From Newsweek writer re. BAT Vype e-cigarette

[Susan~S]

I'd put money on the answers to those two being no and no.

I agree with you BUT I'm not going to assume anything. Want all my ducks in a row BEFORE I post a reply to Simon. That's how I like to roll.

I forgot to ask what is the ohm of the coil and what wicking material do they use in the coils.

 

[djsvapour]

People in this forum are almost all declared vapers, who won't be the target market for Vype.

This is exactly the point really. Asking about Vype when 95% of the people on this forum are glad to see the back of tobacco company products (tobacco or e-cig) is not going to generate much dispassionate discussion.

Vype will sell, but how long their day in the sun lasts is hard to say. I know people who have tried them (the cig-a-like) and ALL of those people still smoke. They are a tobacco company's wet dream. A customer that spends £8.50 on their 20 cigs + £5.99 on their disposable "vanity e-cig" to use at work and is increasing their dependence on Nicotine. It's a very ugly scenario.

Now, along comes a product which on the surface looks like BAT have entered the "real e-cig" market. But is it a real e-cig?
Can you realistically vape 2 or 3 (or even 4 or 5) milliliters a day on one of the these? Not a chance. You'd need to have it plugged to your mouth 16 hours a day.
It would also require the user to buy so many refills, it hardly bears thinking about.

 

[Simon Akam]

Folks, thanks again for your very interesting points, really appreciated.

A few thoughts from my side - it seems that amongst users here there is a probably a genuine appetite for a straightforward, simple vaping device, but also a scepticism that an offering like the Vype is that device yet. (let me know if you feel I'm misreading the sentiments posted here). My sense, admittedly as a non-smoker/vaper, is that there is going to be significant tranche of people who are never going to want to be messing around with building/rebuilding devices/changing coils etc. As an analogy think of the number of people who drive as opposed to those who have even a basic understanding of auto mechanics. Are there alternative, simple, plug in and play third generation vaping options available yet? Who else is in on that market yet?

The complexity of current and ex-smokers relationship to/with Big Tobacco is also clearly important here: I'd be interested to hear more on that.

Any thoughts too on PMI's iQos product or Imperial's Jai? I was in Amsterdam last week to interview Hon Lik, now working for Imperial/Fontem Ventures, and they showed me the Jai then. Likewise had heard about iQos from PMI before making BAT the major focus of my story.

Also, a procedural point. I'd be keen to quote some of the response here in my piece. I can potentially do this under forum handles, but as with any piece of journalism it will be stronger if real names are used. Are there posters who have contributed so far who would be happy to let me use their real names? Send me a private message rather than on the open forum if that's preferable.

I will put a query into BAT regarding voltage etc.

Rgds,

Simon

 

[Shirtbloke]

Just tried to send you a PM and got the message.....Simon Akam has chosen not to receive private messages or may not be allowed to receive private messages. Therefore you may not send your message to him/her.

I suspect it's because you haven't got your 5 new member posts in yet.

 

[djsvapour]

My sense, admittedly as a non-smoker/vaper, is that there is going to be significant tranche of people who are never going to want to be messing around with building/rebuilding devices/changing coils etc. As an analogy think of the number of people who drive as opposed to those who have even a basic understanding of auto mechanics. Are there alternative, simple, plug in and play third generation vaping options available yet? Who else is in on that market yet?

Disregarding discussion about fully rebuilding stuff (I do some, but not all).... it's amazing how many people faced with the simple trade off of disposable refills vs refillable tanks with changable atomizers, come to the conclusion that price pays an important issue here.

E-Lites vendors always claimed "our customers don't want to refill... this system suits them fine"

To vape 2ml of liquid a day using E-Lites was £3,200 per year.
To vape 2ml a day using refillable tanks (with liquid) was about £300 + a £5 tank every week or two. (call it £500).

We don't know the running costs of a Vype e-Pen, but it's going to be between those two numbers.

