Halloween Horror Nights 23 Orlando 2013

[bluecat]

And back to my reply to that quote...it's THEIR fog machines, under THEIR control in quantities THEY dictate, with liability covered for THEM using the fog only...That shouldn't be very hard either. But apparently, it is.

Not to mention the fact that we don't know whether they're using PG alone, or PG in conjunction with dry ice, or no PG at all and just dry ice...but that's a whole other matter and you're having enough difficulty with just this much so we won't delve into the possibilities.

(Sorry, seems like you enjoy being snotty so I figured I'd indulge you.)

Considering that has nothing to do with my point.. I also agree with that statement about their fog machines) Again it has nothing to do with my post.

Correct on whats in the fog machine... I did put that in my original post.

My last post..

My point is not about buying or selling alcohol. It has nothing to do with purchasing it inside the park.
It has to do with the ingredients inside a fog machine vs our vapor (yes I vape) compared to the ingredients inside soda vs alcohol.

She stated there is PG in both the fog machine and her vapor. My point was it is like comparing water in soda and water inside of the Jack in my flask. There are ingredients in both and all.

 

[Oaken007]

bluecat, I'll indulge you and I won't be sarcastic about it... here's legitimately what I understand from what you're saying:

Since the fog machine has PG in it, and since your alcohol has water in it, you should be able to bring it in. Am I correct in understanding that? Now, my question to you is, if they sell it at the park, why did you feel the need to pour alcohol into a flask and bring it into the park? Is it because you want to save on money by not purchasing their alcohol? You did say "flask" so that means you snuck your own alcohol into the park - where they already sell alcohol.

However, since they don't sell PG/VG/Nicotine at the park, and since I need my fix, like you need yours, I bring my own. That is acceptable at the park, just like bringing in your own cigarettes is acceptable. And since people are smoking all over the park, why can't I vape while I'm standing in line?

So forget what I said about "my own little fog machine".... I'm just trying to get some vape in this hour-long line I'm standing in... Again, something they DON'T sell at the park.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

...Meh...never mind.

 

[Oaken007]

My point is not about buying or selling alcohol. It has nothing to do with purchasing it inside the park.
It has to do with the ingredients inside a fog machine vs our vapor (yes I vape) compared to the ingredients inside soda vs alcohol.

She stated there is PG in both the fog machine and her vapor. My point was it is like comparing water in soda and water inside of the Jack in my flask. There are ingredients in both and all.

I get your comparison, but there are rules and other aspects, which are making your comparison debunked.

Here's what's happening... I am being told I cannot vape in line (other people are drinking alcohol and other people are smoking, probably). So I'm upset about that because it's not harmful to anyone else. The only basis I can see they're making is that it is "offensive" to people.

Ok, so why is it offensive to people... Because they don't know what's in it. They think "it's smoke! It's harmful!" so they are offended by it.

Now, these same idiots that are so offended by my vape... are walking throughout the park where there are fog machines set up blowing HUGE amounts of vapor, like the most I've ever seen come out of a fog machine (probably a lot of VG) and it's spreading throughout the park. You can't even see where you're walking, it's that foggy.

What's in a fog machine? You said PG sometimes, Dry Ice sometimes. Semantics.

( I'm gonna go with PG in this case, because the Dry Ice I've seen has never produced a fog quite like what I saw this past weekend. )
So these people who are "sooo offended" are walking through the same "chemical" my PV produces. So that right there is what I'm referring to. How come my liquid which has PG in it offends so many, when they are walking through the same crap all night?

Alcohol is a different story. You simply cannot bring a flask in with you. The reason why the attendant in your comparison would have told you to stop drinking it is because they sell alcohol there.

Again, they do not sell E-Juice at Universal Studios... So what I'm trying to say is this...

There is no basis on them telling me not to vape my e-juice because 1., they do not sell it there and 2., they are producing the same effects using their own fog machines.

