H.R. 1256 Passes Congress...Here we go!
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]If nicotine addiction is a diseases and nicotine is a legal drug then anyone who has this "disorder" would be covered by the "ADA Amendments Act of 2008". Meaning accommodations would have to be provided everywhere and if not we would be discriminated aganist which means a lot of lawyers. The lift hand does not know what the right hand is doing.
Anyone for organizing a "vape-Stock 2009" protest event?? Maybe in front of the FDA in DC??
Not (yet) illegal to own, not (yet) illegal to use... they can't TOUCH us as long as no one does anything stupid and it would bring a lot of media attention to the cause.. even the media that prefers to ignore us!
Just an idea....
Not (yet) illegal to own, not (yet) illegal to use... they can't TOUCH us as long as no one does anything stupid and it would bring a lot of media attention to the cause.. even the media that prefers to ignore us!
Just an idea....
Nobody in gov't cares about what substances are dangerous or not.
Our representatives only care about:
What makes them look good to their constituents. ("it's for the children")
What can make money for them or their backers.
What they think they can get away with.
There are also enough grey areas and loopholes in this bill to make every word of it mean whatever you can imagine.
And this is the way it always was, is and probably will continue be.
And we all knew it yesterday, know it today, and will continue to ..... about it tomorrow.
It's the American way.
And if this were China and the gov't didn't like e-cigs, we'd all be getting agricultural re-education instead of worrying about our juice supplies!
Good night and good luck.
Our representatives only care about:
What makes them look good to their constituents. ("it's for the children")
What can make money for them or their backers.
What they think they can get away with.
There are also enough grey areas and loopholes in this bill to make every word of it mean whatever you can imagine.
And this is the way it always was, is and probably will continue be.
And we all knew it yesterday, know it today, and will continue to ..... about it tomorrow.
It's the American way.
And if this were China and the gov't didn't like e-cigs, we'd all be getting agricultural re-education instead of worrying about our juice supplies!
Good night and good luck.
You figure they would learn from prohibition, they are opening a market for underground cigarettes. Coming from a tobacco farming family, we have seen these assaults on freedoms since the 80's. If you break down there reasons none of them hold water, even keeping kids safe is a crock. Granted no one wants kids smoking (some will anyway), but what danger does it do to their health- addiction to nicotine and very little else. As far as stopping adult smokers, well I feel that the government shouldn’t tell me how to live or die for that manner. Cigarettes were not acceptable to sell to kids in the 70's when I was a kid just as they are not acceptable now, but somehow I managed to smoke anyway. I believe that the government knows this, but still uses theses BS excuses as fodder for their own monetary gain (taxes). As far as the health cost, no one asks them to pay more for our health than we already paid into the system in taxes. If you look at modern medicine, it has allowed people to live longer which are a great strain on health care also. Many people think that "healthy" means to live a ripe old age, but what they are forgetting they won’t have the same body now vs. 40, 50 etc years down the road. I frankly don’t want to be put in a care home to die. Give my smokes, my beer, and my good food and let me live and die the way I want. This is my pursuit of happiness .
Sorry-that's my 2 cents. I am done hehe.
Sorry-that's my 2 cents. I am done hehe.
I agree with the idea that prohibition doesn't work, but that's not really what we're seeing here. What we're seeing is regulation. Different deal. Most drugs are regulated in some way in the US. Nicotine is a drug, therefore it follows that it should be regulated. Alcohol and caffeine, the other two big ones, are regulated. The FDA regulates caffeine, and I'm pretty sure no one is having any problems getting their hands on it. Now that nicotine regulations are about to become law, the only other widely used drug that's not regulated is THC, which is under prohibition. It should be legalized and regulated as well.
This isn't necessarily the end of the world, people. A lot of the provisions of the bill are silly and anti-competitive but we really don't know how the FDA is going to approach products like e-cigarettes. There's a lot of doom and gloom floating around the board right now, and I think that's natural. But I also think it's a good idea to wait and see how things come down. It's not going to be like a light switch being turned off. If there are going to be blanket bans on e-liquid and vaporizer hardware, we'll see them coming in advance.
I'm stocked up with several months' supply of batteries, carts, atomizers and liquid. If things look like they're going south fast, I'll redouble my stockpile. Until then, I'm not going to be stressed about it.