Vapestick are in on the single usage tank market, selling a product in Tesco for £8.99, promising 2.4ml of liquid and 600 puffs. Are people buying it? Who knows. The company who bought Vapestick for £42 million are currently within a whisker of going broke. The Share price has gone down from $20 to $0.05, which is about 3p to you and me.

A person using their Vapestick tank is going to be spending £1,600 a year on their e-cig refills. When somebody tells them they can be doing the same for £300, they will be incentivised... of course.

I suspect the running costs of Vype will be a minimum of £4+ per day, or the users will go back to smoking as the Nicotine withdrawal will be too much to bear.

..of course, let's not forget, there are half a million+ users of cig-a-like systems out there who pay through the nose and still smoke and blame themselves rather than the accept the reality of many of these e-cig systems. Nicolites, 10 motives, Blu... are all still selling cartridges (cartomizers) at a cost far, far above even the Vype e-Pen system. These are the "lost generation" of e-cig users. The ones who think e-cigs are rubbish and don't work. That's because these e-cigs ARE rubbish and don't work.

The entire world-wide communities of vapers (online) exist because those systems are generally terrible.
Vype don't need to 'corner' the market for products we use and enjoy. They will find their niche. If the product works, some people will stick with it.. other will inevitably find themselves googling "is Vype any good" (or similar) and then land on forums like this one, or many others.

 

[rolygate]

Hello,

My name is Simon Akam and I am a contributing editor at the European edition of Newsweek magazine.

Hi Simon.

You probably need to post your email, I suggest you do it like this:
simon[AT]whatever[DOT]com


You raise several interesting points.

1. Most vapers who manage to succesfully switch away from smoking aren't doing it with small devices, since in ecigs battery size is everything. Unless the technology changes, the minimum usable battery capacity is 650mAh, as in the smallest of the eGo type devices. Such a device will work for some but not all smokers, especially when used with a very high strength nicotine refill (as the transfer efficiency is poor with low-profile devices). This is why the refill strengths go up to 45mg (4.5%) for these smaller devices; users of modern open-system gear can successfully use 3mg strength as the efficiency is so much better (mechmods and high-power boxmods with RBAs).

You can probably work out how much better open systems are, if they are successful with 3mg and 6mg strength, than these closed system proprietary (and all low-profile devices) are when they need up to 45mg refills to work.

Smokers who start out with small devices often need something bigger and more efficient to make vaping work. So they either fail and revert to smoking, or are lucky and come across info that leads them to better gear. Mini ecigs (aka cigalikes) are OK for social smokers and light smokers, but the average smoker is probably at around 12 to 15 cigs a day and minis etc generally do not work for them. It requires a product that will deliver at least 30 - 50 mg of nicotine per day in the vapour, and plenty of vapour volume. More vaped nicotine is needed because smoked nicotine is potentiated by multiple additional compounds, such as all the other active alkaloids in tobacco and the MAOIs, and therefore 'works better'. Smoking is not all about the nicotine, no matter what you read.

2. Consumers prefer a wide choice because vaping is successful due to the choice - of the thousands of possible combinations of equopment and refill, most do not work for any given individual. If choice is restricted, success is restricted in proportion.

Closed systems like the Vype are designed to lock-in consumers, but vaping works by offering unlimited choice. It's like tea: if you could only buy green tea, loose, of a brand you didn't like the taste of - then instead of 50 million tea drinkers in the UK (or whatever) you'd have 25,000. An instant reduction of 99.5%. Tea is popular because of the choice - what you like doesn't suit me at all.

3. Medical licensing is a red herring. An ecig, as we know it, cannot be licensed. The MHRA have made it very clear that no current ecig can receive a pharmaceutical license no matter how much work is put into quality control or any other factor. What they require is a metered dose device, with a shut-off after a set number of puffs, that delivers a consistent dose no matter what user technique is employed. A consumer product cannot be turned into a medical product by a bit of tweaking and some more quality: it works in a different way. You cannot have a metered dose of coffee and auto shut-off by using a kettle and cup - but you can have it by using a fully-packaged machine. Costs are far higher and consumers will not like the result in any case. Part of medical licensing requirements are that the product must not be pleasant to use - you should probably think about this a little.

