grasping at straws

[KinLEE]

Hello everyone...first post and need some help. At my work place they are going to prohibit the use of smoking on premises and vehicles this Friday, so most of the smokers have been venturing into e cigs...myself included. Today we were told that e cigs would also not be allowed on premises and in our vehicles because it is under tobacco regulation of the FDA. While I know an employer can make their own policies etc and we as employees must follow or find work elsewhere, I feel that there may be a loop hole to what they told us today. They will allow nicotine patches, gum etc but not the e cig. Am I correct in assuming that all of those are unregulated tobacco products? If so, then is there a good argument to be used to allow the use of e cigs, if they are allowing (and even reimbursement of patches, gum) at work? Any concrete documentation I can put together to help my argument to persuade the higher ups? I live in Ohio, if that will mean anything.

Thanks for any help and advise you all can give me.

 

[Rosa]

There's no loophole that I can find (but I am in the same position and I do vape in my car on my break and no one is the wiser). I don't advertise it, and if someone walks by I stealth my vapor and put my e-cig down for a second.

I'm not proud to hide my vaping, it should be embraced and I should advocate by forcing my employer to allow it.... but I'm poor and have two kids to raise, my wages are meager and I need this job. So I hide.

 

[NicLiq]

Ask them to explain how a Nicotrol inhaler is okay vs. an e-cigarette.

I would buy a PV that doesn't look like a cigarette and glue a medic symbol on it and call it my NRT device. You might even be able to get a doctor to write a note saying that you are using it for NRT.

 

[Rosa]

And, no, you're not correct: patches, gum etc are considered pharmaceuticals. E-cigs are still in limbo, neither tobacco products, pharmaceuticals, or "other".

 

[DC2]

While I know an employer can make their own policies etc and we as employees must follow or find work elsewhere, I feel that there may be a loop hole to what they told us today. They will allow nicotine patches, gum etc but not the e cig. Am I correct in assuming that all of those are unregulated tobacco products?

Unfortunately, no, you are not correct.


Nicotine patches, gum, and the like are Nicotine Reduction Therapy (NRT) products.
They are considered drug delivery devices, and are regulated as such and also have the "advantage" of being FDA approved.

Even though they suck, and don't work worth a damn.

Unfortunately, your workplace has made a stupid and ignorant decision.
Your only hope is to convince them how stupid and ignorant that decision is.

But before you can do that, you probably need to determine the driving force behind including electronic cigarettes.
You have to understand the frame of reference of their ignorance before you can educate them otherwise.

I hope that someone comes along with a better, more useful answer.

 

[KinLEE]

Thanks everyone. I figured it was a lost cause, but thought I would give it a try anyway. The reason I had thought that the nicotine patches and gum were unregulated was from a thread I read here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/legislation-news/182522-fda-regulate-e-cig-tobacco-3.html that was Bill Godshall's post...maybe I just read it wrong and got my hopes up that they were all included in the same category and I could present that to my boss.

 

[RIMP]

I say get one and vape in the john No one will be the wiser I work in a hospitsl with the same stupid rules. The nurses drive their cars off the property to smoke. At least I can go to the john or in a stairwell and vape Usually changing the "higher ups" minds is a slim to none chance.
RIMP

 

[Iffy]

I foresee a market for an e-cig in the prescribed inhaler configuration!

 

[KinLEE]

Yeah, that was what I planned on doing lol. I just thought I could present a logical argument to them, full of documentation and all to change their mind. I have a PV on it's way in the mail and have a crappy disposable one now. I took it into the bathroom and puffed away and then had my coworker go in to see if she could tell (even though I know there is nothing to smell from the vapor) and of course she said she wasn't able to smell anything.

Again, thanks for the advice.

 

[RIMP]

Thanks everyone. I figured it was a lost cause, but thought I would give it a try anyway. The reason I had thought that the nicotine patches and gum were unregulated was from a thread I read here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/legislation-news/182522-fda-regulate-e-cig-tobacco-3.html that was Bill Godshall's post...maybe I just read it wrong and got my hopes up that they were all included in the same category and I could present that to my boss.

The patches and gum are avail without a rx. They're regulated, e-cigs soon will be. The vast majority is not aware/educated as to what an e-cig is
RIMP

 

[newplague]

I'd say your options are stealth mode or a box mod with an "Official" looking symbol on it. Don't call it an e-cig, call it your nicotine inhaler, personal humidifier or whatever gets their minds away from what it really is. Don't advertise, just vape in your car like Rosa. These things work, don't let your job make your life any tougher then it is.

