Foulds says e-cigs won't help you quit smoking

[Brewster 59]

I didn't say that it doesn't deliver nicotine. If it delivers no nic, it isn't an Electronic Nicotine Inhaler (ENI as you called it), is it?

When I have a hard time sleeping, I vape some Sleepy Time Green Tea Lung juice (8mg/ml + melatonin & herbal blend)

A slight misunderstanding, I know I quoted you and probably shouldnt have. Dr E and Foulds are the ones who have claimed in the past that ENI doesnt deliver nic, I personally dont see how that is possible, perhaps the tests are skewed or they dont know how to use a PV. As for lower nic in the night time I guess I should start doing that.

 

[Bill77094]

It is becoming clear that these doctors truly are in bed with big pharmaceutical companies. How can their lack of acknowledgment of the sheer number of sudden quitters who are actively using the e-cigarette account for anything else?

They are busy dismissing the e-cigarette's effectiveness, while most likely avoiding coming to the ECF and taking a look at some of the polls .

The ECF may not provide scientific proof of the effectiveness of the e-cigarette, but long-time smokers suddenly becoming ex-smokers is pretty good anecdotal evidence that the e-cigarette works 1000 times better than any pharmacological treatment they have come up with.

 

[deewal]

It is becoming clear that these doctors truly are in bed with big pharmaceutical companies. How can their lack of acknowledgment of the sheer number of sudden quitters who are actively using the e-cigarette account for anything else?

They are busy dismissing the e-cigarette's effectiveness, while most likely avoiding coming to the ECF and taking a look at some of the polls .

Quite the opposite. While we have all been listening to "our friend" Prof E
He and the rest of his team have successfully infiltrated and "reaped" every page of the ECF for their own purposes which is to selectively go through each page and taking our own word's on all things the "Public" should be aware of and that is "modding, mixing our own juice, handling the deadly Nicotine" etc which is Bad. He has already used some of this evidence in an abstract of his study that he is going to present in Baltimore this week. One of his observations is

User postings on forums enable us to get a snapshot of the type of consumer-driven abuse that is currently taking place with the e-cigarettes.

"Trust me, Im your friend". Yeah ,sure you are Professor.

 

[curiousJan]

Quite the opposite. While we have all been listening to "our friend" Prof E
He and the rest of his team have successfully infiltrated and "reaped" every page of the ECF for their own purposes which is to selectively go through each page and taking our own word's on all things the "Public" should be aware of and that is "modding, mixing our own juice, handling the deadly Nicotine" etc which is Bad. He has already used some of this evidence in an abstract of his study that he is going to present in Baltimore this week. One of his observations is

"Trust me, Im your friend". Yeah ,sure you are Professor.

Granted I cannot say for sure, but I don't think Dr. E. is a panel member for that session. It's not "his session".

Now, I am not defending Dr. E. I haven't settled on where I believe his true colors lie; I have my opinions and I think it's on the darker edge of the spectrum wrt his interactions here and the ultimate repercussions of his research, but I try to be forever open-minded and will remain watchful.

I would really like to be a fly on the wall for that session, as I find it hard to believe that true scientists would approach internet forum postings as written-in-stone-Truth. Sarcasm, normal human exaggeration, or any number of other factors of misunderstanding come into play. I just don't know what they expect to achieve (other than furthering bias and political gain) ... think anyone will point out that all of these "abuses" have led to x adverse events (where x = 0)?

Jan

 

[ChipCurtis]

The ECF may not provide scientific proof of the effectiveness of the e-cigarette, but long-time smokers suddenly becoming ex-smokers is pretty good anecdotal evidence that the e-cigarette works 1000 times better than any pharmacological treatment they have come up with.

Which goes right to the very heart of this whole anti-ecig fuss in the media: Big Pharma is simply jealous that they didn't invent the e-cig. It's really that simple. If they were truly smart, they would be looking for ways to steal the patent instead of trying to fight an unstoppable social wave with every punitive legal tool at their disposal. Idiots they are.

 

[deewal]

Granted I cannot say for sure, but I don't think Dr. E. is a panel member for that session. It's not "his session".

Now, I am not defending Dr. E. I haven't settled on where I believe his true colors lie; I have my opinions and I think it's on the darker edge of the spectrum wrt his interactions here and the ultimate repercussions of his research, but I try to be forever open-minded and will remain watchful.