The reason they don't want me vaping in line is because of OTHER PEOPLE being offended by it. It has nothing to do with whether or not they can make more money off me by telling me not to vape, it's because it's offensive to others. And THAT, my friend, is what I am referring to with this entire post.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

^ Sorry to cut in...but I really don't think, in this case, that it's because it's offensive to people (though I'm not saying vaping in general isn't offensive to people, and for silly reasons which, yes, can and should be addressed, and often).

I think it's because, especially through all those clouds of vapor, in the dark, with pushing, shoving and rabid clowns jumping out at you with chainless chainsaws and drunk people screaming and crashing into one another, it's very very hard to tell a cig from a vape...and one actual cig will ignite that entire place in minutes. And if you're smoking in line next to that big structure with the screaming clowns and darkness and drunk people, indeed especially if you are one of those drunk people, which has a certain percentage of likelihood, you might just flick that ciggie wherever and...boom. In light of that, just exactly how much time and policing capability do you imagine these workers have to determine "oh, wait, I think I can see squinting through the clouds that this probably isn't an actual lit device"?

Wandering around in the open, not on line next to the attraction with your nose in another person's back and the person behind you crunching up to your backside as if it will get him to the attraction quicker is obviously much different, and probably way less of a hazard overall, just using common sense.

And beyond you just innocently vaping, any smoker might see a cig-looking thing in someone's mouth with "smoky" looking stuff coming out of it, think, "Oh, okay! It's okay to smoke right here next to the attraction" and light up. As a former smoker, I probably would have. Add alcohol? Oh well then I *absolutely* would have. And not in a very coordinated way, at that. So now you have a whole bunch of overexcited, buzzed people with lit cigs in their hands that the "narcs" have to rush over to police...not good. I sure as hell wouldn't want to have to deal with that as a worker.

So rather than grappling with squinting through the fog and .... all over the place to inspect whether something is a vape or a cig (THEY DO LOOK ALIKE, I am sorry), it's just "no, now move on." Can you blame them? Too much trouble, too hard to see, too hard to enforce person-by-person inching along in a line...next to something that could be very dangerous if it went up. Lawsuit.

I really think that's the issue here...in this case.

In the case of standing in line for the Teacups at high noon, I'd think it would be a different story. But this is this story...and I can really, really see the "narcs'" side to this one.

Not every single request for someone not to vape is an indictment against the stupidity regarding e-cigs.

 

[Robino1]

^ Sorry to cut in...but I really don't think, in this case, that it's because it's offensive to people (though I'm not saying vaping in general isn't offensive to people, and for silly reasons which, yes, can and should be addressed, and often).

I think it's because, especially through all those clouds of vapor, in the dark, with pushing, shoving and rabid clowns jumping out at you with chainless chainsaws and drunk people screaming and crashing into one another, it's very very hard to tell a cig from a vape...and one actual cig will ignite that entire place in minutes. And if you're smoking in line next to that big structure with the screaming clowns and darkness and drunk people, indeed especially if you are one of those drunk people, which has a certain percentage of likelihood, you might just flick that ciggie wherever and...boom.

And beyond you just innocently vaping, any smoker might see a cig-looking thing in someone's mouth with "smoky" looking stuff coming out of it, think, "Oh, okay! It's okay to smoke right here next to the attraction" and light up. As a former smoker, I probably would have. Add alcohol? Oh well then I *absolutely* would have. And not in a very coordinated way, at that.

So rather than grappling with squinting through the fog and .... all over the place to inspect whether something is a vape or a cig (THEY DO LOOK A LIKE, I am sorry), it's just "no, now move on." Can you blame them? Too much trouble, too hard to see, too hard to enforce person-by-person inching along in a line...next to something that could be very dangerous if it went up. Lawsuit.

I really think that's the issue here...in this case.

In the case of standing in line for the Teacups at high noon, I'd think it would be a different story. But this is this story...and I can really, really see the "narks'" side to this one.

I would take your side on this except for one little item, it is their policy even without it being Haunted Halloween. It just really seems to be idiotic that they allow the same 'vapor' on Halloween from their own machines, yet not people vaping. I get what the OP is talking about.

