FDA Godshall interview exposes how FDA deeming reg bans nearly all e-cig, how vapers can fight back

[Kent C]

The need was there without the TC lies. vaping would've happened anyway, the lies just sped up the process of people switching to them.

If e-cigs were invented by Hon Lik to help with his and other people's smoking addiction, after smoking killed or helped kill his father, in China, a country where smoking was widesperead and not being attacked, he still might have been motivated in part by an opportunity he saw brought on by the war on smoking in the West. But maybe not. Either way, they'd still have been invented and likely improved upon, similar to how they have been.

Almost exactly what I thought after reading Luisa's reply, including Hon Lik part, before reading yours. Thanks!

 

[rico942]

Lithium-ion batteries have made PVs practical, most of us probably would not want to wear a NiCd backpack to enjoy a good vape ...

The next big breakthroughs in battery technology will be driven by the cell phone and electric car markets, but vapers will certainly benefit from this ...

As a (retired) mechanical designer, it pains me to see PV enclosure design driven by battery size, when the primary consideration should be style and convenience ...

I suspect that the next generation of PVs will be very different, cigalike size with mod performance ...

I never got the flying car that Popular Science promised us in the 50s, but I WILL have my stealth PV that will last a couple of days without recharging ...

 

[nicnik]

I suspect that the next generation of PVs will be very different, cigalike size with mod performance ...

That's when vaping will REALLY take off.

 

[nicnik]

Lithium-ion batteries have made PVs practical, most of us probably would not want to wear a NiCd backpack to enjoy a good vape ...

The next big breakthroughs in battery technology will be driven by the cell phone and electric car markets, but vapers will certainly benefit from this ...

As a (retired) mechanical designer, it pains me to see PV enclosure design driven by battery size, when the primary consideration should be style and convenience ...

I suspect that the next generation of PVs will be very different, cigalike size with mod performance ...

I never got the flying car that Popular Science promised us in the 50s, but I WILL have my stealth PV that will last a couple of days without recharging ...

How will they get around the heat being very close to the fingers? If cig size with high heat, there won't be much between the fingers and the coil. Could it ever be designed with the coil near the bottom (the top being the mouthpiece)?

 

[nicnik]

I don't understand that sentence and I suspect a typo is involved. Is it a quote from one of the articles?

Never mind. I get it, now.

 

[rico942]

Maybe with transducers ?

 

[nicnik]

I will just note here that it is one thing to say, "no never smoking youth user is not going to try vaping then smoke, according to most studies." That's fine, that's (mostly) factual, that works for positioning vaping in proper light. But it also denies some realities of youth smoking and that youth will be segment of market that smokes/vapes, and that they, or rather we, are all in it together. Thing is, they are clearly being lied to / manipulated and essentially told to take it lying down. We (adults) are fighting it, and when we do, it impacts them (and us). Have to engage in a bit of adultism (i.e. their bodies are different than ours) to make it seem like they are not in the fight we are in, and that the lies being told to them, and about them, are somehow more politically viable. Even OP knows that's a big pile of ANTZ manure.

There are also some big differences in the situation with teenagers. They are up against many restrictions in many areas. There's much more effort to control their lives than ours. The way I felt about things when I was a teenager, had this been an issue, I wouldn't have been too worked up about it, it just would have been grouped together with a lot of other oppression in my mind, and I would've rejected it by something more along the lines of ignoring it except for making fun of it.

Teenagers might be being lied to about vaping even more than we are, but they have access to the same info as we. They are being lied about regarding vaping more, too, but I suspect care a lot less.

 

[SomeTexan]

That's when vaping will REALLY take off.

Why do you think that? So small you will have to fill them more than a dripper. To get decent airflow they would have to be littered with holes that would be way to easy to obstruct with your fingers. Quite a few of us want nothing to do with anything that looks like a cigarette.

 

[Kent C]

That's when vaping will REALLY take off.

Why do you think that? So small you will have to fill them more than a dripper. To get decent airflow they would have to be littered with holes that would be way to easy to obstruct with your fingers. Quite a few of us want nothing to do with anything that looks like a cigarette.

Pretty sure that was tongue in cheek. ;- )

 

[nicnik]

I will just note here that it is one thing to say, "no never smoking youth user is not going to try vaping then smoke, according to most studies." That's fine, that's (mostly) factual, that works for positioning vaping in proper light

I think that you didn't mean it literally and that threw me off. No studies say that. It was an exageration not to be taken literally, I guess, and if so I get your point. They almost are saying, "OF COURSE many kids who try an e-cig go on to become smokers! It's just COMMON SENSE!" (Just like the sun used to orbit around the earth - common sense.)