I would really like to be a fly on the wall for that session, as I find it hard to believe that true scientists would approach internet forum postings as written-in-stone-Truth. Sarcasm, normal human exaggeration, or any number of other factors of misunderstanding come into play. I just don't know what they expect to achieve (other than furthering bias and political gain) ... think anyone will point out that all of these "abuses" have led to x adverse events (where x = 0)?

Jan

Have you not read Bill Godshall's post on the From CNN.com Today thread ?

Since Eissenberg intentionally created the media circus (and a scientific circus), it is his ethical duty to at least try to clarify/correct the misinformation he spread and the confusion he has manufactured.

Eissenberg is presenting an abstract of his study at the SRNT conference (at a poster session) this week in Baltimore (sponsored by GSK, Pfizer, NIH, and ALF) that will be attended by 300-400 nicotine/tobacco researchers, most of whom are funded by drug companies, NIH and/or ALF.

Eissenberg's abstract is on page 115 of the SRNT program at:
http://www.srnt.org/meeting/2010/pdf/2010_Program.pdf

It repeats the same statements in his study and his statements to the news media (which contradict statements he's subsequently posted on this forum).

I would have thought that you had read that as you have posted on that thread yourself.

 

[Tom09]

deewal, all what has been pointed out by Jan is that the quote regarding ECF - which you attributed to Eissenberg - is not a quote from his contribution. That quote originates from an abstract submitted by another group (Sharma & O’Connor, page 46 abstract volume, here). Sure, they may share a mindset that is not overly positive regarding e-cigs - but that ECF quote had not been made by Eissenberg.
Hope this could help to clear up what appears to cause some confusion, here.

 

[DVap]

I did notice that Dr. Foulds did a post on Snus in the U.S., and he openly acknowledged the known harm reduction vs cigarettes. The notion of harm reduction is universally despised by the anti-tobacco cultists.

To my estimation, this places him into the valuable group of "can be reasoned with".

 

[Tom09]

I did notice that Dr. Foulds did a post on Snus in the U.S., and he openly acknowledged the known harm reduction vs cigarettes. The notion of harm reduction is universally despised by the anti-tobacco cultists.
To my estimation, this places him into the valuable group of "can be reasoned with".

Good point, DVap!

"We should not delay in allowing snus to compete with cigarettes for market share," Dr. Jonathan Foulds of the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey and Dr. Lynn Kozlowski of the University of Buffalo said in analyzing two studies published in The Lancet.
"The banning or exaggerated opposition to snus in cigarette-rife environments is not sound public health policy," they wrote.

Source: USA Today 2007

 

[lonercom]

Read the abstract from Dr. E. It's the original release and did not include his error correction regarding the nicotine strength of one of the cartriges.

Also read the Sharma & O'Connor extract. Nothing new there either. However I did think that the fact that this study is listed as unfunded is interesting and wonder if the presentation is a pitch for funding.

E cigarettes are also mentioned in 2 other symposiums:

SYM-3 on Page 4 discussing "NEW AND EMERGING TOBACCO PRODUCTS AND TOBACCO SUBSTITUTES: ELECTRONIC NICOTINE DELIVERY SYSTEMS ("ENDS"), SNUS, AND LITTLE CIGARS AND CIGARILLOS" "The FDA is beginning to assess the safety of ENDS. Manufacturers have not yet complied with FDA regulatory requirements and have claimed their products are exempt; thus there is no full disclosure of ingredients; there is little data on human exposures or health effects; and marketing claims and uses have not been studied"

POS 1-19 Page 47 "BUILDING A NATIONAL SURVEILLANCE INFRASTRUCTURE FOR NEW SMOKELESS TOBACCO AND NICOTINE PRODUCTS"

 

[Tom09]

Read the abstract from Dr. E. It's the original release and did not include his error correction regarding the nicotine strength of one of the cartriges.

Conference abstracts are submitted several months before the meeting takes place. There is no chance that one could expect to find a recent correction in an actually months-old abstract. That being said, there can be no doubt that all the US contributions at the SRNT conference seem overly motivated to exhibit their hostility towards e-cigs. Which should be telling about the climate in that community.

