Gear up folks. The end is near.

[JustJulie]

One word ... IOLITE

Yup. I purchased my Iolite as my ultimate insurance policy. My worst case scenario is vaping tobacco if I NEED nicotine and can't get liquid containing nicotine.

I would rather not travel down that road since I've been tobacco-free for about 10 months. However, if that's the only way to vape and get nicotine, then at least I know that vaporization is far, far less damaging and dangerous than combustion.

And, as TBob noted, one can vape snus. Again, not my first choice, but if that's what it comes down to, I can live with that.

 

[quiet noobz]

Yup. I purchased my Iolite as my ultimate insurance policy. My worst case scenario is vaping tobacco if I NEED nicotine and can't get liquid containing nicotine.

I would rather not travel down that road since I've been tobacco-free for about 10 months. However, if that's the only way to vape and get nicotine, then at least I know that vaporization is far, far less damaging and dangerous than combustion.

And, as TBob noted, one can vape snus. Again, not my first choice, but if that's what it comes down to, I can live with that.

ever contemplate the notion of quitting nicotine?

it is an option, you guys.

worse comes to worse, all they'll do is tax it heavily, anyways.

all they want is their share

 

[jj2]

Tropical Bob is probably right, and this was handled wrong from get-go.
I have a lot of attys stock piled but probably not for a lifetime.
Unfortunately I took a break from buying to have a nice Xmas. I can only hope that for awhile after the turn of the year, I can still get attys---the Achilles hell. Only then will I be set. I do feel sorry for all those who would have made the switch.

 

[jadeninja]

Not even close. We won't tolerate it. Not here. Not in America. They ban it... we'll bootleg it. There are enough modders out there. This won't be a problem. Where is you American Spirit? The drive? The thing that makes us stand up and say "over my dead body", or "pry it from my cold dead hand". What are they going to put us all in jail. Hell no they won't. Keep fighting and keep educating others. Learn, research, volunteer yourself where needed. That's why we are here. That's why SunVaporer watches the docket daily, sometime more than daily. The movement is growing, bigger and bigger everyday. We unite and they will not be able to stop us. Bring supporters. Educate everyone you talk to and encourage them to research on their own. It's not like we have anything to hide, like the tobacco companies did. Vaping is a pretty simple concept if you think about it. And the ingredients are simple as well. EDUCATE.

These public use bans you are seeing are fall out from smoking bans. These people are plainly and simply, uneducated about the facts. They hear "electronic cigarette" and they think "cigarette". Educate them. There was a group from New Jersey who attended a city council meeting and discussed the facts. The opposing side representative could only cite press releases and no facts. It's on youtube and was posted on this forum. Point is do something. Write Congress, write you local reps, educate them. We could revolutionalize things the way the vaping has revolutionalized my life. Tell your stories, tell your friends to tell their stories. We can be our own lobby. That's why this forum exists.

So in short, stop being such a damn defeatist and stand up and fight.

 

[Darmeen]

Nobody's health was potentially at risk because of file sharing. And Napster simply became a paid service, like iTunes. With e-cigs, it's way different.

And while, no, they can't ban a battery, you can believe that they'll ban e-juice outright and liquid nicotine for private, non-licensed purchasers.

Basically, what you're saying is that we're all destined to turn our basements into some kind of "e-juice .... labs" to be able to continue to produce stuff to vape. Which will lead to inconsistent quality, contamination, possible nicotine poisoning, and a host of other problems. Not to mention the fact that it would probably be illegal to produce e-juice at home.

I am not trying to be argumentative, here. Just realistic. The end really is near, and the sooner we all accept it, the better.

Now is the time to start stocking up on e-juice. Buy varying nicotine levels, and start stepping down to zero milligrams. Wean off the stuff while you can do so with the aid of your e-cigs, so when the ban comes down, you're no longer a consumer of nicotine at all.

Right, Napster became legit, but the idea of file sharing for free continues today...torrents! It is the same for e-cigs...the avenues of obtaining clean juice will open themselves up if a ban on juice comes into play...it may cost a couple bucks more to have a vender from the UK label the box as something other than liquid nicotine...after all, nicotine by volume is a small percentage of what is in the bottle.

