GotVapes PHOENiX RAVENS

[ckone180]

Yes, when we roll out a product we take the time to do photos, proper full descriptions, the whole ball of wax. So when we found out they were finally arriving, so as not to cause any more delay, I prepped the pages with as much info as I could ahead of time. Then all I had to do was another hour or so worth of work, taking photos, going into Photoshop, etc, uploading them, annotating, etc. If you notice we are one of few sites, if any, that take professional style photographs, we do not use manufacturer pictures 99% of the time. We like to photograph from all angles and sometimes show them on equipment, etc

Just a FYI, on any major rollout it takes a good solid 4-5 hours of work to get them up on the site. So I did as much work as possible ahead of time as Monday is a very busy shipping day. I wanted to get these up as soon as possible since everyone knew they were coming on Monday. This really was a courtesy and in consideration for our customers.

This was my point. I understand this more clearly than I get credit. The point I'm trying to make is 1) hype isn't always good 2) this being new and untested by the masses, may be you should take advantage of your Alpha program.

The part that I don't get is why this isn't obvious to most posters in this thread and why I am being revered as clueless. This is business level 200 class here. GV made a mistake and are fixing it. Thank you for that Daniel. Why people are upset with the manufacturer more than GV means GV have done a great job with their customer relations, because any other time these same people would react differently.

BetterLife didn't hype this product to us.

 

[ckone180]

ckone, you keep bringing up statements that were made BEFORE the factory decided to change the design without notifying GotVapes about it. What POINT are you trying to make??? Dan already said that everyone that purchased Ravens were going to get a refund, so I'm not sure why you keep trying to beat a dead horse. If you are trying to carry out some kind of "Down with GotVapes" agenda, you're starting to make a fool of yourself.

You got me! I have a "down with gotvapes" agenda. That's why I spend money there. I'm a fool. So what?

 

[Sense Field]

Wow hear we go again what exactly are you trying to imply this time ?

What the hell is your problem? I'm so sick of you and your accusations. Get over it man...move on.

The design reminded me if another item that didn't work either. I was implying that perhaps Betterlife copied that carto and ended up with the same results.

Frankly...I think it's big of Dan/Chris to refund everyone's money and I applaud them...so what do you have to say to that?

 

[LordDavon]

So, Lord Davon, these are most definitely NOT what you beta tested?

No. These aren't the same thing.

Click on the attached picture. The one on the right in the beta. You can see the white top cap, and the silver from the tube that goes into it. One the left is the new one, with just a coil at the bottom.

 

[LordDavon]

sense Field" data-source="post: 7039190" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

What the hell is your problem? I'm so sick of you and your accusations. Get over it man...move on.

The design reminded me if another item that didn't work either. I was implying that perhaps Betterlife copied that carto and ended up with the same results.

Frankly...I think it's big of Dan/Chris to refund everyone's money and I applaud them...so what do you have to say to that?

Honestly, they are pretty similar. I took that other carto apart, when I was sent one, and it is just a ce2 cup, with some wicks, and a filler wrap, in a tube. It really isn't much different.

 

[IrishTexan]

No. These aren't the same thing.

Click on the attached picture. The one on the right in the beta. You can see the white top cap, and the silver from the tube that goes into it. One the left is the new one, with just a coil at the bottom.

View attachment 128818

They look different in circumference or is it just an optical illusion?

 

[ckone180]

They look different in circumference or is it just an optical illusion?

I think one is small tank vs larger one.

 

[dannoman]

I respect what you are saying but we didn't hype this per se, trying to generate sales in a nefarious way. Chris received these, tried it himself, gave to testers and they all reported back the same results, which were very positive - and this from a manufacturer who had already established a good track record with us (the Phoenix bottom coil line is a widely praised cartomizer by most measures and this has been through several reorders and production runs). He then came on to our own forum announcing excitedly this new product, saying it would be in in a week. We had placed an order and they represented to us it was ready to go to production line. Production, after they receive payment, is started the next day normally.

ALPHA is for products from relatively unknown manfacturers with fairly unproven (as far as we are concerned, we haven't had a chance to thoroughly test so we bring them in and offer them at cost or below). But for established suppliers, with a track record, and we have had some testing, those products aren't ALPHA'd.