 

[jennlsnoopy]

I smoked analogs for 13 years and never could bring myself to quit. I enjoyed smoking too much, even though I knew it was bad for me and I was coughing all the time (i'm only 29). The day I got my first PV I quit and haven't smoked an analog since. Now I don't really cough at all and can breath much better. It will be 6 months for me on Sunday. Yay!!!

 

[Adpeig]

i've smoked for around 10 years. I've tried the patch the gum cold turkey and just simply cutting down. NONE of them worked.

Once i recived my joye 510 i have not touched an anolog. Keep in mind though I really really wanted to quit for my 1 year old son. And this wasan't just a new toy for me and relize i didn't want a cig anymore.

So in my personal exp this really can work if you want to quit. And if your just fooling yourself and don't really want to quit. then I say it might cut down your smoke but it won't make you quit

 

[Adpeig]

i've smoked for around 10 years. I've tried the patch the gum cold turkey and just simply cutting down. NONE of them worked.

Once i recived my joye 510 i have not touched an anolog. Keep in mind though I really really wanted to quit for my 1 year old son. And this wasan't just a new toy for me and relize i didn't want a cig anymore.

So in my personal exp this really can work if you want to quit. And if your just fooling yourself and don't really want to quit. then I say it might cut down your smoke but it won't make you quit

addition I have been smoke free for 2 weeks now

 

[DC2]

So in my personal exp this really can work if you want to quit. And if your just fooling yourself and don't really want to quit. then I say it might cut down your smoke but it won't make you quit

Actually, there have been a LOT of people who swear up and down they never intended to quit, and wound up quitting accidentally. Those are my favorite stories out of all the stories.

 

[rothenbj]

Actually, there have been a LOT of people who swear up and down they never intended to quit, and wound up quitting accidentally. Those are my favorite stories out of all the stories.

I actually only started vaping because of my GF. She heard about them and wanted to try to quit and I was tired of hacking away at night from my 2-3 pack habit. Of course I bought the wrong PV right away. It helped but it wasn't until I found this site that I found the 510.

That got me down to a half dozen cigs a day and figured that was good enough. Unlike a lot of people on here, I really didn't want to vape constantly, just keep my smoking down. Then reading on here all the people that totally quit, I told myself I could too.
That's when I got frustrated.

I just couldn't vape every time I had a smoke urge, I tried but needed that smoke. So I had a cigarette. Over the seven months I've been vaping, I started getting lazy and frustrated by everyone's success. I slowly worked my way up to 3/4 pack and I knew this was going in the wrong direction.

That's when one of TB'S posts hit me- snus. I ordered a starter set of tins (or whatever their called), then while waiting found Camels. Bought a can of that and have not looked back.

That stuff was just enough to take the edge off, for me, to get over those times "I just NEED a cigarette". Three or four portions of a fairly mild snus at those times and I'm good.

Going on 10 days and I know I'm good. I'm getting the analog thought only occasionally and of the PV doesn't take it out, I'll choose a portion and ten minutes later I'm good.

I'll take my time and work on the nic level in the PV.
43 years later, I'm a non-smoker.

 

[(So) Jersey Girl]

Actually, there have been a LOT of people who swear up and down they never intended to quit, and wound up quitting accidentally. Those are my favorite stories out of all the stories.

Add me to this list. I only became interested in ecigs because, @ $7.00+ a pack here in Jersey, I could save a ton of money and because I could "smoke" around my very anti smoking family without it bothering them. I wasn't even aware these things existed until I bought my first one at a home show 5 weeks ago. I didn't stop analogs completely at first, but am going on 3 weeks analog free. And all of my loved ones think this GREAT and have been very encouraging.

 

[NCC]

Actually, there have been a LOT of people who swear up and down they never intended to quit, and wound up quitting accidentally. Those are my favorite stories out of all the stories.

I am one of them. I bought my first PV out of my interest in gadgets, with no plans to quit. I dropped a 35 year habit, much to my own SHOCK.

 

[Vocalek]

I smoked analogs for 13 years and never could bring myself to quit. I enjoyed smoking too much, even though I knew it was bad for me and I was coughing all the time (i'm only 29). The day I got my first PV I quit and haven't smoked an analog since. Now I don't really cough at all and can breath much better. It will be 6 months for me on Sunday. Yay!!!

That's definitely a milestone!