Hana Modz awarded $300k in copyright battle

[porkchopbun]

What are you talking about? These days you can get a great set up with mod and atty for less than $100.

Yup, it's been good year so far good devices ...it's cause people choose/want to purchase a Greek, Pinoy, etc mods for $200 plus, there are so many tons of options now for good equipment that will work well that won't break the bank.

Mutation X, doge , Freakshow, Artic Subtank, other subtank glassmoizers, Odin, El Carbron, there is too many good tanks compared to just 2 years ago.
Man, it's mind boggling that people are sub ohming on glassmoizers now.

 

[tFOrRESTee]

What are you talking about? These days you can get a great set up with mod and atty for less than $100.

I am talking about if only buying authentics, made in good ole USA gears. If you buy a mod and atty less than $100, they are all from China.

eGos and clearos are quite inexpensive. Once mastered, they can get an authentic eGo-1 for $50...

I will drop dead and go back to smoke if I have to use those junks.

 

[stevegmu]

I am talking about if only buying authentics, made in good ole USA gears. If you buy a mod and atty less than $100, they are all from China.



I will drop dead and go back to smoke if I have to use those junks.

No one said the US is the only country making non counterfeited vape gear.

Some people have the will and desire to quit smoking; some don't...

 

[Dzaw]

What bothers me about this case (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is the target.

As near as I can tell, Ill Vapes isn't a manufacturer - they're a B&M with a website on the side. They're selling imported clones.

So the precedent this sets isn't that manufacture of these counterfeits (a 1:1 clone complete with logos is a bootleg, a counterfeit) should be stopped. Rather, just squash the little shop that's selling them. Why? Money.

It would take more bank than Hana Modz could muster to take on the Chinese industrial counterfeiting machine in international trade courts, and even if they were to win such a battle, it would cost them more in time, effort, and legal expenses than they could ever hope to recover.

On the other hand, they've probably a noticeable advantage in that same respect over one little shop. The little shop makes an easy, convenient target, based in the US, and thus subject to US trade laws.

Ill Vapes didn't make the counterfeit.

In 2015 it does nothing to protect fair trading and competition practices to squash a brick and mortar shop for selling something anyone can order from a Chinese retailer. FT, FC, and so many others will benefit from a larger market share, and a lot of small American entrpeneurs trying to share their love of vaping will be crushed underfoot.

 

[Vermonster13]

It deters other shops from carrying the counterfeits and that is the point of the suit. China would never pay the settlement anyways if they had been the defendant, but now you most likely see a lot fewer one to one counterfeits.

 

[roxynoodle]

BCV just put out a $50 mech. USA modder and all . Might have to get one. Yep, top it with a Doge, Mutation X, Lemo, Goblin, Silverplay, etc and for under $100 its an authentic set up. All those attys might be made in China, but they are all decent quality.

 

[stevegmu]

What bothers me about this case (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is the target.

As near as I can tell, Ill Vapes isn't a manufacturer - they're a B&M with a website on the side. They're selling imported clones.

So the precedent this sets isn't that manufacture of these counterfeits (a 1:1 clone complete with logos is a bootleg, a counterfeit) should be stopped. Rather, just squash the little shop that's selling them. Why? Money.

It would take more bank than Hana Modz could muster to take on the Chinese industrial counterfeiting machine in international trade courts, and even if they were to win such a battle, it would cost them more in time, effort, and legal expenses than they could ever hope to recover.

On the other hand, they've probably a noticeable advantage in that same respect over one little shop. The little shop makes an easy, convenient target, based in the US, and thus subject to US trade laws.

Ill Vapes didn't make the counterfeit.

In 2015 it does nothing to protect fair trading and competition practices to squash a brick and mortar shop for selling something anyone can order from a Chinese retailer. FT, FC, and so many others will benefit from a larger market share, and a lot of small American entrpeneurs trying to share their love of vaping will be crushed underfoot.

The B&Ms shouldn't be selling counterfeit items. Period. They are the only target, as they are in the US. Others may now think twice before carrying 'clones' or counterfeits and will order generic mods and attys from Fastech or Alibaba to stock their shelves and re-sell. It is a win win...

 

[JMarca]

Sad thing is Hana won't see a dime from this lawsuit. IllVapes doesn't even exist anymore:

http://illvapes.com/
(Hint: Link is not broken but shows the store was taken offline)

All they would have to do is file for bankruptcy as a company which I wouldn't see why they wouldn't it's not like they even care about the store anymore. All those legal fees just to make a point, but was it really worth it?

 

[Vermonster13]

Depends on how many customers they lost sales to because said customers bought counterfeits from B&Ms thinking they were authentic Hanas. As many vapers as we have online there are still a huge number of uninformed ones out there who make easy targets.

 

[Alien Traveler]

What bothers me about this case (and please correct me if I'm wrong) is the target.

As near as I can tell, Ill Vapes isn't a manufacturer - they're a B&M with a website on the side. They're selling imported clones.

So the precedent this sets isn't that manufacture of these counterfeits (a 1:1 clone complete with logos is a bootleg, a counterfeit) should be stopped. Rather, just squash the little shop that's selling them. Why? Money.

It would take more bank than Hana Modz could muster to take on the Chinese industrial counterfeiting machine in international trade courts, and even if they were to win such a battle, it would cost them more in time, effort, and legal expenses than they could ever hope to recover.

On the other hand, they've probably a noticeable advantage in that same respect over one little shop. The little shop makes an easy, convenient target, based in the US, and thus subject to US trade laws.

Ill Vapes didn't make the counterfeit.

In 2015 it does nothing to protect fair trading and competition practices to squash a brick and mortar shop for selling something anyone can order from a Chinese retailer. FT, FC, and so many others will benefit from a larger market share, and a lot of small American entrpeneurs trying to share their love of vaping will be crushed underfoot.

