Gear up folks. The end is near.

[535cheetah]

really all i hear is alot of whining and complaining from alot of people.....
there are good points,bad points and some crazy points made in here, but alot of whining to me.... ill prolly get ripped on for this but oh well.

I'm all for fighting the good fight, keeping my vaping right intact. writing letters,signing petitions and protesting infont of buildings if need be. kick ... and take names later if i have to.

am i gunna stock pile on parts ~ nope
am i worried and frantic about whats gunna happen~ nope
am i gunna go crazy if the government bans e-cigs ~nope

ALL the parts to an e-cig can be hand made if need be attys -made, juice made, battery's -bought
I'm not worried at all, that doesn't mean I'm not gunna fight to hell and back to try to keep this hobby/addiction easily available to us all, but I'm not gunna worry all about it like its the end of vaping as we know it.

if the ban comes it comes, i can (and alot of you) say i did my best to try and stop it, but its not gunna be the end of me vaping! NO man made government/persons has or will stop me from doing what i want to do so far, and will not... only the almighty has that power.
i just take one day at a time, fly by the seat of my pants,calm, cool and relaxed. so far i haven't been check mate yet.

yes i think the manufactures need to do testing and they screwed us on that (so far)
is it more harmful? trading one poison for another?? who know as of yet??
but i know i FEEL better, breathe better, smell and taste things better, i know I'm intaking only a few chemicals rather then 400-4000 chemicals, and i know that these chemicals i inhale are safe to eat (except nic) sooo i have to believe it is safer then analogs, and will prolong my existence here on earth that much longer.

yes quitting nicotine is an option, and one i hope to achieve SOMEDAY..but on MY terms not someone Else's!!! alot of people including myself dont wanna quit just yet (or for some, ever) and until nicotine by itself is provin to be more then a nice addictive stimulate as caffeine is, we shouldn't have to quit.

i dont mean to be an ... here, but just keep fighting the good fight, take one day at a time, take a deep breath - vape and repeat. vaping will still be there the day after the ban and a year after the ban. NO ONE can stop you if you dont let them.
let the ripping commence

 

[DC2]

I've thought about this a long time, and I have a solution. I'm going to start a religion. I think I'll call it Vaporism. Using a PV will be an integral part of our religion.

This has actually been discussed here before.
Search "religion" and you should be able to find some of the discussions.

 

[DC2]

The vaporizer could not be targeted by this ban, we can still buy bongs, hookahs, glass pipes, etc even though these devices imply they are to be used with Marijuana which is illegal. Hardware WILL be available regardless!

You may be right that they will not go after the hardware, but they most certainly can if they want to.
They did raids and have confiscated bongs and other marijuana hardware right here where I live.
All that is needed is someone making a loud enough noise about it.

And guess how big a noise Big Tobacco and Big Pharma are gonna make.

I am tired of people spreading fear and panic on this forum based on ignorance.

Sticking our heads in the sand to the possibilities will not make them go away.
People should be aware of what might happen so they can make their own informed decisions.

And more importantly, they should be rightfully concerned, and motivated to action.

 

[optsmk]

My opinion on this is that ecigs will be found to be safe, or at least safer than traditional analogs. For this reason, there will not be a total ban on e-cigs. However, I have a feeling that there will be a ban on certain flavors of juice just like there is on certain flavored analogs. At this point it seems like the big worry about e-cigs is that with all the fruity and candy like flavors the FDA is concerned that children will start vaping and become addicted to e-cigs. It's a ridiculous idea, but thats the way it is. I'm sure that will be bad news for some of us, but we will get over it and deal with what we can get.

Along with that will come some form of regulation. Currently there are no regulations on the juice that we order so technically, we could be buying juice that contains other ingredients or contaminants that we don't know about. With regulation will come higher prices because of the strict testing that will have to be done with any juice before it is released to the public.

At this point, no one can really say what the final outcome will be. I personally don't worry about it much. I just keep buying in small amounts to last me a month or so. I'll deal with a ban when it comes, should it come at all. To say that "The end is near" is really a rediculious statement to make at this time.

 

[Bogalu]

For everyone freaking out about the safety of E-cigs, stop worrying. The FDA may sound idiotic by saying they found those millionth of a trace of the same chemicals found in caffeine... BUT... if thats the WORST thing they could come up with in there TAINTED batches of Juice they where testing, then safety wise... We'll be fine.

