Flavor Chasing...What is the goal?

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puddinman

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This is a very subjective thing you are asking. I've tasted juice on my tongue and it is very different from what I experience vaping. For what you describe, you might as well concoct a drink of some kind.
No. For me, "flavor chasing," simply means that I don't really care about clouds and focus more on equipment and juice that delivers the maximum flavor. I've used friend's equipment that will put out a ton of vapor but I barely taste anything. I used to use pens that did neither. Its that middle territory that I find myself in.
 

Ryedan

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For me the goal is to maximize flavor. What it means for you all depends on what you want from it.

I'm a middle of the road vaper, sometimes known as a Womprat around here ;). I've tried tootle puffing, high power, flavor chasing, and cloud chasing. None of it does much for me.

I know, I'm boring, but it works for me and for me that's all that counts :)
 

baaadjustin

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What exactly are we looking for when we are searching for our "ultimate" flavor experience?
Is the best atomizer one that delivers a vapor that tastes exactly like the juice straight out of the bottle, placed on our tongues?
I'm flavor getting when I take a puff I'm not chasing I'm getting I'm too out of shape to chase things
 

Thrasher

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I would think the title is obvious ( no sarcasm intended)

Its easier to understand the concept when you have tried many different types of devices.


A clearo was good, but you got a vivi nova. Suddenly your clearo is very lacking. So you decide to try a kayfun and start rebuilding, after using it you taste notes or it changed the juice a bit to actually taste better.it still tastes just like berrys, but maybe now it tastes like a lot of berries never noticed that blueberry before!.

I vape a traditional caramel, tastes like little bracks squares. In my 3 favorite devices it tastes like caramel. Like it should. But one is a light taste, the other is dark and rich.

But my fav tank omg! The flavor is so thick and creamy I chain vape it dry most of the times lol.

Flavor chasing is just that, to bring out, to find the best representation of what you are vaping.

If it says vanilla I want to taste vanilla the way I remember enjoying it..


You can find so many devices that have decent flavor but its flat, meaning hints and notes may not come out and you never know they are there., yea it may have a peach mango banana taste, but you may be missing a cream or a sweet , maybe even a spice note.

Flavor chasing is just finding the atty that really makes the juice you like shine its best.
 

Bitter Jeweler

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...focus more on equipment and juice that delivers the maximum flavor.

That's what I'm getting at, I guess. What is "maximum flavor"? If the vapor tastes exactly like the "raw" juice, is that maximum flavor?

Does juice benefit from "cooking" it with a coil to perform some Maillard magic, and create flavor that is different from its raw form?

I'm just curious about the science of flavor delivery here. I understand taste is subjective. Drippers claim RBA's give the best flavor. People say Subtank Mini's flavor is muted, while others rave about them. What is the comparison to all of this? If an atty delivers YOU a vapor that tastes like the raw juice, is that the holy grail?
 
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Thrasher

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While drippers can be flavor kings, this was more true before massive airflow took over.

All things being equal, the flavor is a balance of how much vapor is being infused with how much airflow.


You can take two drippers,,,,,, a good one would be the old nimbus,,,,, and say,,,, a magma.


You hit the nimbus and think ok thats tasty, so you then hit the magma And think yea, but that tastes even better.

Some of this is by design, some of the attys are really being designed to bring out more flavor, while others are following a standard design with their version of a topcap or center post etc.


And NO you dont want it to taste like the raw juice. You want it to taste like whats written on the bottle.
 

sanguinesolitude

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That's what I'm getting at, I guess. What is "maximum flavor"? If the vapor tastes exactly like the "raw" juice, is that maximum flavor?

Does juice benefit from "cooking" it with a coil to perform some Maillard magic, and create flavor that is different from its raw form?

I'm just curious about the science of flavor delivery here. I understand taste is subjective. Drippers claim RBA's give the best flavor. People say Subtank Mini's flavor is muted, while others rave about them. What is the comparison to all of this? If an atty delivers YOU a vapor that tastes like the raw juice, is that the holy grail?
The way i see it, flavor of the vaporized mist should not taste exactly like the juice. In the same way i would imagine snorting a liquid does not smell like the vapor off said liquid. (not a great example i know)
Tasting my juice vs. tasting the vapor is completely different. By converting the juice into tiny droplets and introducing air and heat, you get more flavor out of it. Much like sniffing a scented oil, vs putting it on a heating element you get much more scent off the heated one. So i guess it's not all that simple.

I get more flavor out of a dripper than an rta, but i use rta's for convenience when not at home. I think the subtank mini gives good flavor, but the same juice in a dripper like the vertex is much more pronounced. I can taste subtleties that i don't get in my STM. I also get bigger clouds from an rda and i think the better flavor mostly comes from a higher density of juice vapor in your mouth. Also things like how tightly the tip concentrates the vapor over your tongue probably has an effect. I get more vapor but less flavor from a velocity rda than the vertex. So i guess there is more to it than that.

Tl:DR i have no idea
 

Bitter Jeweler

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Hmmm...see, using your scented oil analogy, I would argue that it is developed for heat to evaporate the oil, so some scent may be easily smelled at room temp, but some components may be brought out with heat. But the intent was for heat to be used.

But I think flavoring is different since juice is created using flavorings that are used in all kinds of foods both hot and cold. Juice creators are using food flavoring, not created for vaporizing. This is why I don't believe heat is required to maximize flavor. For food, typically, cold recipes will require more flavoring to get it to come across as intended, than warm recipes, or hot recipes.

Thanks for entertaining me with discussion, because I'm fascinated by this.

