Halt! You are all under arrest for possession of a controlled substance and paraphernalia.

[jim420]

If you think you won't hear that in the U.S. soon, you have not been here very long or are living life with blinders on.
1) The Customs Service will ban import of these product (done).
2) The FDA will make the juice a controlled substance. (pending now)
3) Law enforcement will be busting users and "dealers" and smugglers. (today's vapers and suppliers)

The way to stop this is letting the FDA know what this is really about NOW!, BEFORE step 2 is implemented.

Yesterday, poeticwomyn gave us the contact for the FDA to send E-mails. The response to this has been abyssmal.

PLEASE! Take a few minutes of your time (less than you have spent reading this posting) and tell the FDA your personal story of how these products have saved your life and thousands of others before they make this stuff ILLEGAL.

poeticwomyn's original posting (with her consent) is as follows:
Hi all, my partner has spoken with Jan Cummings of the FDA. even though she (Ms Cummings) does not have to do with the decision making she requested that emails be sent to the following email address and she will then forward them to the FDA dicision makers. Now that we know we have a sympathizer within the FDA, we need to make sure to send all the emails she could ever want or need. Ms. Cummings needs as many emails as soon as possible. She would like for the subject line to say "Electronic Cigarette" then a well thought out email stating our side of why e-cigs should not be banned. Thank you for taking the time to consider sending the email, Kat
Please send emails to reglist@cdrh.fda.gov and remember the subject line needs to say only "electronic cigarettes"

 

[Elendil]

Step 1 is not done.......

 

[MissVapor]

K...just sent them an email....thanks...

 

[heatzill]

I've already sent one.

 

[Dilutetrips]

As far as I know the FDA can not make e-liquid a controlled substance. If they do all forms of nic would be a controlled substance. They can ban the sale of e-liquid, but that is it. I doubt that anyone will be sent to jail for having e-liquid or a e-cig or PV. I can not see someone doing time for having e-liquid.

 

[jim420]

Step 1 is not done.......

Please tell that to anyone who has had a shipment intercepted by customs.
Also, please direct your overseas suppliers to mark the customs declaration "Electronic cigarettes" or "Hazardous liquid (contains nicotine)"

Just because they have not done a full-court press yet, does not mean they aren't doing it at all.

 

[NY JETS]

If you think you won't hear that in the U.S. soon, you have not been here very long or are living life with blinders on.
1) The Customs Service will ban import of these product (done).
2) The FDA will make the juice a controlled substance. (pending now)
3) Law enforcement will be busting users and "dealers" and smugglers. (today's vapers and suppliers)

1-"temporary" ban being fought in court. let's let due process occur before
we call it (done).
2-this has been gone over a million times if you do a search, e-liquid will
never be a controlled substance.
3-

Your intentions seem to be pretty good, but everyone here has already gotten the message that action needs to be taken. Creating more threads with titles like this are just uncalled for, and will wind up scaring away potential e-cig users. Why not just say, "The FDA wants to hear us" or something along those lines?

 

[jim420]

1-"temporary" ban being fought in court. let's let due process occur before
we call it (done).
2-this has been gone over a million times if you do a search, e-liquid will
never be a controlled substance.
3-

Your intentions seem to be pretty good, but everyone here has already gotten the message that action needs to be taken. Creating more threads with titles like this are just uncalled for, and will wind up scaring away potential e-cig users. Why not just say, "The FDA wants to hear us" or something along those lines?

Because the original thread quoted here resulted in just a few e-mails being sent.
So a "temporary ban" isn't a ban, huh?
--People never thought prohibition would pass either. Look how that worked out.

 

[Elendil]

Please tell that to anyone who has had a shipment intercepted by customs.

Please find me a live, credible person whose individual order has been seized and have them posit it on this board.

To propagate the incorrect info that a ban is in effect is irresponsible.

 

[Space Cowboy]

As far as I know the FDA can not make e-liquid a controlled substance. If they do all forms of nic would be a controlled substance. They can ban the sale of e-liquid, but that is it. I doubt that anyone will be sent to jail for having e-liquid or a e-cig or PV. I can not see someone doing time for having e-liquid.

IMO, you're both right and wrong. Only the DEA can add a substance to the schedules of controlled substances without legislative intervention, but it can be done under advice of the FDA. So all the FDA can do is request controlled substance status and then the DEA has to act one way or the other.

But the DEA could make eliquid a controlled substance without outlawing other nicotine products. Once you mix the nicotine base with a second or third substance, that mixture becomes a new drug. In this case an illegal drug according to the FDA. That new drug can be regulated or criminalized without regard to its components. It's just like what was done with Ephedrine. Ephedrine is legal when sold as a treatment for asthma, colds, or allergies, but is a controlled substance when mixed with other ingredients to make methamphedimins. So yes one substance containing nicotine could be legal while another substance containing nicotine could be a controlled substance.

 

[NY JETS]

---People never thought prohibition would pass either. Look how that worked out.

Ok that was 90 years ago. As for how did it work out? Let me crack open a Becks and turn on the Yankees Pre-game Show, which is sponsored by Grey Goose Vodka

Let's let something officially happen before we start to panic and yell at people for not sending enough emails.