The MHRA will certainly license a product that may look like an ecig and may be sold as an ecig. It won't be an ecig though, it will be a repackaged asthma inhaler of some kind, and will appeal to consumers like an expensive and not very efficient enema does.

All these things are starter products for smokers who are not aware of the huge online communities and therefore what works far better and where to get it. They either fail or move up. The regulatory process is designed to remove that upgrade path.


Chris Price

Please quote any of this. Also see my resource site at E-Cigarette Politics for a more detailed explanation of the politics, the economic implications, and the role of the public health industry in protecting cigarette sales in order to benefit the pharmaceutical industry.

Twitter: @rolygate

 

[djsvapour]

Well, if Chris is commenting, that is good news.

I am intrigued on the direction an article on BAT products might head. The first Vype product was an obscenely priced vape stick that works for almost nobody and represents terrible value for money. My wife bought and tried this product (not inherently trusting my knowledge, but somehow thinking 45mg e-liquid (compared to 6mg or 12mg) would help her solve the conundrum of vaping on my kit but still craving nicotine). It didn't work.

What Chris, and I, and another many thousands of vapers know is that simply calculating the Nicotine Content in an e-cig and declaring it "equal" to x amount of cigarettes (puffs) is bogus science. If you want to serve 100 people with a fresh pineapple dessert, you need to establish how much YIELD you get from each pineapple and how much fruit you need to get a good dessert. Vype tell us (with the e-Pen) the liquid is 16mg and that's where the information ends. Puffs is useless....they might fool the naive user into thinking the product is going to do x,y, and z, but if those puffs are weak in vapour and potentially low in Nicotine, there are only two outcomes.
Either, the Nicotine yield will not allow the user to stop smoking or they will buy endless refills at huge cost. Both suit BAT... I'm sure

 

[rolygate]

Yep, the cigarette trade can't lose with ecigs.

When the regs start to bite, the market will be handed over to the tobacco industry. That suits everyone perfectly. If people then buy a lot of ecigs, that's fine for BT as they'll own the market. If people don't like their ecigs, that's also good as those people will go back to smoking.

It suits pharma well if ecigs are given to BT because BT are useless at providing the market with what it needs, compared to the independents. That regulatory situation also suits pharma as it means the good stuff is banned anyway, so there won't be any significant fall in smoking. Pharma needs smoking as it is a significant revenue generator for them.

It suits the public health industry because their pay depends on cigarette sales. The MSA funds, the tobacco tax revenues and pharma's drug sales pay public health's massive salaries. If BT gets ecigs then it's a win for public health because if the BT ecigs fail, it's back to situation normal: cigarette sales are safe. If ecigs sales look good, PH can wade in and scream about the evil tobacco industry finding a new way to hook kids, and get the tax on ecigs jacked up so high that ecig sales collapse. That way all the smokers go back to smoking and everyone is happy.

Ecigs are great for everyone, there's a new campaign for the public health industry, so they can justify their existence; and BT can help to kill ecigs by selling stuff that only works for smokers in the short term. Eventually ecigs fail, and all are happy. The independent ecig trade has been successfully killed off, and most of the vapers have been forced back to smoking. Pharma loves that, and suitably rewards all involved.

No one cares about the public anyway, they are just the suckers who foot the bill for everyone else's million dollar home and Jaguar. Their job is to pay high taxes, get sick and need expensive drugs, then die early and save everyone the biggest and most expensive bills of all: care of the elderly.

And best of all, the public keep on voting for the people who shaft them every which way. It's a winner.

 

[Simon Akam]

Hello, thanks again for these posts. As per previous email, my email is simon[dot]akam[at]gmail[dot]com. Keen to hear from people who would be willing to quoted by name.

Also a quick question; where would be an interesting example of an e-cigarette shop in London? I'm considering Vape Lab in Shoreditch or V-Revolution in Covent Garden. Looking to head down this pm so rapid suggestions would be great. Was planning to visit the boutique at Westfield Stratford but it appears that was just a temporarily pop up which has now closed.

