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after reading the last pages of this thread i think daniel should just take a break and kick back for a weekend.. post a sticky or something about this and i'm sure all the early adopters will be cool with it as long as it's now known and taken to the manufacturers..
I would be willing to wait if it wasn't for the fact that I'm trying to get a review site off the ground. I'll absolutely purchase updated cartos for this when they get them, but I'd also jump at the chance to try something new to review.
I'm totally patient, though. I'll just go with the flow. I'm definitely not going to review these guys, though. The Ravens don't count
I'm totally patient, though. I'll just go with the flow. I'm definitely not going to review these guys, though. The Ravens don't count
filled the small one and even though everything in the package had been dry i got some kind of funny primer taste but oddly it was not the narsty taste i normally associate with chinese primer lol maybe some kind of tobacco or something idk but not too bad... Finally some flavor started coming through (using some grape) but the other flavor hasn't completely gone away... I can do both the suck and blow (hehe) to prime it and get occasional bubbles sometimes to if I'm tipping and moving it around (like when typing while holding it 
) and it's kind of ok if i go slow and wait between vapes but if i try and vape it like my vivis or 1.5 xl phoenix i get the scratchy hits really fast. But man the tanks look sharp specially the purple one
) and it's kind of ok if i go slow and wait between vapes but if i try and vape it like my vivis or 1.5 xl phoenix i get the scratchy hits really fast. But man the tanks look sharp specially the purple one 
I appreciate that guys, I really do but we will probably just issue a credit to your credit card. It will cost a little more as the credit card companies charge for the transaction, etc but issuing coupons would require making individual coupon codes and emailingg them for hundreds of customers...
We're going to issue credits about 25 to 30 per day. So please allow a few weeks to see your credit. We'll get this all straightened out. Many thanks to all the encouragement and understanding. You guys are the best!
We're going to issue credits about 25 to 30 per day. So please allow a few weeks to see your credit. We'll get this all straightened out. Many thanks to all the encouragement and understanding. You guys are the best!
So a couple more hours in, topped off tank & the dry hits keep on keeping on :'( So very sad that these were a bust. I DO NOT suggest blowing through these unless you intend to clean your PV every time after, it's a mess. Yes, your feeding the coil but you're also blowing juice out the connector. Dry pulls help, but a dry pull for every vape kinda takes the relaxation out of my evening vape. Putting my XL's back on & waiting anxiously for the new & improved relaunch of the Ravens May try to peel the tube off one of these & stuff guts from an XL like I've done before. I wiah i had a source for tubing, as I KNOW these could work by simply putting a CE3 inside, notching above the wicks & below the seal allowing for air & juice flow. Would have to still fill upside down to maintain vacuum, but a small price to pay for an all day bottom-coil vape. I'm no engineer, but I've done with a DCT tube already, video on you tube, "CE3 tank mod".... it worked fine, just not stable to take out of house :/
May try to peel the tube off one of these & stuff guts from an XL like I've done before. I wiah i had a source for tubing, as I KNOW these could work by simply putting a CE3 inside, notching above the wicks & below the seal allowing for air & juice flow. Would have to still fill upside down to maintain vacuum, but a small price to pay for an all day bottom-coil vape. I'm no engineer, but I've done with a DCT tube already, video on you tube, "CE3 tank mod".... it worked fine, just not stable to take out of house :/
At this point we'd rather not a ticket...it would be overwhelning. As it is we don't anyone to have to deal with it, to 'make' it work, its not fair. So just enjoy the unit. Hopefully they don't raise a stink when I only send back part of the units but I am NOT going to make our customers send somethign like this back, adding insult to injury, we'll handle it.
But you don't want the things back does that mean gv will take another hit or will you get credit anyway ?
i would have no problem sending them back if you need them .we need gv around you cant keep taking hits like this .
Thanks we've decided to just give anyone who purchased these a credit, no tickets needed (or wanted - lol)...
When, and if, approved, cartos will come on site and then they will be available for sale to use on the tanks you already have gotten.
When, and if, approved, cartos will come on site and then they will be available for sale to use on the tanks you already have gotten.
Well, I received mine today, and have been having nothing but trouble. Came to the thread, and have to commend GotVapes for getting right on this.
What is with this Chinese company? Why would they create such a great product, and then screw it up before release?! I'm pretty upset.
What is with this Chinese company? Why would they create such a great product, and then screw it up before release?! I'm pretty upset.