 

[Oaken007]

^ Sorry to cut in...but I really don't think, in this case, that it's because it's offensive to people (though I'm not saying vaping in general isn't offensive to people, and for silly reasons which, yes, can and should be addressed, and often).

I think it's because, especially through all those clouds of vapor, in the dark, with pushing, shoving and rabid clowns jumping out at you with chainless chainsaws and drunk people screaming and crashing into one another, it's very very hard to tell a cig from a vape...and one actual cig will ignite that entire place in minutes. And if you're smoking in line next to that big structure with the screaming clowns and darkness and drunk people, indeed especially if you are one of those drunk people, which has a certain percentage of likelihood, you might just flick that ciggie wherever and...boom. In light of that, just exactly how much time and policing capability do you imagine these workers have to determine "oh, wait, I think I can see squinting through the clouds that this probably isn't an actual lit device"?

Wandering around in the open, not on line next to the attraction with your nose in another person's back and the person behind you crunching up to your backside as if it will get him to the attraction quicker is obviously much different, and probably way less of a hazard overall, just using common sense.

And beyond you just innocently vaping, any smoker might see a cig-looking thing in someone's mouth with "smoky" looking stuff coming out of it, think, "Oh, okay! It's okay to smoke right here next to the attraction" and light up. As a former smoker, I probably would have. Add alcohol? Oh well then I *absolutely* would have. And not in a very coordinated way, at that. So now you have a whole bunch of overexcited, buzzed people with lit cigs in their hands that the "narcs" have to rush over to police...not good. I sure as hell wouldn't want to have to deal with that as a worker.

So rather than grappling with squinting through the fog and .... all over the place to inspect whether something is a vape or a cig (THEY DO LOOK ALIKE, I am sorry), it's just "no, now move on." Can you blame them? Too much trouble, too hard to see, too hard to enforce person-by-person inching along in a line...next to something that could be very dangerous if it went up. Lawsuit.

I really think that's the issue here...in this case.

In the case of standing in line for the Teacups at high noon, I'd think it would be a different story. But this is this story...and I can really, really see the "narcs'" side to this one.

Not every single request for someone not to vape is an indictment against the stupidity regarding e-cigs.

No no... This is not happening throughout the park, only when you are standing in the long lines for the haunted houses. That is the only time you cannot vape. There aren't any fog machines around.

That's why I say it's because of other people being offended.

And when I say there are no fog machines around, it's because the lines aren't really "the event." The worst stuff happens in the lines, people cut in, people smoke, people drink and become obnoxious. The fog machines are either inside the houses or outside in the walking areas.

Another really good reason I wanted to vape in line is because I wanted people to ask me about my e-cig and I even brought an extra tip with me for all those strangers' lips I didn't want on my piece. I wanted them to ask me because I don't want to be around smokers, I don't want to ever smell another cigarette again. I want people to quit smoking. HHN discourages e-cigarettes in line so there goes small-talk about e-cigs while standing in line with nice people.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

I would take your side on this except for one little item, it is their policy even without it being Haunted Halloween. It just really seems to be idiotic that they allow the same 'vapor' on Halloween from their own machines, yet not people vaping. I get what the OP is talking about.

Hmmm, I see a smoking policy but not a vaping policy? I'll look further because I'm curious now. ETA: And it does seem to specifically say "smoking" here...not tobacco/tobacco products, as I've sometimes heard vaping put under the category of...hmmm.

ETA: I can still see this being a gigantic pain in the ... for park workers...a smoker sees someone vaping, thinks it's a cigarette, lights up...so do people behind him or her...park workers have to go over and give out "no, no, nos" repeatedly...all day, with hundreds or thousands of people...

Not saying I like it, just that I can see it.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

No no... This is not happening throughout the park, only when you are standing in the long lines for the haunted houses. That is the only time you cannot vape. There aren't any fog machines around.

