Have the guts to admit what this is, a partial victory for the FDA, not a total defeat for them. Don't underestimate the power of an agency that can force changes on an industry as rich and powerful as big tobacco, especially in an era where tobacco and nicotine are completely demonized by the public and milked like a cash cow by government.

Personally, I'm kind of looking forward to the vaping supplies that might be rolled out by BT. Not that I trust BT, but who knows, an ejuice that tastes just like a Marlbor0 Menthol, and clearomizers that don't leak wouldn't be a bad thing, maybe they'll be the ones to make that happen now that their is a new tobacco product for their R&D departments to play with.

Even without regulation and taxation, consolidation of the ecig industry was bound to happen anyway, this might only speed it up a little.

 

[jlarsen]

Apparently doing so would mean the FDA could regulate it as a drug. Tobacco is something the FDA can't regulate as a drug,
despite their attempts to do so.

No, I think if the ejuice came from eggplants and potatoes, the FDA would just try to regulate it as a food...

I wonder how many truckloads of potatoes it would take to produce a 30ml bottle of ejuice?

 

[trying]

The first critcal date for E-cigarettes as tobacco products, July 2011.

"Establishing procedures for requesting an exemption to establish substantial equilalence."
If E-cigarettes are not consider substantially equivalent to an existing tobacco product marketed (not test marketed) prior to Feb. 2007. Then these will be the requirements to avoid efficacy test prior to being approved as a tobacco product.

 

[CthulhuSaves]

This may have been brought up already, so apologies if it has, but I'm really confused over a few points...

1. Despite calling it an "e-Cig," all the device really is is a tool. A delivery system, of sorts. In other words, it's a freakin' spoon with a battery strapped to its .... It does not natively have anything even remotely related to tobacco or nicotine in it. Fundamentally, it's no different than a water- or corn-cob-pipe. How can they regulate this? It quite literally makes no sense beyond initial assumptions based on appearance, not facts. (Guess we'll have to regulate BICs now, since they're just tobacco atomizers...)

2. e-Liquid doesn't have to have nicotine in it. In fact, more and more people seem to be moving towards buying big bottles of nic and PG/VG to mix with base flavors. So, why can't Juice shops continue to operate as they are now, and sell all the ingredients, individually as well as combined (typical e-Liquid, bottled or in carts/cartos) that simply has 0-nic? Nobody could regulate such a shop if nothing with nicotince in it was being sold, right? Which brings us to #3...

3. Nicotine. For those that want to sell it, either by the bottle for mixing or included in e-Liquid bottles, they'd simply have to have a tobacco license, right? And only sell to adults? Until I quit recently, I was smoking cigars (Backwoods: Black & Sweet). Practically lived on 'em. And y'know where I bought them? Every month I'd go to someplace like cigarsinternational (or any of the hundreds of other places online) and grab an entire month's supply, have it shipped to my house, and be done with it. So it's been done, it's still being done, and those guys will continue to sell tobacco products online. I don't see why online Vapor stores can't simply do the same, either unregulated and selling no-nic products and associated hardware, or getting a license and selling both nic/no-nic products and associated hardware.

The whole thing just seems to be an almost non-issue that already has everything in-place for easily governing it if the powers that be would stop making assumptions and just look at things for what they actually are. Seriously, I'm utterly baffled at all this. The only thing I would have expected is to see the big tobacco companies wanting to either destroy vaping, or take it over if they believed it could be the "new thing" that makes their current product obsolete. But instead it's just government lackies who are apparently overzealous and just trying to justify their jobs.

Well, that's how it looks, anyway.

 

[EDDIE D]

well said.

 

[Levitas]

I was smoking cigars (Backwoods: Black & Sweet). Practically lived on 'em.

Mmmm Gamey robust tobacco leaf

 

[GIMike]

I'm sure some got the feeling that I was one of the "doomsayers" and "uneducated" and am completely wrong for even mentioning the fact that I do have some fears of what is going to happen. I wasn't trying to put down anything anybody has done for us and will continue to do for us. We ARE one team. I agree with that whole heartidly. The reason I said some of the things I said is that I saw a lot of people saying "yay we won! things shall be great from now on!" As previously stated, I switched to e-cigs because I couldn't afford cigs anymore. I started smoking those crappy cigars made to look like cigs and they were making me feel even worse than the cigs (not to mention the smell). Now I've found a possible solution to my financial issues, but am worried that they could end up being as heavily taxed as regular cigarettes so that I'd have to quit my e-cig as well. Instead of people responding back with why this may or may not be, I got classified as a horrible person and how dare I ruin this for anybody, and that I should be absolutely grateful and stop being such a whiney..dog. Even those who have apparently done a lot of work for us have thrown their credentials in my face and said "look here, STOP thinking negative at all, THINGS WILL BE HAPPY AND RIGHT WITH THE WORLD NOW ACCEPT IT LIKE A GOOD SHEEP!!" Yeah, let me get right on that band wagon. So anyway, I'm not saying we haven't done great things. I'm not saying the FDA backing down is a bad thing at all. Just putting my fears out there from somebody who has been beaten down (thanks to the ex-wife) and ya'll just stomped on me like all the rest. Let's hope this won't throw off others from wanting to join this community.

 

[bassthumper]

I'm sure some got the feeling that I was one of the "doomsayers" and "uneducated" and am completely wrong for even mentioning the fact that I do have some fears of what is going to happen. I wasn't trying to put down anything anybody has done for us and will continue to do for us. We ARE one team. I agree with that whole heartidly. The reason I said some of the things I said is that I saw a lot of people saying "yay we won! things shall be great from now on!" As previously stated, I switched to e-cigs because I couldn't afford cigs anymore. I started smoking those crappy cigars made to look like cigs and they were making me feel even worse than the cigs (not to mention the smell). Now I've found a possible solution to my financial issues, but am worried that they could end up being as heavily taxed as regular cigarettes so that I'd have to quit my e-cig as well. Instead of people responding back with why this may or may not be, I got classified as a horrible person and how dare I ruin this for anybody, and that I should be absolutely grateful and stop being such a whiney..dog. Even those who have apparently done a lot of work for us have thrown their credentials in my face and said "look here, STOP thinking negative at all, THINGS WILL BE HAPPY AND RIGHT WITH THE WORLD NOW ACCEPT IT LIKE A GOOD SHEEP!!" Yeah, let me get right on that band wagon. So anyway, I'm not saying we haven't done great things. I'm not saying the FDA backing down is a bad thing at all. Just putting my fears out there from somebody who has been beaten down (thanks to the ex-wife) and ya'll just stomped on me like all the rest. Thanks hope this won't throw off others from wanting to join this community.

ah jeez.
Why are there so many of these posts lately?
I've never seen this many negative and mopey posts on ECF before....

 

[GIMike]

ah jeez.
Why are there so many of these posts lately?
I've never seen this many negative and mopey posts on ECF before....

This is exactly my point. I was just expressing my concerns. " Gee, what's wrong with you, why don't you just shut up??" This is a forum, are people not allowed to discuss their concerns or are we only allowed to speak only if we completely agree with everything the OP says?