Gear up folks. The end is near.

[panderson01]

You never know.............However, Cuban cigars have been banned in the U.S. for what, 40 or so years

 

[SnuggleBunny]

I said it before and I'll say it again:

viva le revolution!

 

[boochips]

i totally feel we traded one serious poison for another.

i am going to try to quit the e-cig soon and not go back to real cigs.

i think that e-cigs are just as terrible as real ones, and more costly if you become obsessed with it.

sometimes i get large pains in my lower right and left near the stomach/abdomen from vaping consistent long draws.

my nose sometimes feels like a rock and hurts to move it from constantly blowing the vapor through my nostrils

lower side pains and nose pains are enough to conclude it's a terrible thing

we must seek the Lord and give up these alternatives which are indeed another unclean fleshly lust for the mind-altering nicotine

grace and peace to you all from our Lord Jesus Christ

You gotta be kiddin me....

 

[boochips]

I said it before and I'll say it again:

viva le revolution!

I am with ya Bunny!! Viva Le Revolution!!!!

 

[RIMP]

You gotta be kiddin me....

Hey Boo Ain't it great to live in a country where anyone can speak their mind
RIMP

 

[Thulium]

I'm quite satisfied with the evidence as currently understood,
and discussed all over this forum.

But anyway i don't think anyone has said, would say, or would even want to say,
that e-cigs are "harmless".
What i think policy-makers should focus on
is "harm reduction" and based on my research i very seriously doubt
that e-gigs will kill or harm people
anywhere near as much as analogs.

Considering the rate of tobacco-related deaths worldwide, it is almost impossible for e-cigarettes to be anywhere near as harmful as smoking.

There is nothing on this planet that is completely without risk, but if the FDA study is any indication, the "risk" associated with electronic cigarettes is so incredibly minute that it is hardly worth mentioning. Do you realize there are 10mg of known carcinogens in a cup of coffee which is more than a million times more than the amount of TSNA's found in a cartridge of e-liquid?

For me, personally,
being as these gizmos have been in wide use for at least two years
and as far as i know,
nobody's died from using them,
if that meant that i got to spend the next two years feeling as good as i do now
and then i died from "Sudden Nebulous Glycol Syndrome",
i'd die happy.
But i think that a highly unlikely event.

People have been inhaling propylene glycol vapor in much higher quantities for decades at concerts, Halloween "fun houses", and theatrical presentations.

I'm one of those folks who had a very bad reaction to Chantix.
If the FDA had approved and promoted e-cigs i probably wouldn't trust them
near as much as i do.

- joe

Okay, that's kind of funny. ...but mostly it is a very very sad commentary about our current state of affairs.

I'm curious. Did you have any previous history of depression or mental illness before taking Chantix?

 

[ladysolitary85]

Not even close. We won't tolerate it. Not here. Not in America. They ban it... we'll bootleg it. There are enough modders out there. This won't be a problem. Where is you American Spirit? The drive? The thing that makes us stand up and say "over my dead body", or "pry it from my cold dead hand". What are they going to put us all in jail. Hell no they won't. Keep fighting and keep educating others. Learn, research, volunteer yourself where needed. That's why we are here. That's why SunVaporer watches the docket daily, sometime more than daily. The movement is growing, bigger and bigger everyday. We unite and they will not be able to stop us. Bring supporters. Educate everyone you talk to and encourage them to research on their own. It's not like we have anything to hide, like the tobacco companies did. Vaping is a pretty simple concept if you think about it. And the ingredients are simple as well. EDUCATE.

These public use bans you are seeing are fall out from smoking bans. These people are plainly and simply, uneducated about the facts. They hear "electronic cigarette" and they think "cigarette". Educate them. There was a group from New Jersey who attended a city council meeting and discussed the facts. The opposing side representative could only cite press releases and no facts. It's on youtube and was posted on this forum. Point is do something. Write Congress, write you local reps, educate them. We could revolutionalize things the way the vaping has revolutionalized my life. Tell your stories, tell your friends to tell their stories. We can be our own lobby. That's why this forum exists.

