Those links were great so much info, thanks for sharing all that. Going to take it slower and simpler , not giving up yet!
Frustrated with diy
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I have not seen this mentioned.
FW is known for its weak flavors. Most of them require at least 15% as a starting place. However, some of their flavors are really strong. ie. Skittles. But I also use their bubblegum, spearmint, juicy fruit and they require loads of flavor to even taste them. So I would buy flavoring(same kind) from other vendors to mix in with for a layered effect and more full bodied flavor. Plus I didn't want to waste what I had already bought.
The very strongest flavor makers out there is FlavourArt. They require very low % as their starting places. And usually what they recommend is correct at least for my tastes.
I've not had to use any of my FW flavors above 8% for a single. Maybe for a snv single you might try 10-12% but it won't be good after 2 weeks that high imo. I enjoy FA but WF fruits are also very strong at low percentages. Flavorah is good to at lower % but their fruits aren't bright for me like FA and WF.
I haven't found commercial juice in general has a wow factor -- only certain ones. I started vaping on small tanks such as the EVOD and in that first year I found maybe half a dozen juices I loved. And guess what -- for small tanks like that I've only managed one DIY juice that can compete (laden with sweeteners), but I find most of those juices aren't as good in a different style of device. Then I started using a RDA and somewhat more power and while the going was slow at first, I don't know of anything as good as my DIYs for it, and commercial juices tend to seem overflavored. It favors less strongly flavored juices, especially ones where the flavoring seems to work with the flavor of PG and VG instead of overwhelming it. So, how I did it was more a clean break. Also, by using an RDA I can makes simply flavored juices and mix them in the atomizer on the fly, constantly adjusting the flavor.
When I first started mixing I used high flavor percentages (no sweeteners) and enjoyed them. Now just 3 months later I've cut my flavors by half. It is an interesting journey. Reminds me of trying every wire and style of coils when I first started wrapping my own.
Question about steeping. If I make a mix that requires lets say a 7 day steep, and I test vape 2ml right after its mixed, does that ruin the mix? Would a 7 day steeped juice that wasnt tested taste different? Just wondering if im messing up my mixes by trying a bit after its mixed and messing up the flavor %s because flavor molecules need time to become blended right? Even if mixed with a magnetic stirrer they would be all over the place and not blended?
I'm going to jump in with the people saying one shots. I'm using the Pazzo line from Nicotine River. 4 out of 5 of them taste better than anything I've mixed. It's a lot easier. And it's much, much cheaper. Take the tropical fruit mix (Ace) for example. It mixes at 5%. Compare that to recipes that mix at 15. And it costs a little over 5 bucks for 30 mL. For me it's cheaper, easier, faster and tastes better.
Honestly, commercial juice is generally highly flavored, and very sweet. As you mix you might find that your tastes change- I'm happy enough with 3-4% FLV Wild Melons these days- maybe 2% some days. As time goes on you tend to lower percentages and become more of a snob about it. And I rarely add pure sweetener because... shudder.
The thing is that when you start mixing you should ignore us snobs and our subtle recipes because what makes commercial juice pop is 20-30% flavoring and a lot of sweetener (try Cap super sweet. at 1-3%.) If you want that pop that's how you get that pop, and there's nothing wrong with that. What's important is that you're not smoking, and you're not spending close to a dollar per mill on commercial juice.
I have some very sweet highly flavored recipes somewhere. I'll look them up. Here's one I still like:
Banana Cream (LA) 2.00
Banana Cream (TPA) 2.00
Biscuit (INAWERA) 1.00
Caramel Candy (FW) 2.00
Peanut Butter (Flavorah) 1.00
Peanut Butter (TPA) 3.00
Sweet Coconut (Flavorah) 0.50
Vanilla Custard v1 (CAP) 4.00
I find this pretty crazy flavored, but if you want a commercial juice maybe up the LA banana to 4%, the FW CC to 4%, the Custard to 5-6%, and add 1-3% Cap super sweet. I'm guessing a bit about how to up the percentages and keep things balanced, but I bet that would make for a fine commercial juice with a bit of balancing. Steep for two weeks with that much custard though. Also, with some adjustments some RY4 might go well in this, but then steep for three weeks.