 

[VaporPhreak]

535 & optsmk,

Thank you for talking sence! That is pretty much the message I have been trying to convey all day with these posts. Peace!

 

[Thyestean]

At this point it seems like the big worry about e-cigs is that with all the fruity and candy like flavors the FDA is concerned that children will start vaping and become addicted to e-cigs. It's a ridiculous idea, but thats the way it is.

Correction the FDA pretends to be concerned in order to have an excuse for their actions that will appeal to the general public.

And yes it is ridiculous. Saying flavored products are created to try and entice children is the biggest line of bullxxxxx ever thought up. Do people suddenly remove all the flavor from their snacks, drinks, and foods once they become adults?

 

[me144]

We traded 4000 for one.

I know this hasn't been proven yet. But your pessimism is unfounded. What makes you think that this stuff is that deadly? Showing doubt about the health benefits of vaping in replace of smoking just makes the government think we have something to hide.

You beat me to it, that was my first thought as well. You forgot to add nicotine, that would be 2 vs 4000 ... oh and let's throw in the 69 carcenogens from lighting someting on fire ... and then inhaling it.

According to the ECA the end is not near, even if the FDA vs SE there will most likely be 2 years of appeals ... even the PACT Act has a lot of "ifs" involved that process and that refers to tobacco products which this is not.

I'm not convinced we are at the end. With CVS taking on selling ecigs and PM in talks with ruyan makes me think there is a possibility of a Marlboro ecig being marketed to the general public.

Anything is possible it is true, but weighing out the facts I don't see it coming forth tomorrow. I could be wrong, but from my research I don't think it will come that soon.

Personally I've cut back to 6mg now after five and a half months and moving towards zero. If they take away the ecig, I'll most likely be done at that point.

 

[j4mmin42]

I agree with many who have posted here...if you're that concerned about the fact that very little formal testing has been done, go back to inhaling the thousands of chemicals produced by fresh tobacco combustion-at least then you know what you're inhaling

The amount and scale of anecdotal evidence here is surprising, even to a skeptical person like me: Time and again, the most horrifying complaints I find here and elsewhere are suspected allergies to base ingredients and QC issues surrounding the fact that much of our e-liquid is produced in a developing nation. Obviously, formal testing(very expensive and time-consuming) would be great, and those of us who are unshaken by these blown-up claims by the FDA should support any effort to prove the safety of our devices.

The game is NOT over yet!

And yes, I also agree with the people saying that politics often rules over science-look at the global warming "debate"(finally coming to an end, we hope) or, further back, the continuation of the sale and legal production of tobacco products after 1964-5, when the Surgeon General first made statements regarding the ill effects of its use. Is it possible that this could doom us all, in a legal sense? Yes. But, history also proves that making a hot commodity illegal only accomplishes two things: a rise in prices and the creation of a criminally-run black market. In many cases the demand can actually increase following prohibition, especially here stateside where the government has a history of banning certain commodities for political reasons rather than because of hard scientific evidence.

Finally, I wanted to add that we as a community are growing, and at a fairly rapid pace at that! The mere fact that thousands of people are voicing their opinions and daily experiences about vaping may help our cause more than some of us realize. Apocalyptic predictions , on the other hand, are NOT going to help us in any way, and will only discourage people interested in quitting smoking from trying e-cigarettes, as well as defeating the hope of the masses here on the forums, i.e. those of us who have at least some faith in these products. My money, for one, is on the consumers' side here: whichever way the general public leans will most likely be the final outcome, barring any conclusive studies done by the FDA or others.

-J4mmin

 

[Bogalu]

I completely agree with you J4M. Plus a harmless product on the black market? Sounds like the alcohol prohibition, and alcohol is far from harmless compared to vaporized nicotine. And we all seen where that got us. So go head and ban it, I'll be buying even easier after you publicly ban the first harmless thing since beer. That will open EVERYONES eyes to the E Cig world and push even more people to join the ranks.

 

[Lithium1330]

One word again: Iolite.

And please read a little more about vaporization vs. combustion, vaporizing tobacco should not be a taboo just because it is tobacco, every herb in this planet has nitrosamines and no matter what kind of herb it is if you burn it, it will produce nitrosamines and a lot of chemicals including CO and all that crap, so the problem is not tobacco but combustion.