I had a juice that, in one tank, tasted like peach tea. I loved it. In another tank, it tastes like Mountain Dew. I hate it. This is why I'm fascinated by the flavor science of vaping. Juice creators formulate with intent. But that intent may never hit the customer because of the gear they use. Even if it's drip tip size. Which just adds to the craziness around this.
 

sanguinesolitude

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Hmmm...see, using your scented oil analogy, I would argue that it is developed for heat to evaporate the oil, so some scent may be easily smelled at room temp, but some components may be brought out with heat. But the intent was for heat to be used.

But I think flavoring is different since juice is created using flavorings that are used in all kinds of foods both hot and cold. Juice creators are using food flavoring, not created for vaporizing. This is why I don't believe heat is required to maximize flavor. For food, typically, cold recipes will require more flavoring to get it to come across as intended, than warm recipes, or hot recipes.

Thanks for entertaining me with discussion, because I'm fascinated by this.

I had a juice that, in one tank, tasted like peach tea. I loved it. In another tank, it tastes like Mountain Dew. I hate it. This is why I'm fascinated by the flavor science of vaping. Juice creators formulate with intent. But that intent may never hit the customer because of the gear they use. Even if it's drip tip size. Which just adds to the craziness around this.
It is interesting.
I diy make my own juice. And the flavor of the pg flavor extracts is quite unpleasant, too strong and astringent with the alcohol (i imagine) carrier. Even the diluted juices just don't taste very good with a strong somewhat stinging/bitter nicotine flavor.
but vaped they become heavenly. There is something going on with the atomization process.

i have noticed in rdas that conical topcaps tend to be more flavorful. such as in the vertex (my fave.) but i really can't say exactly what it is. Airflow, coil design, ohms, wattage, etc. all seem to play a role. And people have various preferences for flavor based on type of hit. For example a cloud chaser wants thick flavorful vapor, where a tootle puffer needs high flavor in lower vapor. builds and wattage will vary immensely, as will the vape experience. A tootle puffer trying to tootle puff on my velocity will barely get anything because they arent taking in enough. And i would blow a gasket trying to lung hit their kayfun v4.

it's all about finding that sweet spot for yourself.
 

baaadjustin

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That's what I'm getting at, I guess. What is "maximum flavor"? If the vapor tastes exactly like the "raw" juice, is that maximum flavor?

Does juice benefit from "cooking" it with a coil to perform some Maillard magic, and create flavor that is different from its raw form?

I'm just curious about the science of flavor delivery here. I understand taste is subjective. Drippers claim RBA's give the best flavor. People say Subtank Mini's flavor is muted, while others rave about them. What is the comparison to all of this? If an atty delivers YOU a vapor that tastes like the raw juice, is that the holy grail?
I'm with you I don't get why people call themselves flavor chasers or cloud chasers what is being chased exactly what it the end game to all this will you finally get that magical flavor you've yearned for will you finally blow that cloud to end all clouds...the mysteries of vaping
 
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puddinman

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By maximum flavor, I mean as much flavor as the juice can provide and as accurate to what the bottle describes. Try tasting some raw juice and it will become clear that raw juice taste isn't the goal. Raw juice, to me is bitter and way too sweet in most instances. IOW, it's frozen juice concentrate as opposed to prepared juice. Basically I want prepared juice mixed to a sweet spot that works for me -which may be different than for others. Too little water makes the juice too close to the concentrate and too much water is too diluted. So "flavor chasing," to me is akin to mixing the frozen juice with the perfect amount of water to make what I think is the best tasting juice.

If you don't mind another analogy, think of beer. How you serve beer matters. Was it draft or bottled? Ice cold or lukewarm? Did it get too foamy? Was it stored too long? All those things impact flavor. Vaping has its little tweaks as well.
 

Bitter Jeweler

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@sanguinesolitude, using puddinman's analogy (which I think is quite good), all the components are in the juice, and atomizing it dilutes it to the "proper" level, is kinda what you are saying.

But using the the Fruit juice concentrate analogy, you could still say you can taste the concentrate and have a pretty clear idea what it will taste like when reconstituted. The same could be said of concentrated soup, which is also cooked. You can taste the condensed soup, and you have a good idea what the diluted cooked soup will taste like. Heating it doesn't bring out additional flavors, for the most part. The same could be said for powdered hot chocolate, instant iced tea, Kraft powdered cheese sauce, cookie dough...etc.

My argument is that heating the ejuice doesn't magically provide a reaction that radically changes the flavor. Like, sugars aren't being carmalized or anything. There is no Maillard reaction, because we don't have amino acids or proteins to break down.

It's really interesting to me that, like @sanguinesolitude suggests, chamber shape, drip tip diameter, airflow, how the air flows, and I guess even wick efficiency effect the flavor more. At first I couldn't believe that to be true.

It's interesting to me that my magma clone wasn't any better than my STM, but the nautilus mini delivered better flavor than the latter two, but little vapor. But not with every flavor. I've been trying atty after atty chasing the ideal flavor. But I'm trying to quantify what that is. It's more than what "you" think tastes best. It's also how the flavor is intended to be perceived. Like, it's subjective to say "this chocolate cookie juice is really good", because you like the chocolate flavor, but you never taste the cookie component.
 
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sparkky1

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The Marquis / Aeolus does come to mind but you have to put into aspect the measure of wattage for each different flavor does have an affect to start to mute, airflow and chamber size will dictate or disguise flavor as to will the single / dual coil lower / higher ohm builds / top airflow also.
We are talking about a safer form of smoking not eating or drinking ?
 
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