Glycerin - Oh No - Not Again

[AmandaD]

The hall closet then....better hope my a/c doesn't go out in the summer!

I just looked at the MSDS sheet on VG at Essential depot. It states to store between 50-89.6 degrees. Hope this helps. Indoors should work without any problems. Unless, your toughing it out without air conditioning and or no heat.

 

[Wingsfan0310]

The hall closet then....better hope my a/c doesn't go out in the summer!

I store mine in an unused cooler in my walk-in closet. I broke each gallon down into four 1 quart glass mason jars. I figured I'd keep one of each out to work with and put the other 3 quarts of each into the closets for my heirs to use, because I doubt I'll ever use more than the quart of each . I'm just joking around - I think I'll make some soap and hand lotion to use them up

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Sdh]

I store mine in an unused cooler in my walk-in closet. I broke each gallon down into four 1 quart glass mason jars. I figured I'd keep one of each out to work with and put the other 3 quarts of each into the closets for my heirs to use, because I doubt I'll ever use more than the quart of each . I'm just joking around - I think I'll make some soap and hand lotion to use them up

Cheers,
Steve

LOL I started making liquid soap. Works great!

 

[Banana Vap70]

Yeah but...but...uh you're only spose' to vape Glycerin USP, and yeah, just make sure it's "phama grade" ...but is it 100% Kosher, that's the best, but, but so and so sells "food grade" but is it made with byproducts or is it vegetable...but I want "pharma grade" every supplier says there glycerin is "food grade" ...and I read to only use "pharma grade" ...oh my, I'm so confused...and according to the sticky....

Only the pharma grade of these materials should be used for inhalation, in theory, since all other grades contain contaminants to an increasing degree (the difference between the grades is the percentage of contaminants).

Pharmaceutical Grade - for human consumption including by inhalation
Food Grade - for human consumption by ingestion but not inhalation

If one were to follow the advice here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/277267-purity-pg-vg-peg-short-version.html ...we'd all be S.O.L because there is no "pharma grade" (in the sense of the word) to be bought anywhere...and if I read this right the only true pharma grade would be "synthetic glycerin" and it's price is equal to precious gems...

Maybe the sticky should be re-written to say "vape at your own risk, we assume no responsibility for your confusion"

I was looking into this the other day and came to the same basic realization as you have concluded here. I don't know that you can find any other then the "synthetic" that will indicate that it's safe for inhalation and that is the 99.7%. That being said, I do also think that when someone says "pharma grade" they are referring to the USP which stands for USP, United States Pharmacopeia, they test to 99.5% and that is what you mostly see because they only have to test to that tolerance. I was confused because mine said 99.7%, but based on what I have read, if it were actually 99.7% it would be the "synthetic" which we know we can't and don't get, so I have to assume that mine is actually 99.5%. I guess.

 

[18350]

I was looking into this the other day and came to the same basic realization as you have concluded here. I don't know that you can find any other then the "synthetic" that will indicate that it's safe for inhalation and that is the 99.7%. if it were actually 99.7% it would be the "synthetic" which we know we can't and don't get, so I have to assume that mine is actually 99.5%. I guess.

i got pricing with the msds from my rep and it is not shall we say inexpensive.
fear not banana, there is a sample bottle of the 99.7% with a 1/28/14 eta @ my shop.
we will get to the bottom of this.
we will.

 

[Banana Vap70]

i got pricing with the msds from my rep and it is not shall we say inexpensive.
fear not banana, there is a sample bottle of the 99.7% with a 1/28/14 eta @ my shop.
we will get to the bottom of this.
we will.

I can't wait to hear your results. I know that the jist of it is that the synthetic is more consistent and reliable in quality and their testing and impurity tolerances are higher, but even that is on their own accord and not because it "has" to be, so I would imagine the price would follow suit.

I should not have indicated that it would be "safe" for inhalation, as nothing has been approved as safe for inhalation. I do not believe there is even actually a "pharma" grade either, maybe that is what Dow is going for. I think we have either "Glycerin" or "USP Glycerin". Glycerin being either animal and/or plant based (industrial grade) and USP Glycerin being plant based (food/medical grade) the latter being approved for ingestion, not inhalation.

That is what I am choosing to believe this week.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I find this to be interesting as I have done extensive research in this area. May have found a reasonable synthetic glycerin. You decide. Link below and a partial excerpt.


ChemWorld Glycerin USP

ChemWorld Glycerin USP
What is Food Grade Glycerin USP?
Glycerin is a product made from Glycerol. USP means the product is approved for Food and Beverage applications. ChemWorld Glycerin USP product has been packaged in a class 8 clean room and is safe for all your Beverage, Food and Medical Additive Applications. USP labeling implies that it conforms to all the legal and certification requirements of USP packaging and manufacturing. People commonly refer to Glycerin USP as Food Grade Glycerin, but always make sure your packaged is labeled USP for food and beverage applications. For legal reasons we do not provide advice on how to use glycerin USP in food.