Now, if something bad happens we honestly back it up as we have done here. ckone I understand what you are saying but we can't do anymore than that. Everyone here is made whole, no questions asked, and they get to keep all the product (for some it is actually working ok and either way, they do have a well crafted tank they can use with other cartos or to mod themselves for no cost, we aren't asking them to return them and I told our manufacturer we will by no means ask them to return to us to forward to them, some of these manufacturers insist on that)

This was my point. I understand this more clearly than I get credit. The point I'm trying to make is 1) hype isn't always good 2) this being new and untested by the masses, may be you should take advantage of your Alpha program.

The part that I don't get is why this isn't obvious to most posters in this thread and why I am being revered as clueless. This is business level 200 class here. GV made a mistake and are fixing it. Thank you for that Daniel. Why people are upset with the manufacturer more than GV means GV have done a great job with their customer relations, because any other time these same people would react differently.

BetterLife didn't hype this product to us.

 

[IrishTexan]

I think one is small tank vs larger one.

doh!! You are probably right.

 

[LordDavon]

They look different in circumference or is it just an optical illusion?

My beta was the larger tank. The ones I purchased were the smaller. I wanted to use them on the twist, so I got the smaller ones. It isn't your eyes.

 

[Briar]

I think I'll comment on several of your points at once - just with logic, no coolaid needed.

1. Alpha program is for testing the quality of the manufacturers via their products and how they present them. It is not, and never was, as I understand it, intended to test the products of known and trusted manufacturers. It is not the job of the vendor to extensively test a product - it would be logistically impossible. It's the manufacturer's job, with a vendor only able to give it a quick once-over, relatively speaking. Thus a vendor needs to test the trustworthiness of a manufacturer before they deal with them. In this case, the manufacturer was known and trusted, thus Ravens had no business in the Alpha.

2. The quote by Chris in your messages is from *before* any of these drastic changes were made. The Raven that Chris talked about apparently worked fine for him and a few others who tried it. Furthermore, as can bee seen in the pictures, that Raven had an inner tube and a seal. So this quote in no way supports your point - sorry, dude.

3. It is clear from the conversations with the manufacturer rep quoted by Dan and Chris, as well as from the situation as described by Dan, that GV was in no way notified that drastic changes were being made to the design.

4. As it stands now, this doesn't even qualify as "drastic changes". This is a totally different design - and one that GV was not aware of. The one the Chris was testing and talking about was a Phoenix BC in a tank. This is nothing more than a long atomizer in a tank. And it's not that it's underperforming. It just plain doesn't work, judging from the vast majority of responses.

5. Hype and everything else is entirely irrelevant. Nothing was done here by GV that wouldn't be done by any responsible vendor: they used a source they considered with good reason to be trustworthy, they advertised what they personally tried and believed to be a great product, and they got it up on the web site efficiently.

There are many ways to find blame with the benefit of hind-sight, if one looks for blame. It is just as easy to find good things if one looks for them. Had the Ravens been as the manufacturer presented them, you would likely be praising GV for getting these out as quickly as possible.

Problem is, Dan had no reason whatsoever to suspect that something this unprecedented was in the offing. Why would he? So blaming GV for an alleged "bad move", is not logical, imho. Blame the source, not the messenger.

Well typically the Alpha items are a small number, so I'm not sure what your point is.

Secondly, they were changed, this would've likely been caught before "hundreds and hundreds" were sold, by simply putting in Alpha. Bad has said this was a NEW design, just read the posts. New design, no track record.

Lastly, GotVapes is the ones that created this hype. They rushed it out because they hyped it and the units weren't here when they expected them. This caused the folks waiting to get restless. The restlessness of customers is what makes the rush to put them up for sale. Manufacturer's mistake or not, GV failed on this one. Sorry, I don't care a lot for Koolaid. You can have mine.

 

[Sense Field]

Honestly, they are pretty similar. I took that other carto apart, when I was sent one, and it is just a ce2 cup, with some wicks, and a filler wrap, in a tube. It really isn't much different.

Yeah...looked similar...that's actually why I bought it...thought it was a Raven by another name. Has the same sort if oblong slits. Didn't work at all though...bummed me out.

No idea why that dude got all defensive though...I never did anything to him.

 

[ckone180]

I respect what you are saying but we didn't hype this per se, trying to generate sales in a nefarious way. Chris received these, tried it himself, gave to testers and they all reported back the same results, which were very positive - and this from a manufacturer who had already established a good track record with us (the Phoenix bottom coil line is a widely praised cartomizer by most measures and this has been through several reorders and production runs). He then came on to our own forum announcing excitedly this new product, saying it would be in in a week. We had placed an order and they represented to us it was ready to go to production line. Production, after they receive payment, is started the next day normally.