Appreciate the sentiment but hopefully we will have no problem getting a credit for these. Betterlife are actually pretty stand up with us. The main issue we face is just the effort and time that will be needed to issue the credits. We lost alot of sales yes, but once they get these working like they were originally expected then that will rectify itself.
I've seen it as a vendor with several products, they don't do it purposely, its just their QC, the centerpiece of which is consistency, is lacking at times.
personally for me a refund on the cc is not ideal but i can't think of any alternatives that wouldn't be a lot more work as Dan already said... And it's also not fair that you (gv) have to eat the transaction fees - too bad you can't get them to pay for that too since they changed it....
Well for what its worth, if it means you guys taking another hit for us not returning, I don't want a credit issued, put it toward your costs, is good enough for me. You help us, I'll help you. No credit issue please
But on a high note it did pass the ballon test .
I had a dream, a nightmare, and balloons with angry faces were chasing me, then they'd pop like a pinata on me and raven's emerged laughing like evil clowns...danno
I had a dream, a nightmare, and balloons with angry faces were chasing me, then they'd pop like a pinata on me and raven's emerged laughing like evil clowns...danno
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I do just want to take a moment to tell everyone how impressed and thankful I am to have such a decent bunch. None of you got snippy, were all very helpful and understanding. It made it much easier to deal with and also to go all the way and make everyone completely whole.
We could have said, "when they get these fixed give us a note in comments and we'll toss you in a few cartos, etc". But we didn't think that was fair for you and to be honest, the way you guys behaved, made us want to take care of you fully, no jumping through hopps, nada. Now at least you will be refunded and you have a little tank set up or two or three you can play with to at least make up for what happened.
We could have said, "when they get these fixed give us a note in comments and we'll toss you in a few cartos, etc". But we didn't think that was fair for you and to be honest, the way you guys behaved, made us want to take care of you fully, no jumping through hopps, nada. Now at least you will be refunded and you have a little tank set up or two or three you can play with to at least make up for what happened.
Wow. For the life of me, I can't understand what could possibly be in the manufacturer's head to do something like this... It is so inappropriate (to put it extremely diplomatically) as to be utterly bizarre.
The original Raven that was tested, that GV had agreed (contracted?) to buy and what they actually sent are two entirely different animals. They just put the same name on a new design and shipped it out without so much as breeze of consideration for GV or the customer. Forgive the language, but WTF???
I mean, I am looking at this from an "outsider's" perspective: I don't use BCs at all currently. So I'm just taking a good close look at the pictures and listening to what everyone is saying.
And it looks like this:
The original Raven everyone was waiting for was a BC carto closely analogous to the BC Phoenix currently used and beloved by devoted multitudes put in a pretty and functional tank.
This current Raven is not even a cartomizer tank - essentially, it's an atomizer tank. If you take all the innards out of a BC carto, what you get is a long-tube atomizer. Nhaler is selling atty tanks currently (for quite a lot of money) - something they've apparently been designing and struggling with for some time, but also something that some folks are fairly excited about, though it has mixed reviews. Obviously, it's not an easy design to get working well. Could it be that the manufacturer here decided to copy this design, and just didn't get it right?
Also, if you recall, a couple of months ago or so Chris was talking about a bottom coil design with adjustable intake holes to accommodate different viscousity of liquids - doesn't this design look like a step in that direction?
So what we have here is an atomizer tank that *might* have a possibility of developing into an adjustable intake design. And which is obviously not ready for prime time.
Why they decided to call it a "Raven" rather than something else, why they decided to not produce the original Raven design that worked well and was eagerly anticipated, and, finally, why they decided to risk their own reputation, GV's reputation, and a lot of money by, let's face it, "sneakily" substituting one for the other, is impossible to figure out, and, obviously, they are not saying.
Several folks mentioned that this should have gone into the Alpha first, etc. IMHO, that's not the case. And it addresses a larger issue that keeps coming up periodically. Ultimately, it is not the vendor's responsibility to test every product extensively. A vendor doesn't have the proper resources to do so. The best they can do is try it themselves, maybe give it to a few people, get some feedback - but this is not a substitute for true testing, and it cannot accurately predict what will happen "in the wild".
We do not expect every Mom and Pop store out there to test every food item, or every lighter, or every stereo that comes to them packed in a box from the manufacturer - that would be a totally unreasonable expectation when put that way, wouldn't it? So why do we expect this from e-cig vendors?
