Giving up on e-cigarette
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CASAA does not claim anything is "harmless" or has "no known health effects" and none of the research we link to shows that ST "causes" cancer.
But it is scientific fact that, after 30 years of research, snus (a smokeless tobacco) does not increase the risk of any disease. The claim we make about e-cigs being 99% safer than smoking is based on snus research. Regardless of some types of smokeless tobacco use being tied to individual cases of oral cancer, the risk is still extremely low and much lower than the risk of oral cancer from smoking, alcohol and HPV. But most people wrongly believe that smokeless tobacco has a higher risk of oral cancer than any of those.
To imply CASAA doesn't "have any good intent when it comes to promoting or protecting vaping" is just ridiculous. 7 of the 8 CASAA directors are long-time vapers and we have been promoting and protecting vaping for nearly 5 years now - all as unpaid volunteers.
CASAA is about getting the truth out to the public about ALL low-risk, smoke-free alternatives. Just because you don't believe it, have a personal story about someone using ST who got cancer (is it even slightly possible that person also smoked? drank alcohol? had HPV?) or believe the propaganda put out about ST by the same government and organizations now lying about e-cigs (ponder that fact), it doesn't mean CASAA isn't telling the truth. Unless you have done all of the research on Tobacco Harm Reduction (THR) and can read and understand the "studies" like Dr. Carl Phillips (an epidemiologist with at least a decade of THR experience) can, all you can really rely upon is what you've been told in the media and by the anti-tobacco and nicotine zealots. Most THR experts can prove to you that what you "know" about ST is mostly lies and misinformation - a twisting of the facts like they are doing to e-cigarettes now. But you have to be open-minded and do the reading required to learn the whole truth.
Don't make the same mistake that non-vapers make (taking the media and anti-tobacco groups' lies about e-cigs at face value) when it comes to ST. They didn't learn these anti e-cig tactics overnight - they honed their craft on ST first and have caused countless deaths over the past 30 years by preventing smokers from switching to ST before e-cigs were available.
Ill believe vaping needs protecting when I see some evidence of it. Promoting the filthy habit of chewing and putting vaping in the same boat is a disservice to vaping. There are people with medical degrees who promote anything and everything, including smoking. Go ahead, keep telling people chew is safe.
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Vaping is not for everyone ... but for smokers trying to give up cigarettes ... it is nothing short of a miracle
Vape for the win
I so agree with this one! If not for vape I would still be smoking analogs! So bring on the Vape Baby!
Carl V Phillips - TobaccoTactics
It seems the 'good doctor' is a PAID tobacco industry pundit. This is, of course what CASAA really is, the mouthpiece of the chewing/dipping industry, usurping the Vaping community to forward their own cancerous agenda.
I'm sure that by far, most supporters of this organization are innocent vapers who think they are doing the right thing to help vapers, but they have not looked very far into it, and probably not past the front page of this shill.
I'm probably going to get all the flaming from this Scientology style group, labelling me as a 'supresssive person' etc. Whether you believe me or not, I will hereby affirm that I am a vaper, I love vapers and the work they have independently done for the cause.
I hope that in the future we will have an organization that actually stands for the interests of vaping, and not for chewing, snorting, blowing or any other verbs of tobacco that are known by cancer prevention organizations (and by anyone who knows people harmed by smokeless tobacco) to be deadly and filthy.
Given the amount of support for CASAA on these forums, there are probably a lot of die-hard supporters who will now target me, and cause me much stress. But someone has to tell vapers the truth about this lobby group. If necessary, I will leave the forum.
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Vaping doesn't need protecting? Have you seen the legislation forum here on ECF? Regarding your "filthy habit" comment, you sound as ignorant and elitist as the people trying to ban vaping. So your vaping addiction is superior to someone who uses snus? Well, guess what, my husband tried e-cigarettes and they didn't work for him, so he has your so-called "filthy habit." He felt "something is missing" from e-cigarettes. We tried everything - different devices, 36 mg nicotine, extra menthol, nothing worked until he alternated e-cigarettes with snus. My first reaction was like your's, that ALL ST was alike and caused oral cancer, but then I actually did the research and discovered the same people lying about e-cigarettes also lied about ST. At least his "filthy habit" doesn't blow clouds into other people's personal space like vaping does. His habit may even be safer than vaping, because we KNOW it doesn't harm the lungs or body and doesn't have any unknowns like inhaling PG long-term and artificial flavoring chemicals.
"Tobacco Tactics" is a propaganda site that lies about people and about vaping. You really need to catch up to speed about this whole issue, because you obviously don't know the good and bad players in this game nor what is going on.