ALPHA is for products from relatively unknown manfacturers with fairly unproven (as far as we are concerned, we haven't had a chance to thoroughly test so we bring them in and offer them at cost or below). But for established suppliers, with a track record, and we have had some testing, those products aren't ALPHA'd.

Now, if something bad happens we honestly back it up as we have done here. ckone I understand what you are saying but we can't do anymore than that. Everyone here is made whole, no questions asked, and they get to keep all the product (for some it is actually working ok and either way, they do have a well crafted tank they can use with other cartos or to mod themselves for no cost, we aren't asking them to return them and I told our manufacturer we will by no means ask them to return to us to forward to them, some of these manufacturers insist on that)

That's all I was trying to say. Thank you, and I appreciate your hard work. You sir, are a good person. In no way was I pointing a finger at you. You have been very forthcoming and courteous.

 

[Briar]

...so what do you have to say to that?

Wellll... I don't know what me1969 has to say to that (if he is wise - nothing - and that's a hint), but I'll say something: cool it, the both of you. Be nice.

 

[dodari]

I think I'll comment on several of your points at once - just with logic, no coolaid needed.

1. Alpha program is for testing the quality of the manufacturers via their products and how they present them. It is not, and never was, as I understand it, intended to test the products of known and trusted manufacturers. It is not the job of the vendor to extensively test a product - it would be logistically impossible. It's the manufacturer's job, with a vendor only able to give it a quick once-over, relatively speaking. Thus a vendor needs to test the trustworthiness of a manufacturer before they deal with them. In this case, the manufacturer was known and trusted, thus Ravens had no business in the Alpha.

2. The quote by Chris in your messages is from *before* any of these drastic changes were made. The Raven that Chris talked about apparently worked fine for him and a few others who tried it. Furthermore, as can bee seen in the pictures, that Raven had an inner tube and a seal. So this quote in no way supports your point - sorry, dude.

3. It is clear from the conversations with the manufacturer rep quoted by Dan and Chris, as well as from the situation as described by Dan, that GV was in no way notified that drastic changes were being made to the design.

4. As it stands now, this doesn't even qualify as "drastic changes". This is a totally different design - and one that GV was not aware of. The one the Chris was testing and talking about was a Phoenix BC in a tank. This is nothing more than a long atomizer in a tank. And it's not that it's underperforming. It just plain doesn't work, judging from the vast majority of responses.

5. Hype and everything else is entirely irrelevant. Nothing was done here by GV that wouldn't be done by any responsible vendor: they used a source they considered with good reason to be trustworthy, they advertised what they personally tried and believed to be a great product, and they got it up on the web site efficiently.

There are many ways to find blame with the benefit of hind-sight, if one looks for blame. It is just as easy to find good things if one looks for them. Had the Ravens been as the manufacturer presented them, you would likely be praising GV for getting these out as quickly as possible.

Problem is, Dan had no reason whatsoever to suspect that something this unprecedented was in the offing. Why would he? So blaming GV for an alleged "bad move", is not logical, imho. Blame the source, not the messenger.

Well reasoned, well stated!

Mine came today, same results and conditions as others have stated, no reason to harp on it. This a mere storm, storms end and the sun comes out, grass grows, flowers bloom, birds chirp, even Ravens. Standing by you Danno. This too will pass. You, GV, have been quite fair. 'nuff said.

Thank you, GV, for your forthright honesty. So rare today. Again, thank you, sincerely!

 

[Njt07]

I'm working on punching the inner part out of the tube without destroying anything but it's pressed in with some force. Is everything in the tube just one piece? The inner tube that holds the coil seems to be fairly heavy metal, is it same thickness from the top to the threaded end?

Errol

Im assuming these are press fit in. If you dont mind dinging up the flange and putting some nicks in the tube you can use a set of vice grips and pliers to twist the tube off.

 

[Briar]

I think the point that folks are trying to make, myself included, is that GV didn't make a mistake in this case. They are "making it good" not to recompense for a mistake they made (unless we count trusting someone who proved to be untrustworthy, but you can't operate without trust either, you'd be paralyzed), they are simply being loyal to their customers and putting their customers first - which is business 101.

OK, that's probably 'nuff of that. We all have our opinions, no need to belabor this further...

This was my point. I understand this more clearly than I get credit. The point I'm trying to make is 1) hype isn't always good 2) this being new and untested by the masses, may be you should take advantage of your Alpha program.