It is the manufacturer's (and/or some independent agency's) job to do the extensive testing and make the results accessible to both the vendors and the consumers, and it is the vendors job to evaluate these results, decide if they are acceptable, if the manufacturer is reasonably trustworthy, and, if and when something goes wrong, to take care of their customers and pull the defective product (which GV does). GV already goes above and beyond their nominal responsibility in this regard - which is particularly difficult, considering that their niche is new tech - and Alpha is a part of that.
But the Alpha program exists precisely to evaluate manufacturers, not just new products. In this case, GV was dealing with someone who had proven themselves reasonably trustworthy, judging by their previous products - so why would they stick them in Alpha? It was certainly reasonable to assume from past experience and current tests conducted on the "original" Raven model that this is a good product. What actually happened is so bizarre as to be completely beyond any reasonable expectation...
Dan, thanks so much for being so open with us about this thing. I just want to repeat that this is *not*, in any way, shape or form, your fault. Please take care of yourself. We can all do without the Raven - doing without you and Chris is another matter entirely.
The original Raven that was tested, that GV had agreed (contracted?) to buy and what they actually sent are two entirely different animals. They just put the same name on a new design and shipped it out without so much as breeze of consideration for GV or the customer. Forgive the language, but WTF???
I mean, I am looking at this from an "outsider's" perspective: I don't use BCs at all currently. So I'm just taking a good close look at the pictures and listening to what everyone is saying.
And it looks like this:
The original Raven everyone was waiting for was a BC carto closely analogous to the BC Phoenix currently used and beloved by devoted multitudes
put in a pretty and functional tank.This current Raven is not even a cartomizer tank - essentially, it's an atomizer tank. If you take all the innards out of a BC carto, what you get is a long-tube atomizer. Nhaler is selling atty tanks currently (for quite a lot of money) - something they've apparently been designing and struggling with for some time, but also something that some folks are fairly excited about, though it has mixed reviews. Obviously, it's not an easy design to get working well. Could it be that the manufacturer here decided to copy this design, and just didn't get it right?
Also, if you recall, a couple of months ago or so Chris was talking about a bottom coil design with adjustable intake holes to accommodate different viscousity of liquids - doesn't this design look like a step in that direction?
So what we have here is an atomizer tank that *might* have a possibility of developing into an adjustable intake design. And which is obviously not ready for prime time.
Why they decided to call it a "Raven" rather than something else, why they decided to not produce the original Raven design that worked well and was eagerly anticipated, and, finally, why they decided to risk their own reputation, GV's reputation, and a lot of money by, let's face it, "sneakily" substituting one for the other, is impossible to figure out, and, obviously, they are not saying.
Several folks mentioned that this should have gone into the Alpha first, etc. IMHO, that's not the case. And it addresses a larger issue that keeps coming up periodically. Ultimately, it is not the vendor's responsibility to test every product extensively. A vendor doesn't have the proper resources to do so. The best they can do is try it themselves, maybe give it to a few people, get some feedback - but this is not a substitute for true testing, and it cannot accurately predict what will happen "in the wild".
We do not expect every Mom and Pop store out there to test every food item, or every lighter, or every stereo that comes to them packed in a box from the manufacturer - that would be a totally unreasonable expectation when put that way, wouldn't it? So why do we expect this from e-cig vendors?
It is the manufacturer's (and/or some independent agency's) job to do the extensive testing and make the results accessible to both the vendors and the consumers, and it is the vendors job to evaluate these results, decide if they are acceptable, if the manufacturer is reasonably trustworthy, and, if and when something goes wrong, to take care of their customers and pull the defective product (which GV does). GV already goes above and beyond their nominal responsibility in this regard - which is particularly difficult, considering that their niche is new tech - and Alpha is a part of that.
But the Alpha program exists precisely to evaluate manufacturers, not just new products. In this case, GV was dealing with someone who had proven themselves reasonably trustworthy, judging by their previous products - so why would they stick them in Alpha? It was certainly reasonable to assume from past experience and current tests conducted on the "original" Raven model that this is a good product. What actually happened is so bizarre as to be completely beyond any reasonable expectation...
Dan, thanks so much for being so open with us about this thing. I just want to repeat that this is *not*, in any way, shape or form, your fault. Please take care of yourself. We can all do without the Raven - doing without you and Chris is another matter entirely.
have them make the units that LD demoed in the first place (screw the improvements for now) and i would be content with a couple of those instead of worrying about refunds or credits
Just sayin
Just sayin
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