Cheers,

Simon

 

[djsvapour]

Also a quick question; where would be an interesting example of an e-cigarette shop in London? I'm considering Vape Lab in Shoreditch or V-Revolution in Covent Garden. Looking to head down this pm so rapid suggestions would be great. Was planning to visit the boutique at Westfield Stratford but it appears that was just a temporarily pop up which has now closed.

I hope you have some fun and interesting discoveries at those two shops.

Without wishing to further muddy the waters, those two shops are kind of the 'Harrods' of e-cigs. Both are not an example of the cost many of us pay for equipment, so please don't draw the conclusion that what you see today is the general rule on e-cigs. V-revolution sells in prime London retail space and the prices are eye-watering (understandably so). Actually, I'll go further... please don't draw the conclusion that a £19.99 Vype e-Pen suddenly looks a 'winner' because two London shops want to charge you £100 for this and that. There are perfectly good e-cigs on sale elsewhere for £19.99.

This is getting interesting though.... I'm keen to follow the progress.

 

[SuperTaz]

Hi Simon and welcome! When I made that wonderful decision to quit smoking I ventured in a vape shop to see what vaping was all about. No conventional quit smoking aid ever helped me. After a lot of discussion and demonstrations from the clerk I was left with the choice between a device that looked like a cigarette and the Joyetech 510 T XL. Why would I want to stop smoking with something that looks just like a cigarette ? Kinda like a recovering alcoholic drinking fruit juice from a beer bottle. Although I have upgraded since then I still use my 510 at work as it and a spare batt fit nicely in my pocket. I will NEVER buy another product made by BT. Thank you.

 

[Shirtbloke]

Also we should not forget the profit margins here for the tobacco companies.

A pack of 20 cigarettes costing £8.47 will include taxes of £6.49 (link) which means less than £2 for raw materials, manufacture, distribution, and retailers profits.

The price of the Vype refills are £7.99 of which £1.60 will be VAT leaving £5.39 for raw materials, manufacture, distribution, and as they are selling online there will be no retailer margins.

This is a much better margin for the Tobacco companies - it's no wonder they're so keen to get into the ecig business.

 

[djsvapour]

Also we should not forget the profit margins here for the tobacco companies.

A pack of 20 cigarettes costing £8.47 will include taxes of £6.49 (link) which means less than £2 for raw materials, manufacture, distribution, and retailers profits.

The price of the Vype refills are £7.99 of which £1.60 will be VAT leaving £5.39 for raw materials, manufacture, distribution, and as they are selling online there will be no retailer margins.

This is a much better margin for the Tobacco companies - it's no wonder they're so keen to get into the ecig business.

The e-Pen is available in shops, but I take your point.

Back in the day, E-Lites were £7.99 for two refills. You couldn't even buy one, although some "unofficial" retailers split them. In fact, I know some retailers who gave their customers free ones as the price was the biggest con in the e-cig industry circa 2012.

Vype is just going to land it's business on exactly the same customer group. Blu (Lorillard tobacco) has taken over the shelves on many supermarkets, petrol stations, corner shops - presumably offering a better return for the retailler.

Sadly, the public will never equip themselves with the knowledge necessary to escape the clutches of whoever sits on the top of the e-cig pile.
There are a million UK users of these products who are still smoking.
Currently, BAT have nothing to lose whatever product they offer. They have the power and money to do what they like. The "moment" that will destroy us all will be when the UK "gold plates" the EU TPD 2016 and effectively outlaws anything but non-refillable regulated products. That is the moment BLU and VYPE walk in and can raise a few champagne glasses to their success. There will be no refilling. They will be no vaping for £2 a day. There will just be dual fuelling and/or going back to to smoking.

We know it's coming. BT know it's coming. The scene is set. The end game is BT and BP products only. One will be "medicinal" (BP) and the other a tightly regulated "consumer" product (BT).

