FDA Godshall interview exposes how FDA deeming reg bans nearly all e-cig, how vapers can fight back
- Thread starter Bill Godshall
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My wife had gallstones and now has no gallbladder, which we are now thinking was a huge mistake. Of course, the doctor didn't really discuss with her any other options, or what life would really be like without a gallbladder.
Since I have no insurance, the only way my gallbladder will be coming out is if I have an acute attack, similar to the appendicitis. I've had a few attacks, but they passed in about 30 minutes.
Andria
That's true. There's a lot of them around. Smokey Joe posted the results of a survey from the UK a while ago, it even showed some huge percentage of vapers thought it was as dangerous as cigarettes.
They aren't all activists with an agenda though so let's hope some of them can be turned around.
I've always thought that was one of our major fronts in this "war," combating misinformation. I don't actively take up the fight to combat misinformation about smoking, because usually it's just too far gone, but sometimes you have to. If someone can accept that secondhand smoke won't kill you, they'll see how ridiculous it is to worry about secondhand vapor.
You're right, this puzzles me as well ...
A new study shows that vaping is 99.9 percent less hazardous than approaching total strangers and making confrontational criticisms about their private behavior ...
I think it is more like the fight is in a holding pattern and the larger war is still being fought.
I think if you are truly concerned vaper who is aware of the great political issues at stake, there is incentive to fight back (hard) on the smoking issues / rhetoric. I think it is very possible to do this AND draw the clear line(s) of distinction between vaping and smoking.
Establishing the fact that lies have been told about smoking, means that when same (type of) people are prattling on about dangers of vaping that they are not to be trusted as credible source. And smoking comes up between a lot of the time and all the time when talking about vaping. The points about smoking that amount to lack of healthy behavior, possible nuisance and some degree of harm have always allowed for opening to present vaping in better light. But it's not like we only have that to contend with. We have the propaganda / lies, and those clearly stem from the dirty war our adversaries are comfortable fighting.
I'm suggesting we make them a lot less comfortable.
It would probably be difficult to get much agreement on how dangerous smoking really is, and how badly we've been lied to. I'm guessing there would be huge differences of opinion. I've read a lot of your posts, and you seem to think it's less dangerous than I do, but there would be bigger differences, all believeing we're being lied to, disagreeing about when, where and to what extreme.
But I do think vaping and smoking misinformation need to be battled together as you're prescribing.
I would re-word that to say not only is that fight over, but the "damage has been done."
see below
Yes, the foundation has been laid.
I remember when the ANTZ were banning smoking. At first, we could step outside our office building to have a smoke. Then, they moved that out by a number of feet. Shortly afterwards, it became having to climb over snow banks to get way out to the Siberia of the parking lot, in all kinds of weather, to sit in our cars to have a smoke. Then, it became you had to drive entirely off the premises in order to smoke, often outside of security gates. The ANTZ also advocated against smoking in some apartment complexes and crowded beaches, children’s playgrounds, etc.
All places that the "new" ANTZ are trying to ban vaping in......
Actions have un-anticipated consequences.
Essentially the rabid anti-smoking ANTZ created a problem that is now spilling over in ways they did not anticipate. They forgot to put the brakes back in on that run-away-train that they were on for 20+ years......and now those trains are going to keep moving forward in the same direction........
All that said, bottom line however, is economic. States need the $$ from MSA and cig taxes. Now that the anti-smoking banners have won their war, that money is drying up. Vaping is the most logical (looks like smoking) target for states to go after for the $$ that they need. And that is exactly what is happening.
By the time the FDA gets involved it will only be about minor details like packaging, labeling, etc. Because all the major damage will already have been done at the local state and regional levels with laws.
Later, we can spend a decade or so in the courts, trying to reverse some of the local/regional bans.
The last general surgeon we had in my small town, the entire 2nd floor of the hospital has all the nurses walking around without gallbladders. He loved to take 'em out. Often an unnecessary surgery, and yes, life w/out a gallbladder isn't great, since there is now no way-station for the liver to dump bile, so it goes directly into the intestines.
OTOH, there's not much you can do with a diseased gallbladder that is functioning at 30% or so. I had that test, mine wasn't in great shape, but I worked on it for the last 6 years making homemade beet soup and drinking flax seed tea, both helped enormously and haven't had any problems at all!
It was the stones causing her pain. Now she doesn't have the stones, or the bladder, and she still has unrelated chronic pain, and now digestive issues even when we try to account for her lack of gallbladder with her diet.
So very true, all of it. In 39 yrs of smoking, I encountered exactly ONE person who was allergic to tobacco smoke. But a WHOLE LOT more crybabies about the smell. So figure, maybe 1%-5% of the population may have a true allergy or some other actual physical problem with tobacco smoke... and though we're now down to the 20% (or less, since vaping) who just can't quit.... figure at the start of the nanny-anti hate against smokers, there were probably 30%-40% of the population who smoked... who were forced outdoors in all weather, and incrementally forced further and further away from the doors, till now it's necessary to leave the whole damn property if you want to smoke... and all those people forced to pay those outrageous taxes, thanks to those nanny-antis. And depicted as dirty addicts who just want to poison everyone with their smoke. Because of 1%-5% with an ACTUAL allergy, and a whole lot of others who are such whiners and malcontents that they're just not happy unless they're forcing suffering and inconvenience on those doing something they DISAPPROVE of. 30%-40% vs. 1%-5%. That doesn't seem fair to me at all -- but they've had it their way for some time now. I'd say it's about high time that pendulum swung back.
And all I can say to those whiners and malcontents is... DEAL WITH IT. Just like we've had to.
Andria
Don't forget that it's not all about taxation, or where you can smoke/vape. Companies can LEGALLY discriminate against you, for hiring purposes, if you consume nicotine.
There is that absurd notion, there is also "you don't agree with what we consider to be a healthy lifestyle, even though you may have made choices to in fact be healthier, because we can't tell if you're smoking, using NRT, or vaping, so we'll just treat them all the same."
Yeah, I realize I left that part out. It's even more viscious than just the 3rd hand smoke. Demonizing of tobacco users and vapers at its worse. And all nicotine, even the stuff they prescribe. Here, use this. It'll cure your addiction and kill your career.
I stand corrected.Actually Darwin wouldn't be that concerned - he'd figure no need to co-opt nature, it will take it's course
I am here to tell you that low-fat works, but very slowly.
But low carb melts the fat right off you.
I assume that the Paleo or Caveman diet would work too.
But I haven't tried them so I can't say.
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