I have some very flavored berry / fruit recipes too that I'll see if I can find.
The thing is that when you start mixing you should ignore us snobs and our subtle recipes because what makes commercial juice pop is 20-30% flavoring and a lot of sweetener (try Cap super sweet. at 1-3%.) If you want that pop that's how you get that pop, and there's nothing wrong with that. What's important is that you're not smoking, and you're not spending close to a dollar per mill on commercial juice.
I have some very sweet highly flavored recipes somewhere. I'll look them up. Here's one I still like:
Banana Cream (LA) 2.00
Banana Cream (TPA) 2.00
Biscuit (INAWERA) 1.00
Caramel Candy (FW) 2.00
Peanut Butter (Flavorah) 1.00
Peanut Butter (TPA) 3.00
Sweet Coconut (Flavorah) 0.50
Vanilla Custard v1 (CAP) 4.00
I find this pretty crazy flavored, but if you want a commercial juice maybe up the LA banana to 4%, the FW CC to 4%, the Custard to 5-6%, and add 1-3% Cap super sweet. I'm guessing a bit about how to up the percentages and keep things balanced, but I bet that would make for a fine commercial juice with a bit of balancing. Steep for two weeks with that much custard though. Also, with some adjustments some RY4 might go well in this, but then steep for three weeks.
I have some very flavored berry / fruit recipes too that I'll see if I can find.
If the bottle of juice has been well mixed you are not changing anything if you pull a couple of mls for tasting. You would only change the balance if not mixed sufficiently. @ZenCloud79
I agree with Letitia. Removing a few mls for testing shouldn't interfere with the steeping process, as long as it's well mixed when you remove those few mls for testing.
What WILL interfere with the steeping process is if you find yourself disappointed with the mix an then add flavoring, as prior to a proper steep many juices (not all) will not taste good and the temptation can be to add more flavor. If you can't "resist" doing that, I would suggest waiting a little longer before tasting, or making some kind of "promise" to yourself that you won't add anything, no matter what. To make things more complex, some flavors taste better out of the gate, like berries and etc. So you may find yourself making for example a strawberry and cream flavor, well the strawberries will likely overpower the cream (custard, etc., those types of flavors) and you may think your recipe is unbalanced, and add more cream, only to find the cream notes "overpowering" later, after a reasonable steep time.
I do agree that some one shot flavors might be a good way to get started, as most can be shaken and vaped, and many of them are quite excellent as standalone flavors. That gives you the opportunity to vape "your" juices while you are waiting for other more complicated recipes to steep.
To add one step more of confusion, some flavors actually fade with long steeping times, like citrus. I have a one shot flavor (although I did add a few things) with some lemon in it and it was really best when I started vaping the flavor but over time that note started to fade, and I did add a little more lemon to "bump" it back to where it was.
These things all require time, trial and error, and while DIY can be infinitely complex, it can also be fairly simple. I think finding some one shots early on that you enjoy can possibly make the more "complicated" mixing go more smoothly as you taste, wait, taste, etc.
I tasted a lot early on, I do less tasting and more steeping with many of my mixes now that I have a general sense of "steep" time. I still need to do more tasting on occasion with some of my newer flavors, as each time I'm adding a new ingredient, I am "changing" what may happen, and when. I had been leaving my juices to steep for at least a month before trying them, but know that I know more about the fade out effect, well, it's motivating to taste my juice a bit more often, although if it's not a "shake and vape" flavor, well, I do want to know how things are progressing.
Best of luck, and yes, DIY can frustrate, initially. Starting low, keeping my expectations low, and working with single flavors first kind of got me moving in the right direction. I didn't expect much out of my mixes, and have been pleasantly surprised with the amount of success I *have* achieved. But, starting with lower expectations certainly helped, as well as understanding that steeping is a process, and not adding more of anything too soon.
Best of luck,
Anna
What WILL interfere with the steeping process is if you find yourself disappointed with the mix an then add flavoring, as prior to a proper steep many juices (not all) will not taste good and the temptation can be to add more flavor. If you can't "resist" doing that, I would suggest waiting a little longer before tasting, or making some kind of "promise" to yourself that you won't add anything, no matter what. To make things more complex, some flavors taste better out of the gate, like berries and etc. So you may find yourself making for example a strawberry and cream flavor, well the strawberries will likely overpower the cream (custard, etc., those types of flavors) and you may think your recipe is unbalanced, and add more cream, only to find the cream notes "overpowering" later, after a reasonable steep time.