This isn't necessarily the end of the world, people. A lot of the provisions of the bill are silly and anti-competitive but we really don't know how the FDA is going to approach products like e-cigarettes. There's a lot of doom and gloom floating around the board right now, and I think that's natural. But I also think it's a good idea to wait and see how things come down. It's not going to be like a light switch being turned off. If there are going to be blanket bans on e-liquid and vaporizer hardware, we'll see them coming in advance.
I'm stocked up with several months' supply of batteries, carts, atomizers and liquid. If things look like they're going south fast, I'll redouble my stockpile. Until then, I'm not going to be stressed about it.
In the link to "Super Cigarette direct from China" (in happily's post #22) it says their nicotine is extracted from "tobacco and other plants containing nicotine". (I tried to copy/paste the exact words but it didn't work for some reason).
Does anyone know what those "other plants" might be? (Something with more nic content than tomatoes or potatoes......?)
I completely agree with you on most counts, SM...
But, what about caffeine? Do they classify bottles, cans and cups... or even the pills and capsules you can buy at ANY corner store... as "drug delivery devices" since that is how you administer the drug caffeine? Do they regulate coffee pots because they are caffeine distilleries? If not, why do they think they can say our PV's are illegal delivery devices and those in possession could be charged (which they HAVE claimed - see the thread about letter to supplier from FDA)??
The double standards are what we will have the most problems with and I think Phillip Morris will push the issue to block the products competing with them. Or, am I thinking about this wrong?
Let's not be negative nancys here. I am absolutely sure the FDA will do as good of a job with tobacco and nicotine as they did with spinach, tomatoes and peanut butter.. The FDA has always informed us at to which products will kill us, just as soon as enough people have died so they can identify the offending product.
How about we market an e-cig with caffeine in it instead of nicotine... Just to muddy the waters up a bit. 
Well, since they also classify caffeine as a drug, yet they are not regulating caffeine "delivery devices" (ie: coffee cups, energy drink cans, coffee makers, etc) in any way, why not!!How about we market an e-cig with caffeine in it instead of nicotine... Just to muddy the waters up a bit.
How about an e-juice with BOTH in it... REALLY get their feathers in a ruffle! LOL
I think it won't take very long for tobacco companies to realize there's a very lucrative market in e-cigs, come out with better e-cig designs (improving a technology gets you around patent issues), and sell juice extracted from tobacco. And Ruyan can play hell claiming a patent infringement... who has more money to spend on lawyers, Ruyan or Big Tobacco? PM alone would bankrupt them with countersuits.
I personally think e-cigs have already reached critical mass. Not every smoker knows about them by any means, but those that do are very vocal about their positive experience with vaping. This will become a debate in which the FDA has a very hard time justifying their position.
I personally think e-cigs have already reached critical mass. Not every smoker knows about them by any means, but those that do are very vocal about their positive experience with vaping. This will become a debate in which the FDA has a very hard time justifying their position.
Wait wait wait... the FDA has to justify their position?
I say "nay nay".
Oh, and hey Werkit -- how'd you know my street name is Nancy?
Just saw the CBS News version of the story and like others they totally skipped the bit about PM helping write the bill and how it's really about one tobacco company vs. another with govt help. Not to metnion the fact that they just banned products that are virtually risk-free while grandfathering in the high risk products. Yesterday's version on web is at Senate Passes Landmark Anti-Smoking Bill - CBS News Havent found today's version yet.
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Highly unlikely. Hundreds of thousands? Maybe. A million? Doubtful.
Banning a substance that so many people are use is a bad, bad idea.
It doesn't make it go away. It just makes the business move to the black market, unregulated. It happened with booze back in the day. It's happening with marijuana and every other drug right now.
They can keep nicotine replacement therapy legal (ie e-cigs), and perhaps a lot of lives would be saved that way.. but if nicotine is entirely banned, they're just giving drug dealers a new product, and I have a feeling the dealers won't check for ID
It doesn't make it go away. It just makes the business move to the black market, unregulated. It happened with booze back in the day. It's happening with marijuana and every other drug right now.
They can keep nicotine replacement therapy legal (ie e-cigs), and perhaps a lot of lives would be saved that way.. but if nicotine is entirely banned, they're just giving drug dealers a new product, and I have a feeling the dealers won't check for ID
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