 

[ApOsTle51]

forgive me if im incorrect but Eliquid can be constituted as a ' new drug' .

Granted Nicotine itself will not be banned , but throw in the mix some flavourings and some PG or VG one or two more GRAS substances and it's no longer 'nicotine' it's a whole new substance.

This falls under a 'new-drug' label which can be controlled by the FDA.

My understanding anyway

ApO.

 

[jim420]

IMO, you're both right and wrong. Only the DEA can add a substance to the schedules of controlled substances without legislative intervention, but it can be done under advice of the FDA. So all the FDA can do is request controlled substance status and then the DEA has to act one way or the other.

But the DEA could make eliquid a controlled substance without outlawing other nicotine products. Once you mix the nicotine base with a second or third substance, that mixture becomes a new drug. In this case an illegal drug according to the FDA. That new drug can be regulated or criminalized without regard to its components. It's just like what was done with Ephedrine. Ephedrine is legal when sold as a treatment for asthma, colds, or allergies, but is a controlled substance when mixed with other ingredients to make methamphedimins. So yes one substance containing nicotine could be legal while another substance containing nicotine could be a controlled substance.

If marketed or percieved as a means of quitting smoking, it could easily be made a prescription medicine/device by the FDA. Please note that the gum, patch and lozenges came out by prescription only, and thus a "controlled substance" (albeit it would not be put on the schedule as a class 'A' or anything) and this would allow your local police to check your prescription and bust you if you didn't have one.

Can any of you see that we are going to be swept up with the anti-smoking McCarthyism that is occurring in this country if we do not shed some reason and light on the subject.

The stroke of a pen can MAKE nicotine a controlled substance. The fact that it is not now controlled does in no way mean that it will not be. There was recently a case or a college frat hazing resulting in a pledge OD'ing on nicotine patches. These news stories open the door to getting the FDA and government in general to outlaw or control tobacco, nicotine and "paraphernalia" and they have the full support of doing so by the very vocal anti-smoking groups. You can't blame them for taking drastic action if they only hear from the one side (essentially).
THAT is why I am so strongly advocating sending an e-mail. The title of this thread may be a bit of a shock, but it got your attention, didn't it? Softer worded threads have been essentially ignored.
Thank you for your interest and input.

Jim

 

[jim420]

Ok that was 90 years ago. As for how did it work out? Let me crack open a Becks and turn on the Yankees Pre-game Show, which is sponsored by Grey Goose Vodka

Let's let something officially happen before we start to panic and yell at people for not sending enough emails.

I'm sorry. You are right. It is much easier to do away with laws than to inform the lawmakers/regulators of our views. They certainly don't have any input from The Legacy Foundation and other anti-smoking groups.
My apologies for being so ignorant.

 

[jim420]

forgive me if im incorrect but Eliquid can be constituted as a ' new drug' .

Granted Nicotine itself will not be banned , but throw in the mix some flavourings and some PG or VG one or two more GRAS substances and it's no longer 'nicotine' it's a whole new substance.

This falls under a 'new-drug' label which can be controlled by the FDA.

My understanding anyway

ApO.

Too bad that you are in the UK...We can use the voice of reason here.
Thanks.

 

[Flowerpeddle]

I am not trying to be rude by any means but... How do you know only a few emails were being sent as you posted?

Just because someone doesn't report in or post that they sent a email , wrote a letter or made a phone call...doesn't mean they didn't do it. I didn't know that we were to "report" in . Some people just do things without the need to be recognised.

Because the original thread quoted here resulted in just a few e-mails being sent.
So a "temporary ban" isn't a ban, huh?
---People never thought prohibition would pass either. Look how that worked out.

 

[jim420]

I am not trying to be rude by any means but... How do you know only a few emails were being sent as you posted?

Just because someone doesn't report in or post that they sent a email , wrote a letter or made a phone call...doesn't mean they didn't do it. I didn't know that we were to "report" in . Some people just do things without the need to be recognised.

True...You have a point there, but if even 10% reported back it is still not enough to make the point to them adequately.

 

[Doc]

Ephedrine is legal when sold as a treatment for asthma, colds, or allergies, but is a controlled substance when mixed with other ingredients to make methamphedimins. So yes one substance containing nicotine could be legal while another substance containing nicotine could be a controlled substance.

Ephedrine (pseudephedrine) is a precursor molecule when making methamphetamine. It is not mixed with other ingredients. Ingredients and process are used to MAKE a different molecule. Nicotine stays nicotine in e liquid. It may not be a fair comparison to make.

 

[Space Cowboy]

Please note that the gum, patch and lozenges came out by prescription only, and thus a "controlled substance" (albeit it would not be put on the schedule as a class 'A' or anything) and this would allow your local police to check your prescription and bust you if you didn't have one.

A prescription drug is not the same thing as a controlled substance. You need a prescription to get antibiotics, but they aren't controlled substances. ...... is a prescription drug but not a controlled substance. Most non Schedule I controlled substances are available with a prescription and possession without a valid prescription is illegal, but not all prescription drugs are controlled substances.

 

[jim420]

My thanks to all the people who have pointed out that I should not have posted this for this reason or that. Every time you respond, it bumps it right back up to the top of the "Today's Posts" list.