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Get colder vape?

Discussion in 'Coil Builds' started by jakab, Aug 25, 2019.

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  1. jakab

    jakab Full Member

    Aug 25, 2019
    I'm kinda new to vaping and have a RTA.
    The problem is that I constantly get lip/tongue/mouth burns since my vape air is too hot.
    I'm switching between single 0.35 ohm A1 and Ni80 alien and double 0.5 ohm alien A1.
    I'm now burning at about 15W, which I do not particularly like, but everything above that is too hot.

    The Ni80 single coil setup is a bit better, since it's ramp up time is quicker, so I don't drag that much.

    What am I doing wrong? Ideally I would like
    - fast ramp up time
    - cold vape with longer drags
    - moderate clouds

    I also mix my liquids about 80/20 VG/PG, this should be fine, right?
    Would switching to TC with SS coils help? Perhaps 0.35 claptons? Please help.
     
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  2. Jebbn

    Jebbn Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    what rta are you using?
    I like a cooler vape.
    I DL, prefer top air flow rta's, single coils, round wire, SS 316l 28ga @ .65Ohm to .75Ohm.
    I set TC to 180 to 200c. Generally 185-190c
     
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  3. jakab

    jakab Full Member

    Aug 25, 2019
    I'm using supreme v2, I like it since the coil is at the bottom and it's very easy to wick. I also have a wasp nano rta, but that's even worse.

    Whats the + for top flow?
     
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  4. Mordacai

    Mordacai Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 16, 2019
    UK
    If I have got what you're saying @jakab, you're using a 0.35 ohm single build and a dual build with 0.5 ohm coils.

    If so, your dual build will be around 0.25 ohm. Coils would have lots of mass, so would longer to heat up and cool down.

    So you may well prefer high 0.6 ohm plus resistance. Less mass so reaches temperature quickly and cools quickly.

    From how you're talking about things, it may be that DTL vaping isn't for you exactly. You may consider trying different Rebuildables though, an Atmizoo Tripod clone may be of interest.
    ULTON Tripod Style 316SS 22mm RTA Rebuildable Tank Atomizer 2ml/3.4ml Combo (1:1) - Silver

    They're unusual, as they can do MTL to DTL depending upon how they're setup and they're a good single coil.
     
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  5. sonicbomb

    sonicbomb Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2015
    1187 Hundertwasser
    If it's too hot for you, then it's too hot. Vaping is highly subjective and everyone has their own 'best' setup.
    Switch to a much lower mass and therefore lower resistance coil that better suits your wattage level.
    Give TC a go, it generally among other things is a good way to achieve a cooler vape. Your 'Ideally I would like' list of requirements would suggest that TC could be the thing for you.
     
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  6. jakab

    jakab Full Member

    Aug 25, 2019
    OK, I've made a SS 316l 28ga coil (around 7 wraps, 3mm inner diameter), and I get quite a cold vape on TC. Not much clouds though... But better than a hot vape anyways.

    I guess it's a learning curve now to figure the effects of different diameters, wraps, wire thickness...
    I know at the end it will all make sense. Is there a comprehensive tutorial somewhere?
     
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  7. Izan

    Izan Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jul 1, 2012
    Mallorca, Spain
    Hi and welcome,
    You are doing fine. As you noted, there is a learning curve while you experiment to find YOUR best vape from YOUR particular set up.

    A very useful tool is : Steam Engine | free vaping calculators


    Do you use nicotine? freebase or salts?
    Have you considered using menthol/mint/ice type flavours that might simulate a cooler vape?

    cheers
    I
     
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  8. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    It's a matter of design and method. Increase the wetted contact surface relative to wire mass to improve vaporization density. Optimize the effective performance of the element with precision strain winding for the closest consistency to the theoretical resistance of your wind. The result will be a very cool dense output.

    Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.
    Protank MicroCoil Discussion!!

    Good luck. :)
     
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  9. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    Watch this and come back and ask about what you aren't understanding.
     
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  10. sonicbomb

    sonicbomb Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2015
    1187 Hundertwasser
    Like Mac said, it's about the relationship between surface area (efficiently wetted with juice) and the mass of the coil. Lots of wraps of a thin wire is a good starting place.
     
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  11. AngeNZ

    AngeNZ Lunatic ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Mar 24, 2018
    New Zealand
    It's a hell of a learning curve. Can you try 26ga ss316l? that may get you more vapour, and you can control the warmness with TC. Next suggestion is ss316l mtl fused clapton wire. I use a 6 wrap 2.5mm id coil of 2*30ga/40ga ss316l. Fast ramp up time, and with TC set to 400f - a cooler vape. And it's pretty foggy, even at 25watts preheat ;)
     
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  12. Coolsiggy

    Coolsiggy Senior Member ECF Veteran

    I am learning and finding that Rebuilds is a art and personal choices. Low mass and large surface area lead me to using more mesh builds over wire coils. I find that for me...ramp up time is shorter, vape cooler. Down side is I run them at 35 to 45 watts vs 15 to 20 using wire wound. Now that we can finally get cut 316SS strips for our Unity and Profile, TC control with mesh has made my day.
     