That's why I say it's because of other people being offended.

Oh, well what was all that about how there is tons of fog all around as the argument? If there's no fog in the area and there's no vape juice in the area then that would fit...I don't know, I'm a little confused about the talk regarding how there's tons of fog juice (presumably PG or a percentage of PG) right where people are asking to vape...

I am curious about this whole subject now and am looking into it...my curiosity is piqued.

 

[Oaken007]

Oh, well what was all that about how there is tons of fog all around as the argument? If there's no fog in the area and there's no vape juice in the area then that would fit...I don't know, I'm a little confused about the talk regarding how there's tons of fog juice (presumably PG or a percentage of PG) right where people are asking to vape...

I am curious about this whole subject now and am looking into it...my curiosity is piqued.

My point is... They are STILL walking through the fog throughout the rest of the park. It was only to support my claim that the same thing that's in your fog machines throughout the whole park is in my tank. The same thing. The craziness with the fog machines got all out of control because bluecat decided to compare it to alcohol, which obviously as we saw, was an invalid comparison. Has nothing to do with this.

Again, it is because people are offended and ignorant. That is my WHOLE POINT. It obviously has NOTHING to do with the fog machines because they are placed throughout the park.

My point is this: Vaping is not offensive. I also don't believe, like others, that it is harmful. Therefore, based on ignorance and fear, that is why I am unable to vape in line.

The blanket "no" reasoning makes the most sense. They say no to all of them because they are all similar and people will complain.

 

[JonnyB88]

If I may, I'm going to try to explain what I think bluecat was getting at with the alcohol analogy.
Most parks have policies in place that allow alcohol sales/consumption in specific areas only. i.e. Not in lines, bathrooms, etc. They have specific drinking areas. Just like they do smoking areas.
So, this whole explanation to bluecat's statements are based on you being in a park with a rule like that, whether you were or weren't.

You made a statement saying that the fog machines have PG in them, as does your e-cig. Therefore, why shouldn't you be allowed to vape since you're expelling PG just like the machines? Whether your statement was tongue in cheek or not, you made it and bluecat responded to it.

Now, his analogy comes into play. Now remember, in this analogy, you're somewhere where you're not allowed to imbibe alcohol while you wait in line.


If you weren't allowed to drink alcohol in the line, but little Jimmy is drinking a cold pop, then based on your statement about the PG in fog machines (remember, joking or not), then you should be allowed to drink alcohol in line simply because Jimmy's Pepsi has water as an ingredient and so does your whiskey.

Furthermore, you sipping on some Jack is not hurting or inconveniencing anyone around you. So, why shouldn't you be allowed to?

Oh yeah, and it's a hot day, so they have the misters on, cooling people off while they stand in line.
More water! They're literally spraying you with the stuff!

So, yeah, people in line are indulging in things that contain water, they're hosing you down with water, so why SHOULDN'T you be allowed to drink your liquor in line even if it goes against what you were told by the employees there? After all, your alcohol contains water!



Okay, does bluecat's analogy with the alcohol make any sense now? He just used alcohol as an example. So, I'm hoping that you can see how those posts were actually relevant whether or not people actually were drinking alcohol in line.


All that aside, I do agree with you that many of these venues that lump vaping in with smoking are done so due to sheer ignorance. So, I'm agreeing with you on pretty much all your points in this whole thread, but just trying to clarify what was meant by bluecat.

ETA: bluecat, if I'm way off-base here, then, by all means, feel free to correct me.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

^ Okay...all I got out of the above is: Damn, Johnny is cute. (Especially with the whole "pop" thing.)

Unfortunately, given that, all the rest was totally lost on me. Blah blah something something fog machines blah blah theme park something about logic. I'm sure it was good.

Carry on.

 

[bluecat]

If I may, I'm going to try to explain what I think bluecat was getting at with the alcohol analogy.
Most parks have policies in place that allow alcohol sales/consumption in specific areas only. i.e. Not in lines, bathrooms, etc. They have specific drinking areas. Just like they do smoking areas.
So, this whole explanation to bluecat's statements are based on you being in a park with a rule like that, whether you were or weren't.