What is Kosher Glycerin?
Kosher means the product has been certified by the orthodox church as Kosher approved. This Glycerin Kosher product is certified by the orthodox church. Our Glycerin USP is Vegetable based.

What container sizes does Glycerin USP come in?
This product comes in 1 gallon, 5 gallons, and 55 gallon containers. Buy glycerin usp online today.

What is the difference between Glycerin and Glycerine?
Glycerin is commonly referred to as Glycerine. There is no difference.

Is glycerin natural form?
Our glycerin us USP and Food grade. That is all it is classified as, it is a chemical. There is no such thing is natural.

 

[Blueser]

I sent Chemworld an email about 2 weeks ago...here's their reply

We supply to quite a bit of companies in the e-cig industry and I never heard of anybody using Dow Synthetic Glycerin to be honest with you.

We meet the industry standard with Glycerin USP and Kosher and so far we had no complaints.
Let me know if you have any additional questions I'm more than happy to help.

Best regards,
Bastian Wache
Chemworld

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I sent Chemworld an email about 2 weeks ago...here's their reply

We supply to quite a bit of companies in the e-cig industry and I never heard of anybody using Dow Synthetic Glycerin to be honest with you.

We meet the industry standard with Glycerin USP and Kosher and so far we had no complaints.
Let me know if you have any additional questions I'm more than happy to help.

Best regards,
Bastian Wache
Chemworld

I believe they do. If you look at some of their pics, you can make out a couple of our well known vendors labels.........LOL

 

[dannyv45]

Yeah but...but...uh you're only spose' to vape Glycerin USP, and yeah, just make sure it's "phama grade" ...but is it 100% Kosher, that's the best, but, but so and so sells "food grade" but is it made with byproducts or is it vegetable...but I want "pharma grade" every supplier says there glycerin is "food grade" ...and I read to only use "pharma grade" ...oh my, I'm so confused...and according to the sticky....

Only the pharma grade of these materials should be used for inhalation, in theory, since all other grades contain contaminants to an increasing degree (the difference between the grades is the percentage of contaminants).

Pharmaceutical Grade - for human consumption including by inhalation
Food Grade - for human consumption by ingestion but not inhalation

If one were to follow the advice here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/277267-purity-pg-vg-peg-short-version.html ...we'd all be S.O.L because there is no "pharma grade" (in the sense of the word) to be bought anywhere...and if I read this right the only true pharma grade would be "synthetic glycerin" and it's price is equal to precious gems...

Maybe the sticky should be re-written to say "Vape at your own risk, we assume no responsibility for your confusion"

I could not have said it better myself........ Well said

You forgot to mention that you should never by your VG from Kmart because it's not a pharmacy like CVS. So if you buy from CVS it must be pharmaceutical VG. Why because your buying it from a CVS pharmacy

But But But what if Kmart has a pharmacy in the store then wouldn't it be the same thing

 

[MD_Boater]

.
.
.
When the letters “USP,” “NF,” or “USP–NF” are used on the label of an article to indicate compliance with compendial standards, the letters shall appear in conjunction with the official title of the article. The letters are not to be enclosed in any symbol such as a circle, square, etc., and shall appear in capital letters..
.
.
.
Therefore, if you find glycerin labeled “USP Glycerin”, one could assume it has met the it the strength, quality, or purity, as determined by the application of the tests, procedures, and acceptance criteria set forth in the glycerin monograph and this has been deemed approved by the regulatory agency. Now, food grade glycerin should be labeled as FCC Glycerin and should meet the necessary requirements set forth in the FCC (Food Chemical Codex).


Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance.


“This response has been provided for informational purposes only, and should not be construed as an official interpretation of USP text or relied on to demonstrate compliance with USP standards or requirements.”

I'm glad we can put this all to rest. We have confirmed it via email correspondence, as well as an inside source. As long as they don't .......ize the USP logo, and the product meets the standards set in the monograph, it's good.

Steve - We ain't gonna die! Well... Well we are, but the Glycerine isn't going to be the cause.

 

[DaveP]

Right now, I have 200ml of 100% PG Dekang Tobacco coming in an 11mg strength. I plan to add 20% VG to sweeten and smooth it. My regular source for the 80/20 version is out because of the Chinese New Year. I'll probably use the Walmart Humco brand just out of convenience and the numbers of vapers who like it just fine. I expect the result will be good juice for vaping, but in a nic strength around 8mg to 9mg because of the dilution, but I'll be stretching it by 20% and making it a little sweeter, so it's all good.