So in short, stop being such a damn defeatist and stand up and fight.

That's the American spirit we need to see!

Seriously, I know I've said this before, but I think we should make some kind of commerical like the anti-tobacco did with the "truth".

Only have us vapors standing outside of the FDA's office

*Terminator intro music begins*

couldn't resist!

 

[darkmatter22]

you can never stop darkmatter22 from getting what he wants

 

[Thyestean]

I started out reading this thread actually having some interest in what was being said. I think TropicalBobs post made a good point as did some others. But honestly throughout the majority of the thread my mind kept jumping back to one thing.

What the hell does Jesus Christ have to do with whether or not I use a PV?

 

[ladysolitary85]

I started out reading this thread actually having some interest in what was being said. I think TropicalBobs post made a good point as did some others. But honestly throughout the majority of the thread my mind kept jumping back to one thing.

What the hell does Jesus Christ have to do with whether or not I use a PV?

I really don't know.... but either way it was off topic lol.

 

[Harlequin]

People have been inhaling propylene glycol vapor in much higher quantities for decades at concerts, Halloween "fun houses", and theatrical presentations.

A fog machines issues more vapor than an e-cig does, but the exposure to PG at concerts, haunted houses etc. is diffuse and temporary; I doubt that the actual inhalation level (concentration, etc.) even comes close to regular use of an e-cig device.

TBH, that's almost my only qualm about vaping. We know that PG is harmless when digested, but I don't think anyone knows the longer-term effects of deliberately inhaling it as a concentrated vapor.

The rebuttal is that, having vaped for nearly a month now, I'm definitely breathing much better than I did when I was smoking a pack a day.

 

[DanF]

Yep, my eyes glazed over as soon as the ...... was mentioned.

I feel vaping could not possibly be more, or equally, as harmful as burning tobacco. I can breathe so much better than I could before, and feel no other ill affects. BUT, I would like to see some valid, impartial test results just so all the guesswork can be put to rest.

 

[Thyestean]

I really don't know.... but either way it was off topic lol.

That it was. And more or less my question wasn't really a question but a statement about my thoughts. If it was a question it would be a rhetorical one because I already know the answer is "not a damn thing".
So please nobody else respond to it because as I said it wasn't a question and is off-topic.

 

[Sar]

When I was smoking analogs I used to take a 4-hr trip to indian reservation about twice a year and buy two dozen cartons each time. Many people take similar trips to Canada or Mexico to get medication.

Am not sure what is the legal status of selling ecigs in those countries. But I would make a shopping trip if there was a brick & mortar store to buy from. 100 or so pieces of 510 atomizers isn't a big package.

 

[Ez Duzit]

I've thought about this a long time, and I have a solution. I'm going to start a religion. I think I'll call it Vaporism. Using a PV will be an integral part of our religion. It will be a common ritual during personal meditations, and also used as medicine, (similar to the Rastafarian use of Ganja)

Haven't quite figured out all the ins and outs yet, but HEY, the Vatican wasn't built overnight either.
So.....Who's with me?

 

[Sar]

... We know that PG is harmless when digested, but I don't think anyone knows the longer-term effects of deliberately inhaling it as a concentrated vapor. ...

What do you mean by longer-term? I figure I have maybe 25 years ahead of me. Not enough time for me to wait for a 20-year study. And if I am forced back to analogs, I don't think I'll have 25 years. Vaping gives me better odds.

 

[Thulium]

A fog machines issues more vapor than an e-cig does, but the exposure to PG at concerts, haunted houses etc. is diffuse and temporary; I doubt that the actual inhalation level (concentration, etc.) even comes close to regular use of an e-cig device.

TBH, that's almost my only qualm about vaping. We know that PG is harmless when digested, but I don't think anyone knows the longer-term effects of deliberately inhaling it as a concentrated vapor.