I do agree that some one shot flavors might be a good way to get started, as most can be shaken and vaped, and many of them are quite excellent as standalone flavors. That gives you the opportunity to vape "your" juices while you are waiting for other more complicated recipes to steep.
To add one step more of confusion, some flavors actually fade with long steeping times, like citrus. I have a one shot flavor (although I did add a few things) with some lemon in it and it was really best when I started vaping the flavor but over time that note started to fade, and I did add a little more lemon to "bump" it back to where it was.
These things all require time, trial and error, and while DIY can be infinitely complex, it can also be fairly simple. I think finding some one shots early on that you enjoy can possibly make the more "complicated" mixing go more smoothly as you taste, wait, taste, etc.
I tasted a lot early on, I do less tasting and more steeping with many of my mixes now that I have a general sense of "steep" time. I still need to do more tasting on occasion with some of my newer flavors, as each time I'm adding a new ingredient, I am "changing" what may happen, and when. I had been leaving my juices to steep for at least a month before trying them, but know that I know more about the fade out effect, well, it's motivating to taste my juice a bit more often, although if it's not a "shake and vape" flavor, well, I do want to know how things are progressing.
Best of luck, and yes, DIY can frustrate, initially. Starting low, keeping my expectations low, and working with single flavors first kind of got me moving in the right direction. I didn't expect much out of my mixes, and have been pleasantly surprised with the amount of success I *have* achieved. But, starting with lower expectations certainly helped, as well as understanding that steeping is a process, and not adding more of anything too soon.
Best of luck,
Anna
wow I didn't realize commercial juice uses 20-30% I thought if you add too much flavoring it actually tastes less flavored? Kinda confused about that, when I was starting out someone had said too much flavoring mutes the flavor? Brain is in a pretzel lol
Too much of any one flavor can mute. Brand also makes a huge difference. Commercial juice may have an overall 20-30% of multiple flavors combined. Recipes with high flavor percentages are usually complex or made using weaker concentrates. Try a few one shots to regain some confidence and then give mixing recipes a go again, just don't give up.
Natural blood orange and orange, grape, blueberry, cheesecake, green apple, french vanilla, double apple, butterscotch ripple, toasted mm, yogurt, and white grape.What flavors do you use from Flavor West?
The first 5 are some I know I will continue to use and reorder. On the fence or haven't used much for the rest.
Ever notice that when you go into forums about commercial juice the most common thread title is something like "I suddenly can't taste juice at all?" Go take a look- I think you'll find that's a pretty common thread. Ever wonder why? Maybe it's because when you constantly hammer your nose with 30% flavoring it eventually shuts down. Call that muting if you like, but there's no contradiction here.
Steeping increases flavor in the mix over time, especially if you shake it once or twice a day to ensure a good mix. Even better, buy one of these for $11, use it daily, and accelerate steeping time by orders of magnitude.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BROV02/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BROV02/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I love my Badger. Saves my elbows tons of grief.Steeping increases flavor in the mix over time, especially if you shake it once or twice a day to ensure a good mix. Even better, buy one of these for $11, use it once a day, and accelerate steeping time by orders of magnitude.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BROV02/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Came to the conclusion it was the fruit flavors i had from flavor west. After experimenting with cap, and tfa fruits there is a massive taste difference. Also using a bit of ethyl and marshmellow to sweeten, but when using a bit of dragonfruit seems to do the trick as well. Steeping methods ive tried, ultra sonic cleaner, electric whisk, magnetic stirrer heated and unheated. What seems to work best for me to save some time is I just put the flavor mix with the vg in a 7 dram. Then put the dram vial in a thermist at night with hot water for 8 hours, let it do its thing, and in the morning the mix is ready to go and i add the nic to the room temp mix. Mixes are tasting much better. I guess it was a combination of nic heating, and weak flavorings delivering a flat taste after speed steeping. Heated nic seems to destroy juice.
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