Genesis style RBA's: How LΩW can you go?

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Kevin Brown

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Mar 8, 2013
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i still do not understand why people think its, "all that" with low ohm coils

i can out vape anyone with a drinking straw
3.4 ohm coil smooth as silk
of course im drawing it over a foot and two huge air holes
but I guarantee awesome

4+ ohm coils awesome also ... if can draw them over 12in.
using 5+v mod and special sauce

"it aint the ohms, its set-up and mathematics"


QddqW.gif
 

Jaseruckus

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If your experiencing ohms changing on your devices, something either got loose or moved. With aga-t, if your taking it off and putting it in other mods. The center post tends to get pushed in more raising it. Altering the position of the top coil. Also the top nuts on the center post can be tricky to tighten, I usually screw the middle screw up to tighten instead of the top one.

As far as the sub-ohms. It is getting ridiculous. 0.6 and lower makes no sense. I guess it's good for showing off on YouTube. But most people are satisfied with 8.0 and higher. All this clouds crap is nothing but a pissing contest.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
 

Kevin Brown

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Mar 8, 2013
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If your experiencing ohms changing on your devices, something either got loose or moved. With aga-t, if your taking it off and putting it in other mods. The center post tends to get pushed in more raising it. Altering the position of the top coil. Also the top nuts on the center post can be tricky to tighten, I usually screw the middle screw up to tighten instead of the top one.

As far as the sub-ohms. It is getting ridiculous. 0.6 and lower makes no sense. I guess it's good for showing off on YouTube. But most people are satisfied with 8.0 and higher. All this clouds crap is nothing but a pissing contest.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
Pissing contest are great never won one in grammar school but tried ewww nasty

and we are all learning we're the guinea pigs

how to keep that battery going and stay away from annoyed and ...... so you go back to analogs

this is our quest, sub ohms are awesome and after having a proper sub-vape there isnt without knowledge anything
that will suffice
 

Steam Turbine

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Here is a simplified explanation (courticy of the RC folks)
Common Sense RC

And, here's what *can* happen if you over charge, or exceed it's C rating when discharging.
Lithium Ion Battery Explosion - YouTube

What the video doesn't show is what took 30 minutes to do when over charging can happen in a millisecond when over discharging.

I personally choose to only use LiMn (safer chemestry) batteries instead of Li Ion batteries.

Thanksfor that.... I am now building a new coil...

I'm using an efest imr li-mn 18650 high drain but nowhere on the battery or on the website do they state the C rating... Do you know what high drain batteries usually have as a c rating?
 

aPandaz

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You should use IMR Li-Mn, your efest are like these. The video showed a Li-ion battery, don't use them in mechanicals.

Here is a video of Li-Mn batteries shorting:


I found some data on AW IMR C ratings:
18650
Test of AW IMR 18650 2000mAh (Red)
18350
Test of AW IMR 18350 700mAh (Red)

Max continuous draw on an AW IMR 18650 is 10A and 18350 is 6A.

Using ohms law and not counting for voltage drop on your mod you can use an AW IMR 18650 with a coil as low as 0.42 ohm on a battery that is fully charged at 4.2v. With the 18350 it's 0.7 ohm.

Know the limitations of your batteries and check your gear with the multimeter, that's my suggestion on how to be safe.
 

pdib

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I'm glad you all mentioned the IMR battery thing. In my opinion, that is the most important. Sometimes accidents happen; and when they do, we want our batteries getting very hot instead of exploding. An IMR battery will get very hot. A lithium-ion battery (ICR for ex.) will explode. I got a little RBA a few weeks ago, and it had a HARD short in it. Kinda freaked me out; but I didn't get hurt. I like aPandaz's #s (above). That's the same rule I follow;

.8Ω IMR 18350 ok
.7Ω IMR 18650 ok
.6Ω & .5Ω MNKE 18650 IMR (or any battery with above 10amp max continuous discharge)

This is based on being a little extra cautious; and on what batteries I have on hand.
 

Randy C

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I don't consider myself an expert, but I've used, built, and modified RBA's for well over a year now... I refuse to wrap anything less than 1.2-1.3 ohms. I've had 1.3 ohm coils drop as low a 1 ohm. Not only can ohms fluctuate... if a device is jarred or dropped- the coil/wick can move a bit. An RBA post might then make unintended contact with the next coil loop to the center of the loop that's connected.

I was a little nervous when I jumped into RBA's, I spent WEEKS studying them, asking questions, etc before buying one. I stopped at a local Vape store over the weekend. They were a "newby" shop; inexperienced with the products they were selling. The had a number of rebuildables on their shelf. They shop owners had never heard of an ohm-meter, and they didn't stock AW-IMR batteries. Kinda scary!
 