 

[nicnik]

Why do you think that? So small you will have to fill them more than a dripper. To get decent airflow they would have to be littered with holes that would be way to easy to obstruct with your fingers. Quite a few of us want nothing to do with anything that looks like a cigarette.

Good points!

 

[Jman8]

I don't understand that sentence and I suspect a typo is involved. Is it a quote from one of the articles?

It's me paraphrasing what a THR advocate would say, and probably how they would put it (typos and all).

 

[nicnik]

Pretty sure that was tongue in cheek. ;- )

If you're referring to my comment, no. I'd love to believe it can be done well, because I would like it. Maybe plenty of other people, too, but I wasn't thinking too far. Probably lots and lots of vapers wouldn't be interested.

 

[Kent C]

If you're referring to my comment, no. I'd love to believe it can be done well, because I would like it. Maybe plenty of other people, too, but I wasn't thinking too far. Probably lots and lots of vapers wouldn't be interested.

Lol.. ok. Well, I got a good laugh out of it, even though it's not what you intended. Given sales of ecigs, they REALLY have taken off, though. I don't see cigalikes 'leading the way' to more, no matter how 'efficient' they are.

 

[nicnik]

So that's healthcare costs. Not fair to not use all costs and savings to justify taxing the cost to society.

We got away with not paying nearly enough tax all these years, would be the implication. Fuel for people to support taxing the hell out of all those former smokers turned vapers.

Not too long ago, Bill G. mentioned, maybe linked to a Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids article in defense of not including the cost savings. I searched, and found what I think is probably the article:
https://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0036.pdf

They set the table by arguing against a different argument in an attempt to make people feel like it's morbidly nauseating and evil to consider any benefits from death. They wait 'til near the end to more directly go after their real target, the argument that they are actually trying to defend against.

The overall suggestion in the whole of these questionable calculations over the years has been that smokers are causing huge financial costs to society, but a lot of the times the attempted justification is cost to a state, where it's more difficult to make an argument of savings from early deaths, since those savings are mostly federal money. But it's all the same in the end. No one's suggesting any rebates for the federal savings, and the federal government wouldn't have as much money to give to states without those savings. These are attempts at distracting and confusing, and thereby extorting.

 

[nicnik]

Not too long ago, Bill G. mentioned, maybe linked to a Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids article in defense of not including the cost savings. I searched, and found what I think is probably the article:
https://www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets/pdf/0036.pdf

Some of ANTZ arguments would lead you to believe that you (or perhaps your estate or your family) should be charged a hefty penalty for commiting suicide.

 

[AndriaD]

How will they get around the heat being very close to the fingers? If cig size with high heat, there won't be much between the fingers and the coil. Could it ever be designed with the coil near the bottom (the top being the mouthpiece)?

I found this to be one of the biggest drawbacks with the eRoll -- I wanted the familiar size/shape, but you can't hold it as you would a cigarette, because the atomizer is right where you'd hold a cigarette, and the body of it gets HOT. So you lose most of the familiarity-factor -- then when you consider the tiny .4ml tank, and 10 minute battery life, it's just not practical at all.

Andria

 

[Jman8]

Some of ANTZ arguments would lead you to believe that you (or perhaps your estate or your family) should be charged a hefty penalty for commiting suicide.

What a wonderful idea for another ANTZ type of tax on smoking. Brilliant, really.

 

[nicnik]

You could've gotten rich had you gone into the field of Public Policy with ideas like that. I was referring to how some of the accounting that adds the cost of lost productivity in early deaths, could lead one to the conclusion that ANTZ would be in favor of huge fines for suicide by, lets say jumping off a bridge, or with carbon monoxide, or maybe snorting Chantix.

 

[rico942]

I found this to be one of the biggest drawbacks with the eRoll -- I wanted the familiar size/shape, but you can't hold it as you would a cigarette, because the atomizer is right where you'd hold a cigarette, and the body of it gets HOT. So you lose most of the familiarity-factor -- then when you consider the tiny .4ml tank, and 10 minute battery life, it's just not practical at all.

Andria

Ovale reduced heat and increased battery life and tank size with the Elips, but it was too late, cigalikes already had the reputation for being weak and awkward ...

The fact that Ovale is now dumping the Elips kits for about 1/3 the cost gives me hope that they are working on a "big brother", larger tank and bigger battery, but still small enough for stealth ...

Ovale elips-C Kit - Ovale USA

I know a guy who used to smoke half an analog, stub it out, and put it back in the pack (which smells really awful) ...

Now he uses the eRoll and slips it back in the PCC, same habit with superior results ...