Of course, vaporization of clean and pure PG+Nicotine will be the ideal, but how could you be sure that our e-liquid is so pure if nobody regulates it? and with this in mind, what is safer, vaporizing home grow clean tobacco or vaporizing unregulated e-liquid?

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Actually, I think ACM's post is dead-on.

There will be no cute end runs around the law once it is articulated and enforced. You most certainly will NOT order from China and expect delivery. The reasons that's a fact have been explained many times on this forum.

But it's not our responsibility to obtain approval for e-cigs and e-liquid. That's the responsibility of the manufacturers. And they have let us down -- royally. Only Ruyan made any attempt to scientifically determine what we're doing .. and Ruyan is near bankruptcy and facing a possible hostile buyout, according to published reports.

Other companies took their inflated profits and laughed all the way to the bank.

We do not have the studies needed by e-smoking for regulatory approval. So e-smoking faces a ban.

What we need is governmental intervention to enable fast-tracking of new technology with the potential to save lives of inveterate smokers. Those are the addicts who can't quit, won't quit, and fail on Big Pharma's NRT products. They deserve a chance to try e-smoking.

What should be done is to issue a series of timed demands for achievement, much as was done with the bailout of the auto industry. You (e-cig makers) will cease health claims immediately; you will childproof everything within three months; you will submit lab tests on all liquids within six months; you will provide clinical trial results for quitting smokers within one year. Until then, you remain conditionally approved for distribution and sale. Should your products prove injurious, you will be held fully accountable for all damages. If you do not agree, you may not sell in America.

Just thought I'd repost this for stragglers. TBob is right, if the manufacturers get with the program and demonstrate good faith in following FDA guidelines where applicable, they may be able to win some favor. At the very least it's a stockpile of ammo in favor of the ecig vs FDA. The big wrench in the works here would be suppliers flying under the radar and not meeting those same guidelines, it all will come into play.

 

[MatrixXx]

Some science needs to be done. Tests, surveys, studies. They all NEED to be done, and need to be done NOW. E-Smoking is much helathier. Us - as previous smokers- KNOW that, now we need to put it on paper. Someone should get a study-fund donation site up.

Donate 15 or more you get a banner here on the forum. I'm sure a big chunk of people would be willing to donate from 1-25 bucks. Afterall, they will understand it's protecting THEIR vaping.

I never thought i'd quit. It's just too hard. With e-cigs, i KNOW i can quit and the tax $ hungry government doesn't like that one bit.

 

[OMB]

I know that I have been smoking (FDA approved) tobacco cigarettes, heavily, for 30 years or so. The warnings were put on packs the year I was born. I wheeze, cough, keep a cold forever, etc. I don't believe that vaping is completely safe. I DO think it HAS to be better than smoking anything.
Smoke is dangerous in and of itself...and we had to teach ourselves to inhale it....to get past the body's natural urge to expel the smoke. Most deaths from fires are from smoke inhalation, not the actual fire. And the FDA approved this crap decades ago...lol.
I think big tobacco will not only get in on e-cigs, but do their very best to keep them from being banned. They will see this as their new avenue to keeping nicotine addictions alive. What I worry about, is that they will line the pockets of the FDA and law-makers, to be able to add crap (like they have tobacco) to enhance the addictive properties, etc.
I personally don't believe that vaping is more, or even CLOSE, to as dangerous as cigs have proven to be. I have not yet begun to vape, but I will be making my first order soon.

 

[ACM]

... your 'nicotine .... labs' analogy is a bit over the top...

Maybe. LOL. But it was kind of a neat visual, ya gotta admit.

I love the discourse on this forum. So many opinions, and so many intelligent, thoughtful comments. If only those who would condemn the industry through all of this misguided legislation would spend some time on this forum, maybe they'd begin to see that vaping could be a better alternative.

The bottom line, for me, is that I DO believe vaping is ultimately safer than smoking, but I can't completely buy into it without testing. No matter what we all think, and no matter how logical our arguments are, we have nothing but opinion to back us up. And opinion will not sway the staunch, anti-vaping politicians to embrace this industry.

 

[Darmeen]

Maybe. LOL. But it was kind of a neat visual, ya gotta admit.

I love the discourse on this forum. So many opinions, and so many intelligent, thoughtful comments. If only those who would condemn the industry through all of this misguided legislation would spend some time on this forum, maybe they'd begin to see that vaping could be a better alternative.