... it won't be until 3 or 4 years later that the folk in Public Health see the trend back to smoking. You see, all this time that smoking rates have been dropping, they have declared progress in the war against tobacco smoking and associated illness/death.

e-cigs can save lives; almost everybody admits that, even ASH, for example.
e-cigs that are not good enough to quit tobacco only increase nicotine dependence and revenue for those that can afford to invest into the pie. (Pineapple pie?)

The only chance we have left is in legally challenging the TPD. Vapestick and E-Lites have already sold out to take their multi-millions. Intellicig has gone too.
Only Totally Wicked stands left (along with other members of ECITA) with any hope at all of beating the odds.

 

[Susan~S]

Success!

Vype has responded and answered ALL my questions with regards to the ePen. Kudos to them for getting back to me.

1. How large is the battery (in mAh)? 650 mAh
2. What is the voltage in the two different settings? 3v and 3.6v
3. What is the resistance of the coil (ohms)? 2.8±0.15 ohm
4. Are the wicks made of Silica? If not, what are they made of? Silica
5. Can the atomizer (the coils) be replaced when they no longer work or perform well? Each coil is inside each ePen cap which means it is replaced every time you finish an ePen cap.
6. How many mls of eliquid is in a cartridge? 1.5ml
7. Can I use my eliquid purchased at a vape shop to refill the cartridges? No

So based on the above numbers, here is the wattage at the two different settings on the ePen.

1. Lowest setting : 3.0v @ 2.8 ohm = 3.21 watts
2. Highest setting: 3.6v @ 2.8 ohm = 4.63 watts

Will gather all my thoughts and post again tomorrow. @DJSVapor, this may help you fine tune your cost numbers (should you wish) given you are in the UK and I'm not.

I would be curious to see how the numbers & performance of ePen stack up against Joyetech's eRoll.

PBusardo reviewed the eRoll and said is was a "Perfect solution for a specific type of smoker/vaper". That was 2 years ago.

 

[Simon Akam]

Thanks for the heads up, that is useful to know and I will bear that in mind.

A further query from my side. I'm working atm on a section of the story that will outline the evolution of e-cigs thus far: it will start from an interview I did last week with Hon Lik and will end with the widespread acquisition of e-cig manufacturers by Big Tobacco firms. I'll have perhaps a thousand words to spend in this section, so quite a lot of space. I'm keen to address the key waypoints in the development of the technology, notably in terms of products coming to market, arrival of second and third generation devices, and key events in the regulatory space in this period. Suggestions here would be very welcome. Likewise, I am keen to address some of the more technical questions here about yield, battery life etc but fundamentally need to be able to do this is a way a lay (ie. non technical) reader can understand. If you thoughts on the best way to structure a primer on those themes that would be good. Cheers, Simon

 

[djsvapour]

Thanks for the heads up, that is useful to know and I will bear that in mind.

A further query from my side. I'm working atm on a section of the story that will outline the evolution of e-cigs thus far: it will start from an interview I did last week with Hon Lik and will end with the widespread acquisition of e-cig manufacturers by Big Tobacco firms. I'll have perhaps a thousand words to spend in this section, so quite a lot of space. I'm keen to address the key waypoints in the development of the technology, notably in terms of products coming to market, arrival of second and third generation devices, and key events in the regulatory space in this period. Suggestions here would be very welcome. Likewise, I am keen to address some of the more technical questions here about yield, battery life etc but fundamentally need to be able to do this is a way a lay (ie. non technical) reader can understand. If you thoughts on the best way to structure a primer on those themes that would be good. Cheers, Simon

I'll think on these things... of course.

 

[Susan~S]

Simon, you now have 5 posts and in another hour you will be able to PM anyone you wish (the servers update at :25 past the hour).

You may find this helpful if you have specific questions regarding something someone has posted.

