Ask Extract Companies to remove ACETOIN, ACETYL PROPIONYL
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Sounds more like working to get them under 5PPM by diluting rather then removing. And judging by other videos they buy in drums which would mean this is no small vendor. Most small vendors are buying fresh Nic as needed by liters or gallons and not by the drum or drums. I never even heard of this juice but I'd have to guestimate they make a pretty penny in annual revenue from ejuice.
Judging by the horrible quality of the website, looks of the store and fact they steal rather than pay for proper stock art. I would not believe much of what she says however I'm sure many will look past them being thieves just because they claim to be "Diacetyl and Acetyl Propionyl Free". Actually that's a misleading claim on the website too because she said in the video they were not 100% there yet. And they can't or wont pay for licensed stock images but they can splurge for a lab and all these never ending testing costs. In some other videos she makes a few claims that sound like a load of horse turd.
Beach Bum - The Vapor Bar
Hummingbird - The Vapor Bar
Peachy Pina Coolada - The Vapor Bar
Not to sound like I am against those who want Diacetyl free juice. But my point here is don't believe everything you are told. We already went through similar claims with flavor companies some of whom strait up lied about it. Now juice makers are going to run the same game because they have much to lose. I bet in the very near future many juice sellers will begin to market purely based on having the safest juice on the planet. And none of us can afford to test every juice out there to prove them wrong so I'll stick to DIY and decide exactly what goes in my juice.
Do you test your nic, PG, VG and flavorings? How do you know what is really in them?
Do you test your food and know what's really in the things you eat?
How much mercury is in your fish, how much exhaust emissions do you breathe daily, how many insect parts are in a typical bowl of cereal?
How Much Rodent Filth Does the FDA Allow? | Mental Floss
Bugging Out: Chocolate Allergy Linked to Roaches - ABC News
Without certain standards enforced by regulatory agencies things would be far worse....
What I do find amusing is the belief that DIY is the safest way to go, yet I am yet to hear about someone who DIYs who actually tests their ingredients...
They are an AEMSA member and have provided the test results on their website at Diacetyl Acetyl Propionyl
Unless you are accusing them of lying about the test results I do not see any reason to doubt that they are doing the right thing. I just placed my first order solely due to their posting of their test results and had great communication from the company including a phone call.
I don't accuse anyone of anything I just point out some facts you might find inconvenient. Judging by your posting history it looks like you ordered a few days ago. That was before I advised you of the fact they are THEIVES who steal images rather then pay for licensed stock. But I guess it's ok to do business with people who steal as long as they are AEMSA members and give great communication.
Hell the images I linked (a few of which I have made screenshots to protect myself) you can see for yourself clearly have someone else's copyright on them. Being those images are hosted on their server the least they could have done was crop away the evidence. And not only that it appears they had a juice called Sponge Bob which really anyone with a brain knows that is a trademarked name targeted at children. But again that's cool because AEMSA members can do no wrong since they do testing. I think AEMSA should care but I bet they care less if members steal and borrow trade names registered to others as long as they receive a check each month.
So let me ask are you an AEMSA member and what does that really mean to the consumer?
Is one batch in a hundred tested and how do you know flavoring batches that test low today wont be different tomorrow?
Are you going to retest yourself or just take their word because they have AEMSA printed on the bottle?
What if China begins to print AEMSA without permission will you verify or buy because it has a seal of approval?
Again they are at the mercy of what flavor companies and nic suppliers ship them just like every DIY'er. If someone slipped something in the nic they aren't even testing for nic purity themselves anyway. I guess we should not trust the flavor companies test results but we should trust that nicotine tests are reliable. Hell I bet they wont even tell you what nic company they use although one could probably figure it out from the bottles in the video. For all we know it's NicSelect but it matters not because they aren't going to tell you anymore then they want you to know.
And I saw some flavors on the shelves in one of their videos that for sure are not free of all the bad stuff. So maybe they reformulate a test batch to claim all is well and then just use smaller amounts of the bad stuff to use it up. Maybe instead they will dump it and throw away thousands of dollars but I doubt it. In a self regulating system there is no real regulation. It's simply a way to make yourself look good on paper and potentially make more money. You make a pledge to do the right things but where enough money is involved if you don't in most cases nobody will do anything about it.