You made a statement saying that the fog machines have PG in them, as does your e-cig. Therefore, why shouldn't you be allowed to vape since you're expelling PG just like the machines? Whether your statement was tongue in cheek or not, you made it and bluecat responded to it.

Now, his analogy comes into play. Now remember, in this analogy, you're somewhere where you're not allowed to imbibe alcohol while you wait in line.


If you weren't allowed to drink alcohol in the line, but little Jimmy is drinking a cold pop, then based on your statement about the PG in fog machines (remember, joking or not), then you should be allowed to drink alcohol in line simply because Jimmy's Pepsi has water as an ingredient and so does your whiskey.

Furthermore, you sipping on some Jack is not hurting or inconveniencing anyone around you. So, why shouldn't you be allowed to?

Oh yeah, and it's a hot day, so they have the misters on, cooling people off while they stand in line.
More water! They're literally spraying you with the stuff!

So, yeah, people in line are indulging in things that contain water, they're hosing you down with water, so why SHOULDN'T you be allowed to drink your liquor in line even if it goes against what you were told by the employees there? After all, your alcohol contains water!



Okay, does bluecat's analogy with the alcohol make any sense now? He just used alcohol as an example. So, I'm hoping that you can see how those posts were actually relevant whether or not people actually were drinking alcohol in line.


All that aside, I do agree with you that many of these venues that lump vaping in with smoking are done so due to sheer ignorance. So, I'm agreeing with you on pretty much all your points in this whole thread, but just trying to clarify what was meant by bluecat.

ETA: bluecat, if I'm way off-base here, then, by all means, feel free to correct me.

Pretty much spot on. Guess I am not good with words.

 

[JonnyB88]

^ Okay...all I got out of the above is: Damn, Johnny is cute. (Especially with the whole "pop" thing.)

Unfortunately, given that, all the rest was totally lost on me. I'm sure it was good.

Carry on.

Not to delve too much off-topic. But, thank you.
And it's pop. Not soda, like some of the country says, darn it!


And bluecat, glad I could help...I think?

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

Not to delve too much off-topic. But, thank you.
And it's pop. Not soda, like some of the country says, darn it!


And bluecat, glad I could help...I think?

Ha ha, you can pop all you want, Johnny. I remember when my cousins from Michigan used to visit us each year and they'd ask for pop...Oh my dawg did we ever give them blue hell over that...good times.

 

[Robino1]

Not to delve too much off-topic. But, thank you.
And it's pop. Not soda, like some of the country says, darn it!


And bluecat, glad I could help...I think?

Hmm I grew up with pop, moved to where they call it soda. I just quit drinking the stuff so I don't have to worry about being corrected.


Caligirl, you're right, he is cute.

 

[bluecat]

Not to delve too much off-topic. But, thank you.
And it's pop. Not soda, like some of the country says, darn it!


And bluecat, glad I could help...I think?

Aye mate all is good. It was just one man's opinion. I am just glad someone understood.

Pop in Kentucky and Soda in New York... You ask for a pop in NY and they look at you like you have three heads. You ask for a soda in KY and they look at you like you have 4 heads.

 

[DesmondTheMoonbear]

Sent from the MOON, using Tapatalk MOON™

 

[retired1]

Either keep it on topic, or get out of the thread please. The derailments will stop.

 

[CommaHolly]

Not to delve too much off-topic. But, thank you.
And it's pop. Not soda, like some of the country says, darn it!


And bluecat, glad I could help...I think?

it's tonic if you live in massachusetts

unfortunately, as usual, I can see all sides of this one,,,,,,,

but it comes down to their park,,,,,,their rules.

Disney also doesn't allow vaping in lines and can technically throw you out of the park for doing so,,,,,,,

they aren't that mean, though,,,,,,,,,and wouldn't do that unless you just wouldn't stop vaping in lines.