 

[LuNar]

Hey there Simon
I agree with Jwaterski. The cig-alike products are just not very effective. At least not for me. I think we all want a small device sleek device that can deliver decent amounts of vapor. As far as big tobacco... Times are changing. Technology is growing and it's time we look to a safer alterative to smoking. Even though smoking and vaping aren't %100 safe, I still believe vaping to be safer than smoking. It's time Big tobacco either starts to try to make a very safe as well as AFFORDABLE nicotine delivery system. I would like to see Big tobacco companies to start making their own e electric cigarette devices/mods/eliquids ect, I just hope they will be as safe as well as affordable to the hard working middle class.

I don't have any experience with Vype. I've never heard of them but I have an ipv mini and a Tugboat rda. Love them both very much. Since I've been using e cigs I've felt much better. I don't cough up mucus, I can breathe much easier than before, I can smell things now, and now I don't smell like an ashtray. Not to mention I have saved a good amount of cash since I quit smoking traditional cigarettes.

The price point of electric cigarettes, mods, tanks/rda's is pretty solid right now. Affordable enough to attract smokers who want to quit smoking. I fear a medicine license would dramatically increase the cost of these mods and devices, and perhaps even the elqiuid, to the point where it would be more affordable to just go back to smoking traditional cigarettes. THIS SCARES ME.

I've thought about trying the nicotine inhaler(I forgot what it is called.) but I heard that it cost a very pretty penny and it's not that effective. The thing about my current e cig set up is that it is very effective in delivering nicotine and It did not cost me too much cash. Also the eliquid I use is pretty easily affordable and in the long run it's cheaper than smoking cigarettes. Do you think a medicine license will dramatically increase the cost of all these ecig products?

Another great thing about eliquid I can get right now is the flavors. There is tobacco flavors, if that's what you want. Personally I've never really liked the taste of tobacco. There are lots of good fruity flavors and those are my favorite, they taste good and smell good. You can choose your level of nicotine you'd like as well. When I quit smoking cigarettes I vaped on 18mg eliquid. ( which I believe is 1.8%) Now I'm down to 6mg eliquid.(0.6%) I actually went all day yesterday and only used my e cig 3 times at the end of the day. I could not have gone that long without a real cigarette when I was smoking them.

I order my eliquid from Mtbakervapor.c o m
I can get a 236 bottle of blue berry for $33.99 and this will last me quiet a long while. I trust this company because It's gotten many good reviews, I believe they use quality pg/vg and quality liquid nicotine.

One more thing about pg and vg. There are people out there who are allergic to pg(propylene glycol.) When I looked at some of the cig-alikes I've tried not one of them has mentioned the exact amount of pg it uses. I'd like to see them come in varieties of 50pg/50vg as well as 30pg/70vg and even 100%vg(for those who either are allergic to pg or for those who just don't like pg.)
Of course it would be wise to illustrate how much nicotine is in the cig-alike cartridge as well. So to sum it all up It would be nice to have a label with all those ingredients, and amounts of these ingredients, listed.

I hope I helped.

 

[djsvapour]

Success!

Vype has responded and answered ALL my questions with regards to the ePen. Kudos to them for getting back to me.

1. How large is the battery (in mAh)? 650 mAh
2. What is the voltage in the two different settings? 3v and 3.6v
3. What is the resistance of the coil (ohms)? 2.8±0.15 ohm
4. Are the wicks made of Silica? If not, what are they made of? Silica
5. Can the atomizer (the coils) be replaced when they no longer work or perform well? Each coil is inside each ePen cap which means it is replaced every time you finish an ePen cap.
6. How many mls of eliquid is in a cartridge? 1.5ml
7. Can I use my eliquid purchased at a vape shop to refill the cartridges? No

So based on the above numbers, here is the wattage at the two different settings on the ePen.

1. Lowest setting : 3.0v @ 2.8 ohm = 3.21 watts
2. Highest setting: 3.6v @ 2.8 ohm = 4.63 watts

Will gather all my thoughts and post again tomorrow. @DJSVapor, this may help you fine tune your cost numbers (should you wish) given you are in the UK and I'm not.

Thank you Susan.

Initially, I am concerned. A 650mAh battery running at either 3.0v or 3.6 is most certainly NOT (100% NOT) into mod territory.
Cartomizers at around 2.8ohms, give or take the usual tolerances is not a good sign... I am pleased you did the maths for me on those watt outputs.