The rebuttal is that, having vaped for nearly a month now, I'm definitely breathing much better than I did when I was smoking a pack a day.

But studies HAVE been conducted. Here's a snippet from the Time Magazine article about studies on vaporized PG as a germicide:

Propylene glycol is harmless to man when swallowed or injected into the veins. It is also harmless to mice who have breathed it for long periods. But medical science is cautious—there was still a remote chance that glycol might accumulate harmfully in the erect human lungs which, unlike those of mice, do not drain themselves. So last June Dr. Robertson began studying the effect of glycol vapor on monkeys imported from the University of Puerto Rico's School of Tropical Medicine. So far, after many months' exposure to the vapor, the monkeys are happy and fatter than ever. Dr. Robertson does not expect mankind to live, like his monkeys, continuously in an atmosphere of glycol vapor; but it should be most valuable in such crowded places as schools and theaters, where most respiratory diseases are picked up.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,932876-2,00.html#ixzz0ZMu77PU6

Keep in mind that the heaviest PV users use only 3milliliters a day and assuredly a good portion of that is exhaled. A "toy" fog machine atomizes a liter of PG in 2-3 hours--it would take me at least a year (probably closer to 2) to vape that much.

.

 

[JoeMcPlumber]

I'm curious. Did you have any previous history of depression or mental illness before taking Chantix?

Well OT but yea,
i've got a string of diagnoses and i'm officially disabled.

But to my mind that makes the pharmaceutical and medical industries
all the more culpable for failing to tell me just how psychoactive the stuff is
and casually prescribing it to someone with my history
with no observation.

I'll probably post more of my experience because i find it fascinating
to learn of other psychoactive substances apart from nicotine in tobacco smoke
and the possibility that i've been self-medicating my schizophrenia
for 40 years, with the nicotine itself.

 

[Harlequin]

But studies HAVE been conducted. Here's a snippet from the Time Magazine article about studies on vaporized PG as a germicide:

I've found one study of a more recent vintage than 1942, which is somewhat encouraging in that it confirms that:

Inhalation of the vapors of propylene glycol (PG) appears to present no significant hazard in ordinary applications. However, limited human experience indicates that breathing of mists of propylene glycols may be irritating to some individuals. Prolonged inhalation of saturated vapors of PG have produced only minor effects in animals (irritation). However, such concentrations may be irritating to the upper respiratory tract and eyes of humans.

However, this hinges on what is assumed to be an "ordinary application" - see below.

Keep in mind that the heaviest PV users use only 3milliliters a day and assuredly a good portion of that is exhaled. A "toy" fog machine atomizes a liter of PG in 2-3 hours--it would take me at least a year (probably closer to 2) to vape that much.

Yes - my point was that unless you were actually sucking on a fog machine, your exposure to inhaled PG at a concert, haunted house etc. would likely be both temporary and considerably less concentrated than regularly vaping an e-cig.

As concert-goers or theatrical audience members, we're breathing a diffuse PG vapor for a short period of time. As regular vapers, we're inhaling a concentrated PG vapor, many times daily, potentially for years. I don't think that this type of application has been studied since 1942, if even then; what was the concentration of PG those monkeys were breathing? How long did the experiment last? Were there any follow-up studies?

Essentially, we're this generation's test monkeys.

Again, I want to reinforce that my own experience so far has been totally positive - I am breathing better and generally feel better, and I certainly hope that inhaling concentrated PG vapor is basically harmless in the long term. I'd just feel even better if I knew for sure.

 

[Thulium]

Yes - my point was that unless you were actually sucking on a fog machine, your exposure to inhaled PG at a concert, haunted house etc. would likely be both temporary and considerably less concentrated than regularly vaping an e-cig.

Yes it is temporary, but I'm not sure it is any less concentrated. Fog machines saturate the environment otherwise the vapor would evaporate in a few seconds like we get with PVs. Even when vaping heavily, a PV user is taking breaths without glycol vapor as opposed to a concertgoer who is inhaling pg vapor with every breath.