Gr8Scott

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Sep 23, 2012
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Firstly, I will not portend superior expertise with all battery chemistry, at all. But I have been studying quite a bit lately and will contribute these links from ones who do, truly, seem to actually know what they are talking about.(Because like I say, I, am still gathering knowledge, and am far from claiming such.) I will contribute the following:

First, here: (Candlepower Forums, by way of Google)

What exactly does "IMR" mean?

Yeah, it's a bit technical, but when the posting author states, in his summary, " Not all IMR cells are created equal. One cannot and should not make generalized statements about their performance, reliability or safety characteristics.", that seems something worth considering.

I also want to share this from a site worth taking the time to look over, specifically the chart middle of the page.

Lithium-based Batteries Information

Probably worth reading, considering thermal runaway doesn't seem like much fun. Whether it blows up or melts down. And short of chucking it into a bucket of sand, there is not much more you can do.

If, you even get that chance. (Don't ever throw a cell into water, K?)

Oh, also good practice to not just leave your batteries a' charging and go off and do something else. At least until you have determined that your battery is stable. Here is a formula from a post over at Candlepowerforums, which is helpful if you are really interested in safety;

1. measure cell voltage. if it's less than 2.5v, throw it away.
2. charge the cell. if it gets hot during charging, throw it away.
3. measure cell voltage off the charger. verify it's between 4.1 and 4.2v.
4. wait 30 minutes
5. measure cell voltage. if it's fallen less than 4v, throw it away. Otherwise record the voltage.
6. store cell for 3+ days in cool, dry place.
7. measure cell voltage. if cell voltage has fallen more than .1v from the recorded voltage, throw it away.

Any cell that hasn't been thrown away by the time I'm through with step 7, I keep and put into my regular cell rotation.

This was in the context of someone verifying the integrity of salvaged laptop batteries (Of which the intended use was for a single cell flashlight, not an e-cig, obviously held ALOT farther away from ones face than a flashlight) but if you look at it you can get a feel of what's necessary to determine stability of a battery.

And, here, I want to contribute a caveat.

I think it might be worth staying away from batteries with a "fire" in their name. It's just wiser, if for nothing else, value for the dollar. I know, so many vaping vendors stock them, but do the research and you will probably see what I saw. Bad performance at the very least.

Plus, when buying batteries of this sort consider some factories overseas in certain unregulated areas have been (insinuated from elsewhere) inclined to dissemble laptop battery packs then shrinkwrap them as "BlanketyBlankFire" along with a supposed XXXX mAH rating.

(Many times this is incorrect and I have seen batteries, in fact at one overseas vendor that advertise a " SuchandsuchFire" battery with the stated "mAH" rating printed on the shrinkwrap of the battery, and then list the actual mAh in the description for the benefit of us, the purchasers.

This in itself isn't an indictment of all batteries with a "fire", just something that has been stated in other forums. So take it or leave it, just consider it.

Yet I haven't seen any bad reviews of Panasonic, Sanyo or AW. Anywhere. Why not spend a couple of dollars more and worry less.

But, hey like I said, I am just getting my tootsies wet into battery chemistry, so do the research yourself.

I just figure if I have a potential grenade that I am puffing on, well, a bit of study seems prudent. So, study. Then study some more.

I don't believe in freaking out and just not messing with something because of a "potential" risk, but it would seem wise in the context of rebuildables to vape with a protection circuit of some sort. While you learn. Whether that protection circuit is built into the mod, or the battery if you must vape on a mechanical while you gather the knowledge that might save your face :D

And as to the original query topic of the OP?

I don't, knowingly go below 1.2Ω .

My internal safety "muse" says, at that point, "No No No, big guy. You have a lot of life to live still. Keep the Ohms above this and tweak the atty instead. Or just up the voltage. Or something."

That voice hasn't steered me wrong yet. :)

And, also; consider investing in a Vape2Safe magnetic fuse. I think I got mine quite a while back for under 10 bucks. And it's the reusable version. You just slap it on the bottom of your unprotected battery (in a mechanical mod) and it activates the protection if your Li-ion gets too close to the under-discharge range.

Then you can take the Vape2Safe off, let it reset and safely charge your 18650.

This is important, as most of the problems occur when the voltage drops too low and is then put on the charger. Once again a good reason to not leave your battery unattended whilst charging.

Also a good reason to consider a battery charging bag. Put it over your charger and it acts as insulation.

Plus, You need a multimeter. Seriously. Check for yourself the voltage of the battery, and when it gets close to too low, put it back on the charger.

Oh, and lastly. Invest in a decent charger. Nitecore or XTAR. The XTAR VP1 is a nifty device for about fifty bucks if you want to spend it, and if you can find one not sold out. EmpireMods has/had 'em.

XTARVP1-2T.jpg

They have a nifty lil readout that shows your exact voltage in real time :)
 
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