Hell, we have vendors right now that are selling DIY kits with everything you need to make your own juice...so your 'nicotine .... labs' analogy is a bit over the top...

and a ban on shipping a product is much different than making a product illegal to own...

How about this...it is illegal (in the state of California anyway) to own a switchblade...but...you can purchase an un-assembled kit from vendors located in the state, and it is totally legal...as a matter of fact, until you put the last spring in, it continues to be a legal knife...but once that last spring goes in, it becomes illegal.

The point is, the FDA isn't going to make the e-cig illegal, they may place a ban on juice, but 90% of what makes the juice can be bought at many places, and the only missing ingredient is the liquid nic, which there are way around that as well as TBob has pointed out. It won't be as healthy (getting all the tobacco crap from the snus) but it will still be a damn site better than going back to analogs.

 

[doots]

Tbob, you're right about manufacturers letting all of us down..

We need better proof and iron clad studies done and paid for by the manufacturers.

Until then I dont see we have a leg to stand on!

 

[donnellyk]

To the posters who suggest (or condescend) that we should quit: I LIKE my nicotine!!! Just happy I could find a healthier way to get it!!! Hell no I won't go!!!

 

[d4rk3]

I already planned on stockpiling incase something like this happened. Pry not a lifetime's worth, but enough.

As was said, if they ban them other ways will arise. Drugs are illegal and they're EVERYWHERE.

 

[jadeninja]

ever contemplate the notion of quitting nicotine?

it is an option, you guys.

worse comes to worse, all they'll do is tax it heavily, anyways.

all they want is their share

Why should I have to quit nicotine? Why not my morning cup of coffee too. Nicotine is NOT A CARCINOGEN. Why not my morning run? That could be "bad" for me too. If it weren't for e-cigs, I wouldn't be on a morning run. Maybe I should quit that occasional drink. Maybe Tropical Bob should stop drinking rum. Maybe I should stop watch NCIS on Tuesday night because I could spend my time more productively. Maybe I should stop eating chocolate or McRib sandwiches. Get my point. It's not illegal (nicotine) and it never will be. So if I like it, why should I quit. There are a lot of options. What's not an option is someone else telling me how I should live my life and what choices I should make. I'm a big boy and can make my own choices. So can everyone else. And a lot of us have made the choice to stop killing ourselves with cigarettes. Now you’re suggesting that we "switch to decaf". I will take it under advisement. Not.

And as far as taxes and "their share", what share? What the hell did the federal or state or local governments do that they are entitled to a share. The damn FDA can't even comprehend its own half assed study. You know the study that shows that e cig carts contain little to no carcinogens. No, they focus on one contaminated cart that was probably contaminated by them. Hence there was only on. In science, you need to repeat a result many times to come to a conclusion. They teach that to my son in fourth grade. So back to what I was saying, "What share"? What did the aforementioned government do in the development, marketing, sale, distribution, and study of ecigs. They got in the way. So that entitles them to a share? Why does everything have to be taxed? Aren't we taxed enough? What do we get for said taxes? An FDA report that the FDA can't even interpret? We get more bureaucrat jobs with people telling us what to do. I don't need to pay someone to tell me what to do on every damn aspect of my life.

To quote R. Lee Ermey from "Full Metal Jacket". If you're going to f**k me in the ..., at least have the courtesy to give me a reach around.

 

[jadeninja]

Look man, I was a little rough on you, but here's the thing. That kind of mentality is the problem. You ever read "If You Give A Mouse A Cookie"? The problem is if you concede the something, they will want more.

Here we concede nothing. The industry for the most part is pretty self- regulated. Consumers here are savvy. I have no problem with quality control checks. In fact, I welcome it. But that is it. And that is the FDA's job. Keep things safe with quality control guideline and enforcement power to make sure they are adhered to. But that is all. They do not have the right to arbitrarily ban something they know nothing about, but contains all ingredients approved by them. They should be studying. There are companies, like Johnson Creek, who are trying to work with the FDA, but the FDA just ignores them. There too busy seizing shipments, to do what they are charted to do.