The part that I don't get is why this isn't obvious to most posters in this thread and why I am being revered as clueless. This is business level 200 class here. GV made a mistake and are fixing it. Thank you for that Daniel. Why people are upset with the manufacturer more than GV means GV have done a great job with their customer relations, because any other time these same people would react differently.

BetterLife didn't hype this product to us.

 

[ckone180]

I think I'll comment on several of your points at once - just with logic, no coolaid needed.

1. Alpha program is for testing the quality of the manufacturers via their products and how they present them. It is not, and never was, as I understand it, intended to test the products of known and trusted manufacturers. It is not the job of the vendor to extensively test a product - it would be logistically impossible. It's the manufacturer's job, with a vendor only able to give it a quick once-over, relatively speaking. Thus a vendor needs to test the trustworthiness of a manufacturer before they deal with them. In this case, the manufacturer was known and trusted, thus Ravens had no business in the Alpha.

2. The quote by Chris in your messages is from *before* any of these drastic changes were made. The Raven that Chris talked about apparently worked fine for him and a few others who tried it. Furthermore, as can bee seen in the pictures, that Raven had an inner tube and a seal. So this quote in no way supports your point - sorry, dude.

3. It is clear from the conversations with the manufacturer rep quoted by Dan and Chris, as well as from the situation as described by Dan, that GV was in no way notified that drastic changes were being made to the design.

4. As it stands now, this doesn't even qualify as "drastic changes". This is a totally different design - and one that GV was not aware of. The one the Chris was testing and talking about was a Phoenix BC in a tank. This is nothing more than a long atomizer in a tank. And it's not that it's underperforming. It just plain doesn't work, judging from the vast majority of responses.

5. Hype and everything else is entirely irrelevant. Nothing was done here by GV that wouldn't be done by any responsible vendor: they used a source they considered with good reason to be trustworthy, they advertised what they personally tried and believed to be a great product, and they got it up on the web site efficiently.

There are many ways to find blame with the benefit of hind-sight, if one looks for blame. It is just as easy to find good things if one looks for them. Had the Ravens been as the manufacturer presented them, you would likely be praising GV for getting these out as quickly as possible.

Problem is, Dan had no reason whatsoever to suspect that something this unprecedented was in the offing. Why would he? So blaming GV for an alleged "bad move", is not logical, imho. Blame the source, not the messenger.

I understand your comments, but Chris did indeed state this was all new, before any of this occurred. I'm not sure why before vs after the changes were made changes my point that if these all new units had been tested this could have been avoided. If GV doesn't wish to put it in Alpha that's their choice. I was just trying to point out that the program exists and could have been advantageous in this instance.

I was not blaming Dan, I don't think I once ever mentioned Dan being at fault. Dan isn't the usual face of GV that we are used to. He is taking the job very well.

The point I made about it being GV's fault was a simple overview of how this entire product went out. I have followed the Raven threads since day one because I too bought into the marketing. However, if you bought a product from Walmart that was specially branded for them, made by a manufacturer not owned by them and it turned out to be a complete failure, Walmart would typically take the blame. Right? Or would you thoroughly research the exact Chinese mfg who made the failure and post on a Walmart forum how the mfg screwed over Walmart. This is rhetorical because history has already shown us that WM is the fall guy. If you didn't already know BetterLife made the Phoenix line, and no one told you they made the Raven would you be able to find out? I'm not too sure because GV brands these products for their company. Part of the self-branding is to cover the mfg too, note 7/11 and Target products. Do you know what mfg makes the sandwich bread for Target?

 

[frankie1]

Well....I think this is being handled admirably. JMHO Another vendor that recently sent out an order that was missing a part (supposedly a manufacturer error) issued a credit code that was to be used WHEN I ORDERED THE NEXT TIME! I was unhappy about that....I didn't need anything else from that particular vendor. I do think that GV should make his customers whole, after all we are his customer, he is Betterlife's customer. GV stepped up and with great expediency agreed to rectify the situation....that is ALL GV can do. IMO, it is not my business to tell this man how to run his. When I need more product, I will look first to GV then to the other guy (if at all). Both end results were the same.....my order was corrected. The difference was in the customer service. GV is not asking us to spend more money to correct the problem. I like that and more importantly, I trust that. Thank you!

I don't like koolaid either....I prefer sweet tea.

 

[ckone180]

As much of a fool that I am, I do think GV has handled the customers very well in the end.