I'm going to address one or two things later, but initially, it looks a weak e-cig on paper.

Standard RN4081, 510, KR808 (cartomizer cig-a-likes) were 3.7v batteries with fast diminishing power. Products like Nicolites, E-Lites, 10 Motives all used 'refills' at about 3.0ohms creating, as you say, between 4 and 5 watts of power.

The eRoll used a 3.7v battery kept topped up with the PCC. You could buy 2.1ohm (i.i.r.c) atomizer heads for it. Those figures together make a 6.5 watt e-cig.

So - already, we have found some answers. It's going to be no improvement whatsoever on standard e-cig offerings in the UK.

The only encouraging news in the 1.5ml e-liquid capacity. The rest is quite dreadful.... really... it's not even going to match an Ego CE4 kit bought on a market stall.

Where we (I) go next is hard to quantify. It won't be vapourising the liquid very fast, so it'll be a *disappointing* vape for sure. Users are going to need 2+ refills a day if they are used to smoking a pack of regular strength cigarettes. 1 isn't going to do it.... it just isn't.

lots to ponder.... the word "optimism" doesn't exactly spring to mind.

Using the 'old' system of Nicotine yield per ml, I would estimate 1 refill will be somewhere around 7 to 9 cigarettes. Forget the puffs!!!

7-9 cigarettes in Nicotine is not exactly daylight robbery for £2.66... FAR FROM IT. The problem, as ever, is that if you make an e-cig so weak that it delivers 300 puffs for those 7-9 cigarettes, then one has to puff 30+ times per vape to get anywhere.

There's the issue. BAT will dispute this, just as E-Lites always did and all the other companies. Even if you emptied the refill and dripped the Nicotine part of it directly into your bloodstream and gave yourself 100% yield, that would be 1.6% (16mg) liquid x 1.5ml = 24mg. 24mg OF Nicotine is not 30 cigarettes.

Actually, Tobacco companies already know this. A pack of 20 cigarettes will often CONTAIN 150-220mg of Nicotine before you smoke them.

So - a pack of 20 has up to 220mg of Nicotine in it. A Vype e-Pen refill has 24mg of Nicotine in it. QED

See - it ain't rocket science.

 

[djsvapour]

OK... having thought about it (I know, my brain works fast...) these are the questions I would be asking BAT. In fact, BAT can invite me to visit them anytime they want. If all we have left in another year (2016 TPD) is Tobacco company products then I'm game to assist them as a confirmed vaper.

The e-Pen
1. The product looks good (bravo!) and will appeal to those not already using e-cigs or failed first time around with supermarket 'look-a-likes'
Given that the first Vype (disposable) used 4.5% (45mg) liquid and this was welcomed by many who understand the science behind e-cigs, what was the process that lead BAT to drop down to 2.7% (27mg) liquid in a product that, on paper, isn't a great deal more powerful?

2. How do BAT feel about offering a "pen" style e-cig that uses a battery and atomizer combination that might not even match products customers can already buy from Totally Wicked, JacVapour, Apollo, KiK et al. Vaping at 3 or 4 watts of power barely challenges the existing products by BLU, 10 Motives, Nicolites and E-Lites?

3. Guessing they aren't attempting to lure existing Vapers from standard high street kit onto Vype products, is it not the case that people who use e-cigs are by their nature curious about other products and will jump ship all too readily if what they are using seems low performance?

*wasn't it Tobacco companies who always said advertising wasn't about making new smokers, it was about people switching brands... what has changed?* (Not that I have any criticism of that approach to anything in business).

4. If a Tobacco company can see an "end game" where only they have the financial muscle to be left standing after the TPD 2016, could they ever branch out yet further into products that might be accepted by the experienced vaping community? Somehow, the e-Pen is just an eGo type e-cig which we've had for enough years to know it's not that good. OR? Maybe BAT have the technology and have already made something better?

Can they send me one? I'll pay £19.99 to CRUK if it makes then happy.