Speaking of the FDA, they don't exactly have the greatest track record. Just Google FDA approved drugs that have been pulled from the market. It's a long list. And all these drugs were "rigorously tested". Phen phen anyone. E-cigs are saving lives now and they want to ban first and test later. The FDA should be on this board, trying to get volunteers to journal their experiences instead of overstepping their powers by seizing shipments.

You have to stand up to these folks. They work for us and so often lately, they need constant reminder of that fact. So remind them. OFTEN.

 

[DC2]

i totally feel we traded one serious poison for another.

Sounds like you're allergic to PG so you might want to try VG instead.

 

[jadeninja]

To quote R. Lee Ermey from "Full Metal Jacket". If you're going to f**k me in the ..., at least have the courtesy to give me a reach around.

The exact quote is:
"I bet you're the kind of guy that would fu** a person in the ..., and not even have the .......ned common courtesy to give him a reach around."

 

[DC2]

The most I think they could do is ban the e-juice. They can't possibly outlaw batteries or atomizers. Intent means nothing, as is demonstrated by the legal paraphernalia that one can buy at any head shop that is obviously used for illicit purposes.

This is incorrect.

Where I live they decided, on a whim, to crack down on the paraphernalia you speak of. So they raided, issued fines, and confiscated all such paraphernalia. They can easily do it if they want to, they just don't care to bother because nobody really cares about the existence of such paraphernalia. But they will most certainly care about electronic cigarette paraphernalia, and people with huge and deep pockets will see to it that the right people care a whole heck of a lot.

Marijuana paraphernalia should never be used as an analogy for what might happen.

 

[DC2]

Not even close. We won't tolerate it. Not here. Not in America. They ban it... we'll bootleg it. There are enough modders out there. This won't be a problem. Where is you American Spirit? The drive? The thing that makes us stand up and say "over my dead body", or "pry it from my cold dead hand". What are they going to put us all in jail. Hell no they won't. Keep fighting and keep educating others. Learn, research, volunteer yourself where needed. That's why we are here. That's why SunVaporer watches the docket daily, sometime more than daily. The movement is growing, bigger and bigger everyday. We unite and they will not be able to stop us. Bring supporters. Educate everyone you talk to and encourage them to research on their own. It's not like we have anything to hide, like the tobacco companies did. Vaping is a pretty simple concept if you think about it. And the ingredients are simple as well. EDUCATE.

These public use bans you are seeing are fall out from smoking bans. These people are plainly and simply, uneducated about the facts. They hear "electronic cigarette" and they think "cigarette". Educate them. There was a group from New Jersey who attended a city council meeting and discussed the facts. The opposing side representative could only cite press releases and no facts. It's on youtube and was posted on this forum. Point is do something. Write Congress, write you local reps, educate them. We could revolutionalize things the way the vaping has revolutionalized my life. Tell your stories, tell your friends to tell their stories. We can be our own lobby. That's why this forum exists.

So in short, stop being such a damn defeatist and stand up and fight.

And this post is nails, and what we should all be doing, and what I do every day.

 

[Darmeen]

This is incorrect.

Where I live they decided, on a whim, to crack down on the paraphernalia you speak of. So they raided, issued fines, and confiscated all such paraphernalia. They can easily do it if they want to, they just don't care to bother because nobody really cares about the existence of such paraphernalia. But they will most certainly care about electronic cigarette paraphernalia, and people with huge and deep pockets will see to it that the right people care a whole heck of a lot.

Marijuana paraphernalia should never be used as an analogy for what might happen.

Did they shut down The Black in OB...hell even non pot smokers from North County knew about The Black!

 

[DC2]

Did they shut down The Black in OB...hell even non pot smokers from North County knew about The Black!

Dude, everybody in all of San Diego county knows about The Black.


But that is not where they cracked down.
They cracked down up here in north county where I live.

 

[LukeNM]

Maybe we can get the same guys that did the global warming study to do the e-cig study... Would you really trust the FDA's results?

 

[Turco Chips]

I visited The Black when I was in S.D.


TC

 

[Thulium]

i totally feel we traded one serious poison for another.