So whatever they have all these flavors tested and show you one simple report today which proves nothing tomorrow. Next year it will be something else and we will have this discussion all over again until the day all flavoring is banned by the FDA. Once flavoring is banned you guys can cheer with joy and be so glad you managed to force your views upon everyone else. And the guys who formed the circle jerks will rule the industry for a bit while making unflavored juice at even greater profits. Then soon after everyone will be screaming because vaping will in the end be handed over or sell out to big tobacco. For now all the government really needs to do is sit back and let the industry destroy itself from the inside out.
Btw Walmart meat is to USDA standards and yet it's still the worst quality meat you can buy. I could slaughter cows on my back patio with a rusty chain saw that would exceed the quality of Walmart meat in taste and freshness.
You have very strong views and opinions and you do make some very valid points. I would like to here your opinion on how you think the industry should be regulated. How testing should be done and by who's rules. You've made a big effort to debate every ones opinion but I have not herd any opinions on how you think it should be done. You can't have a one sided debate it just doesn't hold validity without possible solutions.
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Wow! Just wow!
I am not going to get into an Internet war with you so this is a brief reply:
1 - I purchase from lots of vendors. Some claim to be free from diacetyl, acetoin and propional but do not provide test results, some that provide test results to prove that they are free and some that don't even mention it. I imagine that over time I will shift to only vendors who provide test results but who knows.
2 - Your issue with their artwork is irrelevant to me. I would never have noticed since I do not even look at images, just the text. They should fix this though.
3 - I do not expect any vendor to test each batch. Once they test the product once, I am satisfied. Hopefully they will test again at a later date to verify that nothing has changed.
4 - I do not think flavoring will be banned (and yes I have read all the current happenings). If it is eventually banned, time for DIY.
The whole point of pointing out this vendor is they are doing more than 90+% of the industry to try to give us a safer product. Are they perfect, no. Is their approach perfect, no. They are doing better than almost all of the other vendors that I have researched so that is why I placed an order. The first juice I sampled is fantastic by the way
No I just don't think a vendor can sit there and say "look we are one of the biggest and best our house is clean as a whistle" while doing other dirty things. When anyone can see it's all about money if it were not they would not be stealing images. I have spent over $10k on content licensing myself as I used to own over 200 domains a few years back. I struggled to afford it but I paid the money and I did not make anywhere near the money these guys must be making. So yeah content theft really makes me hot when it's so blatant.
Do I have a solution for regulating yes and no to be honest.
I do feel it needs to be an independent group not regulated and funded by members. When the very people who are funding and regulating the group propose the rules it's not always in our best interests. It seems to be setup more like a sort of lobby for members the way it appears to me. Looking back this very group went after Suicide Bunny and others yet I see no test results for many of their own members. I think the entire group should have their own house spotless before pointing fingers at other people. But then again like you I'm just a peon so nobody really gives a crap about my "opinion".
Now what do you think should testing by all members at least be mandated across the board (and posted on the site) before pointing fingers at someone outside the group?
And also do you think should I have the right to vape my dirty creams (two flavor lines maybe?) or should these people be advocating to the FDA what I should be able to vape?
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I agree with everything you just said and in a perfect world this would be ideal but unfortunately we do not live in a perfect world. In a perfect world manufactures would test and self regulate and be honest with it's consumers but we all know that money is the driving force behind business. An independent group you would think should be the answer but as most groups go they are influenced by industry demand and self interest often enticed by monetary kick backs or selfish motivation. So who can you trust these days, I would say you have to trust your gut, Educate yourself as best you can and make your purchases on your best judgment. The best weapon you have is your freedom to purchase from who ever you want so make purchases wisely.
As far as nobody really giving a crap about your "opinion". I give a crap about yours as well as everyone else’s opinion. It all matters and I just think if it were delivered a bit less combatively it would have more impact. We all disagree with one another’s opinions from time to time. Everyone has the right to there own opinion no matter how right or wrong it may be. Debate is healthy but if an agreeable consciences can not be reached we should all just agree to disagree and leave it at that.