 

[MattZuke]

If so, then is there a good argument to be used to allow the use of e cigs, if they are allowing (and even reimbursement of patches, gum) at work?

There is the Nicotrol inhaler. One could make a mod that looks just like it, and no bugger would be the wiser, or heck "but ya'll said nicotine inhalers were okay, and that's what I got I tell you what".

I'd have to dig up the citation, but the simple fact of the matter is regulated NRPs are ineffective at promoting long term cessation when prescribed in 12 week programs. This doesn't mean they're not effective for long term use, but this would be a CRP, not NRP. So you should ask them if they plan to support long term patch and gum use.

 

[mohawkx]

And, no, you're not correct: patches, gum etc are considered pharmaceuticals. E-cigs are still in limbo, neither tobacco products, pharmaceuticals, or "other".

This is the actual facts of the situation. Good post.

 

[haft2doit]

Just do it anyway. Get a device that doesn't look like a cigarette and tell someone whatever you want if they ask about it. Also if you just hold the vapor in for longer than usual, the vapor will dissipate in your lungs and mouth leaving very little to no vapor on the exhale. It's very easy to keep vaping on the down low. Good luck.

 

[KinLEE]

Thanks again...I had really thought I had found a loophole from the other thread I found here. Oh well, c'est la vie.


Bolded c/p from thread here that gave me the impression that I had a loophole.

Today's annoucement by the FDA Regulation of E-Cigarettes and Other Tobacco Products to not appeal Judge Richard Leon's ruling in NJOY v FDA https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin...?2009cv0771-54 to the US Supreme Court means that e-cigarettes, e-liquid, nicotine gums, lozenges, patches, skin creams and nasal sprays are now unregulate tobacco products according to federal law (as long as no therapeutic claim is made by the manufacturer/importer).

These nicotine products now join cigars and pipe tobacco as unregulated tobacco products under the Family Smoking Prevention Tobacco Control Act. Currently regulated tobacco products include cigarettes, roll-your-own and smokeless tobacco.

 

[JoeDLion188]

This may just be an Oregon thing (and maybe out dated. They like passing laws without letting us vote on them...) but they can't actually tell you what you can do in your own car as it is private property not owned by the company.

 

[KinLEE]

but they can't actually tell you what you can do in your own car as it is private property not owned by the company.

Interesting. They have specifically forbidden us to smoke/vape in our vehicles. We are also not allowed to leave the premises (like go and stand in the street) unless we are scheduled for a lunch break and then we can punch out and leave the premises to go smoke...but most are part time employees who do not get a lunch/dinner break. A bunch of us had said we would just leave the property that we can't smoke on and stand in the street. lol They have basically told us that there is nothing we can do to try and get around their new policy.

More tinkle breaks for me, to stealth vape.

 

[tmcase]

If you want to educate your employer so he will allow PV use then you need to educate yourself first. Start here CASAA and then check out the casaa website. CASAA.org

 

[DC2]

Bolded c/p from thread here that gave me the impression that I had a loophole.

Today's annoucement by the FDA Regulation of E-Cigarettes and Other Tobacco Products to not appeal Judge Richard Leon's ruling in NJOY v FDA https://ecf.dcd.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin...?2009cv0771-54 to the US Supreme Court means that e-cigarettes, e-liquid, nicotine gums, lozenges, patches, skin creams and nasal sprays are now unregulate tobacco products according to federal law (as long as no therapeutic claim is made by the manufacturer/importer).

These nicotine products now join cigars and pipe tobacco as unregulated tobacco products under the Family Smoking Prevention Tobacco Control Act. Currently regulated tobacco products include cigarettes, roll-your-own and smokeless tobacco.

Wait, I did not remember it said that, and I can't believe I didn't notice it before.
You really may have found a loophole.

As far as I know all existing "gum" and "patches" and other commonly accepted "NRT" products DO make therapeutic claims.
But it does sound like someone could come out with a gum or patch that does not.

And yes, it is very much unclear how they would be regulated at this time.
So that might be an avenue for your argument.

I strongly suggest now that you have 5 posts that you go back to that thread and reply to what you quoted above.
There are people there that will see your questions and have far more information than most of us here.

 

[Pamdane]

The only loop hole I can see is to get a Dr.'s recommendation in writing.