Personally, I don't feel that way at all. There are no indications of any serious hazards from e-cigarettes when used as intended and there is honestly no reason to expect to find any signifcant hazards. A few people have a bad reaction to propylene glycol, but they can use vegetable glycerin. More testing needs to be done, but in all likelihood it will simply verify that e-cigarettes are Mostly Harmless.

i am going to try to quit the e-cig soon and not go back to real cigs.

How long have you been vaping? If you've been smoke-free for two months or more, I suspect you will find quitting e-cigs to be much easier than quitting smoking because you are already working to break the addiction to many of the habit reinforcing compounds like MAO Inhibitors... Stepping down your nicotine usage or switching to 0-nic vegetable glycerin could ease the final transition, but you can use your PV to pacify any urge to smoke until it stops.

i think that e-cigs are just as terrible as real ones, and more costly if you become obsessed with it.

Why do you think that? Thanks to my Joye 510, I have basically quit smoking by accident. My clothes no longer smell like I took a dust bath in an ashtray. I can walk more than one flight of stairs without getting winded again. I don't have to risk giving myself hypothermia to keep my daughter from being exposed to smoke (and her mom has stopped complaining about our daughter smelling like cigarettes after giving me a hug).

As far as being more costly? Over the past two months I've spent about $200 for vaping supplies for myself and my roommates. I would have spent at least that much on cigarettes already and I have plenty of e-liquid samplers to last me while I begin stockpiling. I suppose someone could get carried away and buy more stuff than they really need, but thats kind of the way things go with hobbies. Really, in spite of SmokingEverywhere's best efforts to be the exception to the rule, I don't know if it is even possible to overspend when it comes to choosing a smoke-free lifestyle. Do you?

sometimes i get large pains in my lower right and left near the stomach/abdomen from vaping consistent long draws.

If it hurts, maybe you shouldn't do that? It is possible that you have a mild allergy to propylene glycol, have you tried using VG-based liquid?

my nose sometimes feels like a rock and hurts to move it from constantly blowing the vapor through my nostrils

You know there's no rule that says you have to inhale or exhale through your nose every time, right? Granted, I frequently french inhale/exhale to get the full flavor I'm vaping and the vapor sometimes dries my sinuses a little, but its nothing that can't be fixed with a kleenex.

lower side pains and nose pains are enough to conclude it's a terrible thing

I get a pain in my lower side and legs sometimes--should I conclude that jogging is a terrible thing?

we must seek the Lord and give up these alternatives which are indeed another unclean fleshly lust for the mind-altering nicotine

What does seeking the Lord have to do with determining that nicotine is an unclean fleshly lust?

We know that nicotine is addictive, but "mind-altering" is a bit of a stretch. The phsycoactive effects of nicotine are comparable to caffeine or carbohydrates.....Oooh, speaking of caffeine, did you know that a cup of coffee has 10mg of carcinogens in it? Yeah that's over a MILLION times more than the 8nanograms of TSNAs found in a e-cig cartridge. Just a fun little factoid for ya.

grace and peace to you all from our Lord Jesus Christ

With apologies to Ben Franklin, vapor is proof that G-d loves us and wants to be happy:

Genesis Chapter 9:13I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth. 14And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud: 15And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth. 17And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.
​

 

[JoeMcPlumber]

We need cold, hard, legitimate scientific data to support the belief that e-smoking is harmless to the vaper and to those in his/her immediate vicinity.

I'm quite satisfied with the evidence as currently understood,
and discussed all over this forum.

But anyway i don't think anyone has said, would say, or would even want to say,
that e-cigs are "harmless".
What i think policy-makers should focus on
is "harm reduction" and based on my research i very seriously doubt
that e-gigs will kill or harm people
anywhere near as much as analogs.

For me, personally,
being as these gizmos have been in wide use for at least two years
and as far as i know,
nobody's died from using them,
if that meant that i got to spend the next two years feeling as good as i do now
and then i died from "Sudden Nebulous Glycol Syndrome",
i'd die happy.
But i think that a highly unlikely event.

I'm one of those folks who had a very bad reaction to Chantix.
If the FDA had approved and promoted e-cigs i probably wouldn't trust them
near as much as i do.

- joe