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But again should I not have the right to buy and vape buttery flavors?
I mean all this political based bull is just about driving me to want to smoke again and say screw vaping. Many vendors claim they want to do this and that for our benefit or that of the vaping community. No the way I see it they mostly do what is beneficial to them and their profit margins. If vendors care about the industry they can simply create two lines of juice and advise against certain flavors. But it's easier to say our juice is free of blah blah and sell a bland custard rather than to say vape this flavor at your own risk as it may scare some people away. Vendors need to also educate about how many of the bad chemicals in flavors were also present in tobacco. This way smokers can decide if they want to replace something really bad with something slightly less harmful or go for maximum harm reduction.
Yea I know it seems like I am very combative here but all of this impacts me as much as the next guy. If this group manages to get it's way lots of vendors will be forced out and many people will go back to smoking guaranteed. Yes I think flavors should be marked as having bad stuff as should the juice. Labeling is definitely a good thing but dictating what I put in my body is my business.
I mean all this political based bull is just about driving me to want to smoke again and say screw vaping. Many vendors claim they want to do this and that for our benefit or that of the vaping community. No the way I see it they mostly do what is beneficial to them and their profit margins. If vendors care about the industry they can simply create two lines of juice and advise against certain flavors. But it's easier to say our juice is free of blah blah and sell a bland custard rather than to say vape this flavor at your own risk as it may scare some people away. Vendors need to also educate about how many of the bad chemicals in flavors were also present in tobacco. This way smokers can decide if they want to replace something really bad with something slightly less harmful or go for maximum harm reduction.
Yea I know it seems like I am very combative here but all of this impacts me as much as the next guy. If this group manages to get it's way lots of vendors will be forced out and many people will go back to smoking guaranteed. Yes I think flavors should be marked as having bad stuff as should the juice. Labeling is definitely a good thing but dictating what I put in my body is my business.
The answer to your question about what to vape and what not to vape is a very easy one to answer. You have the right to vape what ever you want to vape. Until legislation is enacted outlawing the sale of certain flavorings there is no one stopping you from ordering what you want to order.
If your asking me if it's right for others to regulate what I can and can't put into my body well that's a 2 edged sword. Some legislation may just save your life and other legislation is ment to drive profit. It's up to you to determine which is which and act accordingly. It all goes back to my last post.
" So who can you trust these days, I would say you have to trust your gut, Educate yourself as best you can and make your purchases on your best judgment. The best weapon you have is your freedom to purchase from who ever you want so make purchases wisely."
If your asking me if it's right for others to regulate what I can and can't put into my body well that's a 2 edged sword. Some legislation may just save your life and other legislation is ment to drive profit. It's up to you to determine which is which and act accordingly. It all goes back to my last post.
" So who can you trust these days, I would say you have to trust your gut, Educate yourself as best you can and make your purchases on your best judgment. The best weapon you have is your freedom to purchase from who ever you want so make purchases wisely."
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I am very new here and I dont understand all the interests/ groups etc that play a part in all this, but it just strikes me as if you get angry at vendors that try to create Diacetyl free juice...
There already are a number of vendors/ flavourvendors (TFA for example, but there are many more) which do exactly as you describe: they list the ingredients and when a flavour/ juice has a diketone in it, they tell you this.
That way you can make your own choice/ decision.
On the other hand there will be vendors/ manufacturers which will aim at those consumers which really want their juices tested for diacetyl and other diketones.
Why on earth would that be wrong?
In the end (imo) the debate shouldnt really be about what you are or arent allowed to vape but about disclosure. For me, I want my juice to be diacetyl and other diketones, free. But maybe you dont care so much.
Shouldn't we really talk about knowing which juice has certain diketons in it, and which doesnt, so we can make our own informed decision what to buy?
And yes for me the VaporBar is a good choice where to buy my juices, that they use pics on their website which theyre not entitled to, doesnt really bother me , my health however does.
That might sound selfish or something but I quit smoking and started vaping only because of health concerns.
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