You are right and you are wrong.
US B@M store probably had sold mods as authentic ones. It paid for it.
Fasttech sells these mods as clones and will gain market share as a bit more honest seller.
However, I'd like not to see counterfeit logos on all FT clones.

 

[Dzaw]

You are right and you are wrong.
US B@M store probably had sold mods as authentic ones. It paid for it.
Fasttech sells these mods as clones and will gain market share as a bit more honest seller.
However, I'd like not to see counterfeit logos on all FT clones.

I can't speak to whether or not Illvapes was trying to fool anyone, but a quick google search shows at least one youtube that was up as "Hana Modz clone preview" associated with Illvapes.

The shop may well have been trying to pass them off as authentic at their actual retail location, I just don't know, being on the east coast.

I'd like to see the same. That's why I grind the logos off of my clones. My brass nemmy clone and brass tobh clone are both logo free. However, the "generic" non 1:1 clones are just too hit or miss in the Q/A department.

Also, unless I'm very much mistaken, Hana will now have to fight very hard to protect that special trade mark. The problem with IP laws is that you cannot simply decide to overlook even a small infraction. They're going to have to similarly go after any/every seller of counterfeit Hana products that they become aware of, or surrender their right to go after any of them at all.

Again, the little shop suffers. The actual criminal laughs all the way to the bank.

Pointless and destructive lawsuit. Not a win/win, its a lose/lose.

 

[Vermonster13]

Yeah everyone should just roll over and take it. Pretty much becoming the American way.

 

[Dzaw]

I'm not suggesting anyone should "roll over and take it", I'm just pointing out that pucking it into the wrong target isn't productive either.

As already pointed out, Hana Modz isn't going to see so much as a red cent from this suit. Illvapes can get bankruptcy protection, and boom, gone, byebye.

In the meantime, that means Hana Modz accomplished what? They managed to spend some cash on a lawyer. That probably wasn't cheap. And they forced an LLC into bankruptcy. Big deal.

No, I don't see this one case having any major chilling effect on other shops, stopping anyone from carrying clones. At the most, they'll stop selling Hana clones for a few months, but carry other clones.

Of course, there's also foreign web sellers who will be happy to take American greenbacks for counterfeits,

So again, pointless and destructive.

 

[stevegmu]

Once enough shady B&Ms get put out of business the others will get a hint...

 

[wheelie]

Won't be any money. Other side never even showed up. Likely incorporated and just close the company and no where to ever collect the money.

 

[juggler86]

The Chinese dont care and wont stop. They might change to a slightly different font, if they do anything at all.

 

[Dzaw]

Once enough shady B&Ms get put out of business the others will get a hint...

nope.

not. going. to. happen.

Hana will quickly find it simply too expensive to pursue each and every B&M out there for no payout. As has been adequately pointed out, for several reasons, they're out their own legal fees, and won't even be able to recover those.

They may have pockets deeper than one store, but there's a whole lotta shops out there.

This is much like a death penalty argument. Sooner or later, someone always brings up the deterrent effect in that debate. Not going into whether or not I'm for or against, I will say that I find the deterrent argument similarly unconvincing and ineffectual In that debate.

 

[stevegmu]

nope.

not. going. to. happen.

Hana will quickly find it simply too expensive to pursue each and every B&M out there for no payout. As has been adequately pointed out, for several reasons, they're out their own legal fees, and won't even be able to recover those.

They may have pockets deeper than one store, but there's a whole lotta shops out there.

This is much like a death penalty argument. Sooner or later, someone always brings up the deterrent effect in that debate. Not going into whether or not I'm for or against, I will say that I find the deterrent argument similarly unconvincing and ineffectual In that debate.

The shops who hear about the lawsuit and judgement will stop selling them on their own, unless they aren't concerned about going bankrupt. The shops who sell them and any other counterfeit have absolutely no defense...

Once Svoemesto takes out a re-seller, then things will get interesting...

 

[Dzaw]

The shops who hear about the lawsuit and judgement will stop selling them on their own, unless they aren't concerned about going bankrupt. The shops who sell them and any other counterfeit have absolutely no defense...

Once Svoemesto takes out a re-seller, then things will get interesting...

I've spoken (this afternoon) with a b&m owner who has dozens of various clones all over their glass displays. Their response? We don't have a web store, so it don't bother me.

Lots (most) b&ms have either no or such a minimal actual web presence that even finding out which shops to target is a mind boggling task.

Don't you mean -if- SM bothers to spend thousands on lawyers for no return just to step on a little American store? Last I checked, SM isn't an American based company, so they can either fight it out in a foreign (US, foreign to them) jurisdiction, or squash a shop on the continent, to similarly ineffectual end result.

Don't hold your breath. The great earthquake of shops suddenly divesting their shelves of clones just isn't coming.

 

[stevegmu]

I've spoken (this afternoon) with a b&m owner who has dozens of various clones all over their glass displays. Their response? We don't have a web store, so it don't bother me.

Lots (most) b&ms have either no or such a minimal actual web presence that even finding out which shops to target is a mind boggling task.

Don't you mean -if- SM bothers to spend thousands on lawyers for no return just to step on a little American store? Last I checked, SM isn't an American based company, so they can either fight it out in a foreign (US, foreign to them) jurisdiction, or squash a shop on the continent, to similarly ineffectual end result.

Don't hold your breath. The great earthquake of shops suddenly divesting their shelves of clones just isn't coming.

Sounds like a pretty shady B&M.

All Svoemesto has to do is take out a big online retailer... I don't care that they are a Russian company. The illegal sales are taking place in the United States. Who knows, maybe the government will go after the dealers of counterfeited products...