FlavourArt to remove all Diacetyl from their flavorings

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Edwv30

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I received an email from Flavourart this morning stating that Diacetyl will be removed from all of their flavorings. They also said they will not be replacing Diacetyl with Acetyl Propionyl or similar ketones. This is great news! I will be looking forward to the new formulation(s) along with the testing FSUSA has promised.
 
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shanagan

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Thank goodness.

Originally Posted by mauisun
ahhh yes finally a voice of reason. And what I have been trying to point out for a long time. no one has done anything other then scream about levels, but we are talking about levels so low that even our government, as scary as that is, says it is so low to be below a level that can be scientifically decided as bad.
I am a person of science. Give me pure hard written fact that a certain level is deadly and I will perk up. Give me papers that a rat somewhere was given huge doses and it looks like the rat has issues, we all know about those experiments...

I'm sorry, what? There is no known PEL for diacetyl, David. None. That means "our government" says there is no known safe exposure limit.

It's a good thing Max from FlavourArt decided to start removing it from the flavors you use, at any rate.
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ETA The rest of the story, as they say.
 
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rogerdugans

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Thank goodness.



I'm sorry, what? There is no known PEL for diacetyl, David. None. That means "our government" says there is no known safe exposure limit.

It's a good thing Max from FlavourArt decided to start removing it from the flavors you use, at any rate.
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ETA The rest of the story, as they say.


And perhaps this clarification from another thread is relevant?
From another thread said:
Actually, there is no PEL because the government is slow in seeing dangers with Diacetyl. The FDA still considers Diacetyl to be safe. That means "our government" says there is no known UNsafe exposure limit. I know, they hate e-cigs but love Diacetyl. Go figure! The only government agency that is really doing anything about Diacetyl is OSHA. Although, the House of Representatives are starting to force measures.


Please don't misunderstand me- I would very much like to know more about what is going into the juice I inhale.

I do NOT want to replace one bad chemical with something that may be worse, however.
 

rogerdugans

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I am NOT attempting to be a PITA although I expect I am succeeding.

From OSHA Chemical Sampling Information: Diacetyl
Notes:

1. No PEL or IDLH has been established. One of four rats died after a 6-hour exposure to vapors from heated (55°C) artificial butter flavoring containing 285 ppm diacetyl (~64% of total VOCs), but no deaths occurred among groups of six rats exposed to 203 ppm diacetyl (~68% of total VOCs) or 352 ppm diacetyl (~61% of total VOCs) (Hubbs et al., 2002).
2. A cause-effect relationship between diacetyl and bronchiolitis obliterans is difficult to assess because of mean diacetyl exposure levels ranging over four orders of magnitude for workplaces with affected individuals. In addition, food-processing and flavor-manufacturing employees with this lung disease were exposed to other volatile agents (CDC, 2007; Kanwal et al., 2006; Kreiss et al., 2002; Kullman et al., 2005; Lockey et al., 2002; NIOSH 2004, 2006).
3. Diacetyl is known to react with the amino acid arginine in proteins (Riordan, 1979) and inhibits enzymes that are important for protecting cells from oxidative damage, such as superoxide dismutase (Borders et al., 1985) and glutathione reductase (Boggaram and Mannervik, 1982) and glyoxalase I (Lupidi et al., 2001).
4.Diacetyl is metabolized to acetoin by diacetyl reductase, an ubiquitous enzyme that is uncompetitively inhibited by butyric acid (Nakagawa et al., 2002). Butyric acid is found along with diacetyl in some butter flavoring mixtures (Hubbs et al., 2002).

There may well be more recent research that I have not found, of course.
 

SimpleSins

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The most recent OSHA report seems to state that the level in the factories was much lower than that. I think if you research some of the myriad links to Hubbs and lots of others, difference in mice anatomy is believed to factor in as to where the damage occurs- they have a longer respiratory tract that humans do, so a lot of the tissue damage occurred in the nose and throat, whereas with our shorter one the diacetyl would make it down into the lung. If they have the links at the bottom of that page you listed, taking a look at some of the studies makes for some interesting reading.

Occupational Exposure to Flavoring Substances: Health Effects and Hazard Control

ETA: And apparently it is a well-enough founded belief that it is an unneeded hazard that the American flavour makers have removed it, and now FA is in the process of removing it from theirs- which considering the added expense this will incur, you know they wouldn't be doing it just on a whim.
 

shanagan

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I am NOT attempting to be a PITA although I expect I am succeeding.

From OSHA Chemical Sampling Information: Diacetyl


There may well be more recent research that I have not found, of course.

There've been further studies, but the point in #1 remains - No PEL has been established.

This also addresses the same issue: Safety and Health Information Bulletin - Respiratory Disease Among Employees in Microwave Popcorn Processing Plants

But, we seem to be agreeing all the way through, so I'm not sure why you'd think you're being a pita.
 

rogerdugans

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Basically, I am just worried about what is going to be used NEXT, and that it will be used without testing of any sort.

As for being a pita- well, since I am happy to know more about what is going IN (which is due at least in part to people who asked the questions in the first place) but not sure if I am happy about diacetyl coming out without knowing what is going In next.... perhaps I am not posting as happily as many would like. ;)
 

shanagan

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Interesting news now people won't have to cross check multiple lists to find out if the flavorart juice they are vaping is potentially carcinogenic. It is great to see the company proactively moving away from this stuff even though vaping isn't their primary audience.

Apparently diacetyl is under the gun right now with the FDA, as well (from a letter from the FDA to members of The Project on Scientific Knowledge and Public Policy at the George Washington University School of Public Health and Health Services):
This review will incorporate all the scientific evidence available to the agency and our assessment of its significance for the public health of consumers. …We also intend to address the issue of diacetyl-containing substitutes in our response. Although it is highly unusual for the FDA to contemplate food ingredient regulation on the basis of inhalation, we have not ruled out any regulatory option.
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What's interesting (telling?) about those excerpts is that they are specifically looking to the safety of diacetyl as an inhaled ingredient.
 

SimpleSins

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I wish I could say it was strictly for us, Golden, but I think there are issues with it in its other uses, too. There have been a couple of instances of trouble with it used in candy factories, so I think the US flavoring agent manufacturers were actually ahead of the game as far as diacetyl goes, figuring the FDA band could be too far down the road, so for the most part the biggest ones voluntarily got rid of it. And since the FDA is under a lot of pressure to remove it from the GRAS list, I speculate that FA figured it would soon enough be forced to make the change, and since it's something that takes a while to do, they've started making the move.
 

shanagan

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Basically, I am just worried about what is going to be used NEXT, and that it will be used without testing of any sort.

As for being a pita- well, since I am happy to know more about what is going IN (which is due at least in part to people who asked the questions in the first place) but not sure if I am happy about diacetyl coming out without knowing what is going In next.... perhaps I am not posting as happily as many would like. ;)

The devil you know versus the devil you don't, in other words? As I said in one of our pm's - I believe that we got rid of one devil (cigarettes) for a reason - and many of us jumped in without knowing this new devil then yet, either.
 
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