The bottom line, for me, is that I DO believe vaping is ultimately safer than smoking, but I can't completely buy into it without testing. No matter what we all think, and no matter how logical our arguments are, we have nothing but opinion to back us up. And opinion will not sway the staunch, anti-vaping politicians to embrace this industry.

I love the discourse as well...it is a real shame that some of the opponents have not come over here to see what the community is really about.

I don't believe that vaping is totally safe, but compared to analogs, it is leaps and bounds better...that really isn't opinion either, as we have all felt the benefits of reduced harm (easier breathing, sense of smell and taste, blood pressure drop, etc.) These things aren't opinions, they are anecdotal evidence that at the very least vaping is a reduced harm tobacco replacement.

The real sad part is that those that are uneducated really won't try very hard to become educated. They hear nicotine and think smoking, and that is the end of the story for them.

 

[ACM]

But studies HAVE been conducted. Here's a snippet from the Time Magazine article about studies on vaporized PG as a germicide...

I was intrigued by that TIME magazine article when I first came across it as I researched vaping for myself. I would love for further studies on that, as well.

But as far as it being a valid argument for long-term inhalation of PG as of now, I have my doubts. That study was conducted in 1942. Scientific technology has advanced so far from that point that issues not detected in the lungs of the test rodents might likely be detected now, through the use of various types of medical imagery.

So it is an interesting, possible side-benefit of vaping, but still not enough to prove to the lawmakers that vaping needs to be permitted.

 

[ACM]

i dont mean to be an ... here...

I don't think you're being an ... at all. You have good points, and I agree with many of them. I certainly don't want to quit vaping. Hell, I didn't "want" to quit smoking. I only did it because vaping was available to me as an alternative that I do believe is safer to some degree.

To beat my main point like a dead horse, and one last time: I just want to see the cold, hard data that confirms my hope and belief that vaping is doing considerably less harm to me than smoking was. And I want that data to be legitimate to refute any FDA or legislator claim that e-smoking is a public health concern.

The industry wants to stay in business, so the industry MUST pursue the right kind of testing that will hold up under scrutiny.

 

[Kresh]

Okay,

I know of a couple of certified labs in the US that are selling liquid nicotine. They are all legal in the US. So we can't get it from China, but what about US labs? That should settle all the problems...and we all become DIYers for flavors.

 

[juggalojedi]

really all i hear is alot of whining and complaining from alot of people.....
there are good points,bad points and some crazy points made in here, but alot of whining to me.... ill prolly get ripped on for this but oh well.

I'm all for fighting the good fight, keeping my vaping right intact. writing letters,signing petitions and protesting infont of buildings if need be. kick ... and take names later if i have to.

am i gunna stock pile on parts ~ nope
am i worried and frantic about whats gunna happen~ nope
am i gunna go crazy if the government bans e-cigs ~nope

ALL the parts to an e-cig can be hand made if need be attys -made, juice made, battery's -bought
I'm not worried at all, that doesn't mean I'm not gunna fight to hell and back to try to keep this hobby/addiction easily available to us all, but I'm not gunna worry all about it like its the end of vaping as we know it.

if the ban comes it comes, i can (and alot of you) say i did my best to try and stop it, but its not gunna be the end of me vaping! NO man made government/persons has or will stop me from doing what i want to do so far, and will not... only the almighty has that power.
i just take one day at a time, fly by the seat of my pants,calm, cool and relaxed. so far i haven't been check mate yet.

yes i think the manufactures need to do testing and they screwed us on that (so far)
is it more harmful? trading one poison for another?? who know as of yet??
but i know i FEEL better, breathe better, smell and taste things better, i know I'm intaking only a few chemicals rather then 400-4000 chemicals, and i know that these chemicals i inhale are safe to eat (except nic) sooo i have to believe it is safer then analogs, and will prolong my existence here on earth that much longer.

yes quitting nicotine is an option, and one i hope to achieve SOMEDAY..but on MY terms not someone Else's!!! alot of people including myself dont wanna quit just yet (or for some, ever) and until nicotine by itself is provin to be more then a nice addictive stimulate as caffeine is, we shouldn't have to quit.

i dont mean to be an ... here, but just keep fighting the good fight, take one day at a time, take a deep breath - vape and repeat. vaping will still be there the day after the ban and a year after the ban. NO ONE can stop you if you dont let them.
let the ripping commence

you said it better than i could ... they havent yet made me stop smoking "other things" and thats been banned for longer than ive been around