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  13. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Cool curious what res for that higher mesh range. And your straight wire example too. The specs on both would be interesting to see how comparable the output density, in your opinion.

    Good luck and enjoy the vape. :)
     
  14. Coolsiggy

    Coolsiggy Senior Member ECF Veteran

    I currently wrap 26ga SS 6 turns x 3mm dia. = 0.5 ohms nom. and using TC with 25w boost (DNA). Mesh builds are Kanthal (0.2 to 0.15 ohms) mostly but did use 316SS cut from VV spools but I thought the mesh was too fine and thin for holding shape. I get frustrated with wire builds as they tend to be inconsistent depending on e-liquid flavor used...gunkup, flavor fade. I have just found mesh to be more consistent.
    I have shaky hands so fine wire builds are difficult whereas mesh RTA's I can manage.
    Guess this just shows that one size does not fit all.
     
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  15. Coolsiggy

    Coolsiggy Senior Member ECF Veteran

    ....just adding my RBA's are mostly MTL single coil...Ares, Ammity, Galaxies.
     
  16. Electrodave

    Electrodave LPV Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 14, 2015
    Denver, CO
    I like a cool vape. And I get it all day long.

    You're talking sub ohm when you should be talking supra ohm.

    No way you'll ever get a really cool vape with an RDA. I use 'em when I want a dense shot. With a tank, you need to keep the build resistance between 1 and 1.5 ohms. Run at around 9-11 watts. The vapor will only be cool as long as the tank is cool. As the tank heats up, so will the vapor. To mitigate this, I use heat sinks, and ultimately, switching to another setup while the first one cools down.

    I have in front of me a Lemo Drop with a 1.2 ohm build. On a mech at 3.7V, that's around 11 watts or so. The higher the power dissipation (watts), the more quickly your tank will heat up. I can produce huge amounts of cool vapor this way. My DIY is 98VG/1vodka/1 flavoring. The vodka thins the VG to the point that it flows more like a 70/30 vg/pg, except without the harshness. I want cool and smooth, both to the max.

    TC does nothing for me, because the lowest settings are still warmer than I usually vape.
     
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  17. Coolsiggy

    Coolsiggy Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Hi Dave, I guess this show's how individual vaping can be, cool for me is not hot. I would say that room temp would be cool. I smoked pipes for many years and this would reflect preference. I vape puff normally 1.5 to 2 secs 2 or 3 times in 10 mins.which normally would not create a very hot atty.
    I see the logic of surface area, mass and watts. So far the mesh coil RBA's are doing a good job for me.
    Recently I 'm not even sure if the juice I vape has nic, that must be a good thing.
     
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  18. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
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  19. Zakillah

    Zakillah Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 24, 2015
    Vienna
    Its not that complicated, really.

    The thicker your wire, the hotter your vape will be. If you have those 0,3x0,8mm flat wire "Aliens" (they are not really Aliens), then thats ALOT of metal and only little of it is toughing your wick, the rest is heating air. Thats why thick wire gives a hotter vape.
    Others said it already, using thinner wire will help here.
    Another thing that influances vape temperature is your draw. If you close off your airflow or only draw very lightly, the coil wont be cooled as much. Drawing harder will cool your vape down, too.

    Depending on what kinda power you want to vape at or if you want more/less clouds....the size (length and diameter) of your build will dictate that. Want to use more power/get bigger clouds? Just do more wraps and/or increase coil diameter.
    Of course, you´re semi limited by your atty of choice here also. You wont get tiny coils working well in a big atty. And obviously you cant install huge coils if your atty aint got the space/suitable airflow for it.
     
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  20. jakab

    jakab Full Member

    Aug 25, 2019
    Thanks. I've tried 28ga SS double coil many wraps (forgot how many) on TC and it's 80% better! I'm lacking something, perhaps it's a throat hit... But then I go up to 240C or so and it's much better. I've also tried some thicker single coil SS claptons and its also fine on TC.

    How can this be? If I set my vape on < 180 deg, almost nothing happens, which seems pretty cold :)
    I'll try the sup-ohm you suggested.

    Anyway, I think my drags are too long and power mode just gave me too much heat, so TC was really the answer here. Perhaps I have to change my vaping habits...

    One thing i do not really understand is when I switched to TC, my batteries and liquids are draining like crazy. Why is there such a difference? I'm worried I get too much nicotine, since I want to lower it, not rise it..
     
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