Dekang Tobacco is just about nothing but PG and or VG to start with and it makes a great base for flavor additions. My favorite flavors are Lorann's Vanilla Butternut, English Toffee, and Cotton Candy. Heck, I also like their Key Lime Pie, too.

Right now USPS tracking says my order is stuck in Milwaukee and the weather forecast in GA says we are getting somewhere between 3" and 6" of ice and/or snow on Tuesday. I'm sure I'll be rambling through my reject box for juices to vape before the postman gets thawed out and delivers it.

ETA: the USPS update says it's now in Opa Locka, Florida and ready to ride up I-75 to my house. Go figure ... They had to fly over Atlanta and then my house to deliver it to South Florida (Miami). I'm thinking it was supposed to get off at Hartsfield. Now, it will probably ride in an 18 wheeler for a couple of days. It should be well shaken by the time I get it and the ice will be melted by then.

 

[18350]

well the optim is pretty amazing stuff.
on its own it is missing that sweet to sharp flavor fade that "normal" glycerin has when i taste it alone.
when used to extract a single ingredient/ flavor the flavor is much more pronounced and complete.
vaped alone the mouth feel of the vapor is less greasy on exhale.

ive run the #'s for a limited run.
at a retail level a product made with this will no doubt cost more.
material price of $100 a gallon vs $150 for 5 gallons of the standard.

in a market dominated by chi-juice chemical appletini @ $1.99 30ml i dont see this being viable.
the established profit margins are rather healthy using the cheapest chems available.

for an educated high end user concerned with the quality of things ingested, definitely an option.
the pricing still comes in surprisingly competitive with other "top tier" juices.

once scaled up to a production level the cost would drop in bulk as well making it even more attractive.

 

[Blueser]

Interesting...seems like I requested a sample, maybe from Chemworld or Dow, can't remember but never received any acknowledgement either way. Do you see a significant difference in the synthetic Optim vs USP/VG

 

[18350]

Interesting...seems like I requested a sample, maybe from Chemworld or Dow, can't remember but never received any acknowledgement either way. Do you see a significant difference in the synthetic Optim vs USP/VG

sorry for not stating it but this is comparing it to both usp grade and Now brand organic palm vg.

imho the faith placed in the usp stamp seems somewhat misleading to me.
i see it rather than a guarantee of quality, as a assurance of at least a known level of contamination.
the producers are free to cut "x" much of a corner or not filter out "y" amount of that other stuff.
the final level of purity is hardest to hit and the most expensive.
usp just sets the levels of crud that is ok to them.
how much piss is ok in a pool?
how much piss is ok in my beer?

please take my .02 at their cost and worth.

 

[StrappedKaos]

There are higher grades of VG but only for pharmaceutical needs.

 

[Hoosier]

There are higher grades of VG but only for pharmaceutical needs.

Um, yes there are more pure grades of VG, but are usually for scientific use like in a very precise chemistry experiment, because USP is for Pharmaceutical use. (I capitalized the P in pharma and the P in USP to show where the P in USP comes from.)

The higher grades are sometimes referred to as reagent and will have a purity noted with it.

 

[MorpheusPA]

If it says USP and doesn't list any other ingredients, it's good for vaping, although there are people who swear that VG from one source is sweeter than that from another source.

Both of these are 99.5% pure USP VG. We don't know what the other .5% is. Since VG readily absorbs water from the air, the other .5% is probably H2O. It's the same with alcohol. When you open the bottle, the proof level drops a little as it absorbs water from the air.

For USP grade, if memory serves the other 0.5% is required to be a GRAS chemical as well.

In VG's case, that's almost always water as the stuff absorbs it like nobody's business and making completely anhydrous VG would be expensive (and pointless in our case as it'd cease to be anhydrous as soon as it's opened in air with any humidity). However, I'm certainly not saying it couldn't be something else...as long as that something else is GRAS.

 

[MorpheusPA]

Essential depot is USP grade. Here is a link for review. Never the less I have it and love it.
http://www.essentialdepot.com/servlet/the-Glycerin-USP-Kosher-Vegetable/Categories

Ditto. Great stuff.

Warranted, it ceased to be USP grade the instant I opened it in my kitchen (I'll guarantee a fleck of dust or two got in there). I find that this doesn't concern me in the slightest.

 

[Stosh]

Um, yes there are more pure grades of VG, but are usually for scientific use like in a very precise chemistry experiment, because USP is for Pharmaceutical use. (I capitalized the P in pharma and the P in USP to show where the P in USP comes from.)

The higher grades are sometimes referred to as reagent and will have a purity noted with it.

Be very careful with higher grades of purity, how they get there is important.

We all use PGA, everclear at 95% alcohol - 5% water, a purer 99%+ reagent version is available with the water "washed" out using benzine (with 1% or so left in) This was important to know in college when using chem lab supplies to make jungle juice.