Um, yeah, calling CASAA a shill for anyone is going to get you a little push back around here, because people who have been here since the beginning know what you are saying is complete bull. CASAA was formed right here on ECF by vapers. You can follow the whole process of how it happened on the old threads. Look at how long I've been a member here and how many posts I have. I've been vaping for about 5 years and involved with CASAA for nearly as long - from the day it was created - and currently serve as Vice President of CASAA. In fact, I just blogged about this recently, because the people trying to ban e-cigarettes call us shills, too: CASAA is truly grassroots, not a 'front group'
Those "cancer prevention organizations" you trust so much LIE about e-cigarettes. The same kind of "studies" and "research" they do "showing" e-cigarettes are "dangerous" (ie. studies that don't show any such thing but they say it does in the "conclusions" and in their press releases) are the same kind of "proof" they used on smoke-free tobacco. If anyone would be open to the idea that the anti-tobacco groups might have twisted the truth and used junk science to show ST is dangerous it should be vapers - they see the evidence every day that those same groups do exactly that with their e-cigarette "studies" and "research." Before e-cigarettes came on the market, those "health" groups tried to do the same thing to ST - lie that it is far more dangerous than it really is, a gateway drug to smoking, a threat to children, etc. And they got us all to trust them that we are so brainwashed that even when we KNOW they are lying about e-cigarettes, we still believe their lies about ST.
Go ahead - believe that ST is as bad as smoking and those lying about e-cigarettes today didn't have the same anti tobacco and nicotine agenda when they went after ST. But the science shows it's SMOKE that kills, not tobacco. And if it wasn't for an ST product, snus, my husband would still be smoking today. I estimate about 25% or more smokers will also find vaping is "missing something" and need a product like snus to quit smoking. Getting the TRUTH out to people about ALL low-risk alternative became my mission and people who wish to believe the lies aren't going to stop me, or CASAA, from revealing that truth.
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More evidence you have a lot to learn. Here is a whole forum of them right here on ECF: Smokeless tobacco
Please explain to me what my motivation would be to lie about smoke-free tobacco?
I dont give a damn. Youve had your say, I've had mine. Let someone else comment about how vaping doesnt do it for them and that they need a good healthy chew.
Your comments are skirting very close to libel. I am not paid to do what I do for CASAA, nor do I receive money from the e-cigarette or tobacco industries. Dr. Phillips does receive funding from BAT for his research on smokeless tobacco, but that is only because the people who control tobacco research in academic circles are only interested in studies that back up their lies - same as with their e-cig research. And Dr. Phillips wasn't a part of CASAA's creation - we asked him to join us about 3 years after CASAA formed.
If you are going to accuse CASAA of having a financial gain in what we do (as in your blog post), you'd better be able to back that up with facts.
I'm sure there will be some snus-using vapers along shortly to back up what I say, but you can just go to the ECF Smokeless forum and see for yourself, too.
If you are going to accuse CASAA of having a financial gain in what we do (as in your blog post), you'd better be able to back that up with facts.
I'm sure there will be some snus-using vapers along shortly to back up what I say, but you can just go to the ECF Smokeless forum and see for yourself, too.
Im sure you can round a few up. Again, I dont care. Your little club has pulled the wool over thousands of peoples eyes. You have presented no facts, other than tobacco lobbyist facts. Sue me.
With Whole Tobacco Alkaloid liquids, perhaps they don't. However, as those aren't exactly easy and cheap to find, I'd say there are a good amount of vapers that do. There is much more to cigarettes then nicotine. Together, those alkaloids create something of an antidepressant. When I made the switch, I certainly felt the loss of that. I suffer from GAD, and even had a couple of panic attacks for which I wound up resorting to my emergency Xanax to get through. I haven't had to use that in years, and had to go to my doctor for my first refill on them since 2005. Because of my diagnosis, thankfully I had an option to get through it. A lot of people do not, and I won't begrudge them needing something like Snus to get through.
Thanks. It helps prove my point. Id also like to say that I dont begrudge anyone for using anything. I just want transparency, and the fact that the cancerous, toxic habit of chewing is is linked to vaping by the group that has essentially taken over this place is not cool.
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What do you mean, proves your point? That I got through without other forms of smokeless tobacco? Have you any idea how difficult it is to get something like Xanax unless you have the medical history to prove you need it? Do you know how many other medications I had to try first before I could get that emergency back up? Add in the numbers of people who didn't have health insurance to do that both then and now.... A great number of people were self medicating via smoking, and yes, many of them may need those chemicals.
Oh, that's sympathetic... Did you miss the stage of development that teaches empathy?
You are honestly making yourself look a bit foolish. People who have been here since CASAA's formation know the truth about CASAA.
For anyone reading this who is inclined to believe the BS MonoNatural is claiming, I ask that you first read CASAA is truly grassroots, not a 'front group' and follow the links in the article. Also, do your own research of the successes CASAA has had over the years, not to mention our meetings with the FDA and OMB and our involvement in Sottera vs. FDA. Really look into and read our website information before you pass judgement.
You are also welcome to attend our online member meeting webinars: CASAA Member Meetings to hear for yourself who we are and what we do. You do not need to be a CASAA member to attend. We are also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/casaamembers/ where you can see us actively fighting against bans and unreasonable regulations and taxation on e-cigarettes.
You will find out that MonoNatural is making false accusations and there is no truth to what he/she is saying.
Im done with you lobby folks, unsubscribing from the thread, talk amongst yourselves and try to convince someone else.
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