Germany modifies smoking ban

[jamie]

Small bars exempted from ban on smoking

31 July 2008

GERMANY'S highest court ruled yesterday that small bars and restaurants should be exempted from regional smoking bans.
It said the bans were unconstitutional because they "seriously interfered" with the livelihoods of these businesses.

Smoking bans came into effect individually in most of Germany's 16 federal states at the start of the year.

The fact that the laws allow bars and restaurants to create closed-off smoking areas in effect put small establishments that lacked the space for these at an unfair disadvantage, the court said.

The ruling upheld a complaint by the owners of two small bars in Berlin and a nightclub operator in the state of Baden-Württemberg, who argued that the legislation had put their businesses at risk.

The Constitutional Court said the rules must be redrawn by the end of 2009 and that, until then, smoking must be allowed in bars and restaurants of less than 80sq ft. As most of Germany's regional states have similar smoking laws the ruling is likely to set a precedent.

Last Updated: 30 July 2008 10:52 PM
Source: The Scotsman
Location: Edinburgh
©2008 Johnston Press Digital Publishing

 

[dnakr]

Now only if the US would see it like this... we might stand a chance.

 

[jamie]

I don't think that would apply dnakr. It's because German law "allow bars and restaurants to create closed-off smoking areas" and therefore "put small establishments... at an unfair disadvantage."

Most US bans nowadays do not allow this. Folks looking at the German decision have more reason to argue against exemptions in ban laws.

 

[dnakr]

At one time we did have the "closed-off smoking areas" and some (very few) still do. However, I don't think our government will look at it the way Germany is. All they want to do is completely wipe smoking out in public and do not care which businesses are hurt.

 

[TheEmperorOfIceCream]

Yep, the UK experience is pretty much like that. Good example was our shisha bars. People went there specifically to smoke shisha so the accidental harm to staff via SHS wasn't an issue. It was also the only place to socialise with muslim friends (apart from their homes) as they were uncomfortable around alcohol. They all had to close down. The US was more liberal in that case - I believe NY shisha bars copped an exemption.

Emp

 

[jamie]

In my area the hookah bars did not get an exemption.

 

[UncleMidriff]

Here in Oklahoma, we still have hookah bars as well as smoking in bars...for now.

 

[Lady Python]

Also keep an eye on Holland. They had a smoking ban imposed on the 1st July and it's going down like a lead balloon. Even the main ruling party's youth members are out on the streets giving away cigars.

The publicans (and others) there have banded together and raising court actions right, left and centre.

Ironically, the Dutch are still allowed to use cannabis, therefore their smoking ban doesn't make sense

 

[katink]

Ironically, the Dutch are still allowed to use cannabis, therefore their smoking ban doesn't make sense

Of course that makes sense: cannabis isn't tobacco... so it can't possibly be just as bad?
Just to make sure it is real healthy, government has forbidden to mix in any strands of tobacco with cannabis-joints...
So all is well now, the evil weed has been attacked and taken out! (goes around looking for smiley that is pointing at it's own forehead...)

 

[dnakr]

Someone posted on a different thread that you could smoke cannabis inside the cafe but not outside, and you can smoke cigarettes outside the cafe but not inside - this is too funny.

 

[Nazareth]

Now only if the US would see it like this... we might stand a chance.

we will never ever see smoking in public again I'm afraid- just too many anti-everythings that congress lieks to cater to- But truth be known, I always did feel bad for watresses who didn;'t smoke and had to breath it in all the time- but it woudl be cool if we had rooms set aside for smoking- waitresses could pass our meals htrough a chamber lol

 

[dnakr]

we will never ever see smoking in public again I'm afraid- just too many anti-everythings that congress lieks to cater to- But truth be known, I always did feel bad for watresses who didn;'t smoke and had to breath it in all the time- but it woudl be cool if we had rooms set aside for smoking- waitresses could pass our meals htrough a chamber lol

Hmmm, chambers could work or at least a private room for smokers only, non-smokers not allowed - LOL

 

[Nazareth]

I never understood why they didn't just cordon off rooms with exhaust fans that sucked hte smoke out- but hte anti-everythingers were apparently so rabid abotu hte situation that even that wouldn't pass their self-righteous finger-pointing accusations. Barrooms could section off an area just for smokers, have waiters/waitresses that smoke work those areas, and all would be well with hte world, but hte anti-everythingers didn't even want to smell tobacco when htye visitted barrooms apparenrtly

 

[TropicalBob]

This always bothered me. Here is government telling a private property owner, a business, that he/she must eliminate from his/her business the use of a legal product, the cigarette. If the intent of a prohibition on smoking is to protect non-smokers, segregated smoking areas should suffice.

But you are right that the intent goes well beyond that. It goes all the way to a tobacco-free world. No one will use tobacco or nicotine in any non-medicinal form, in this ideal world of the anti's.

 

[leaford]

In CA at least, they can set up a ventillated room, BUT it has to be an entirely owner-operated establishment, since they can't "make" employees work in that environment. There's only 1 cigar room in SF that I am aware of.

 

[dnakr]

In CA at least, they can set up a ventillated room, BUT it has to be an entirely owner-operated establishment, since they can't "make" employees work in that environment. There's only 1 cigar room in SF that I am aware of.

I bet their insurance rates sky rocketed because of this. If the government can't get you one way, they find other ways. Is it a sad sad thing.

 

[Tee Cee Trade Nld]

in holland, you are allmost not alllowed to smoke in your own car..... it's getting little crazy right?

in HK some PARKS you are not allowed to smoke either, hahaha

 

[TropicalBob]

TeeCee, the area of the United States I'm in has a complete ban on smoking anything in any park or on any beach or in any stadium. There are bans in some areas for smoking on a sidewalk. Understand that four out of five people don't smoke anything, don't like the smell of exhaled tobacco smoke, see only cigarette butts littering streets, and ultimately want smoking products banned. Smokers are somewhere below whale poop on the social-acceptance scale. Things will not get better.

Our hope is the e-cig.

 

[Threshold]

The fact that pot got mentioned on this thread .., i was wondering can one vaporise THC with an eciggy? anyone tried it? thanks.

 

[ApOsTle51]

The fact that pot got mentioned on this thread .., i was wondering can one vaporise THC with an eciggy? anyone tried it? thanks.

i dont personally want this great forum to start down that route...