Hana Modz awarded $300k in copyright battle
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I made no comments about the right or wrong of it, nor did I spin or justify anything.
Who is the thief, the maker, or the buyer, or perhaps both.
Again, I made no comments about the right or wrong of it.
I said earlier I think that every individual will decide if price is reasonable to them or not, ....
I principal I do not disagree with what you say... however your response did not addressed anything I posted.
The funny thing is, they keep going on about the price and say the logo isn't important, but in the case of box mods, there are plenty of cheap China box mods without the Hana logo, yet they need to have that Hana logo on it to get a good vape...
In this particular case it's pretty clear at least to this particular judge. The thief was the seller.
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The custom engraving is totally an individual option, not representative of the base retail cost. It should be more expensive.
EDIT: Call around, and price-out some machine work here in the States.. Figure in paying staff, rent, utilities, insurance, cost of boards / switches, anodizing, folks to solder the boards in, assembly, etc..
Sure, the Chinese can produce inferior copies cheaper. Do I want one? Nope.. I wouldn't care if they were $10.00. For others, they are great.As long as folks are not smoking, and are happy with their purchases, enjoy, and vape-on!
1:1 counterfeits are a different ball-game though IMO.. They serve no purpose other than to be potentially deceptive to folks who may not know better, and actually think that they're purchasing an authentic from unscrupulous vendors / sellers.. Why someone would want one with logos / SN's, knowing it's a counterfeit, is beyond me..
EDIT: I'm not biased against Chinese devices either... My go-to ATM is the YiHi SXmini. Fantastic device.. Great quality in both build, and electronics.. The price? $189.99. One seems to get what one pays for.. Even with Chinese devices.
Apologies to the OP for straying a little OT..
On-Topic: Hana Modz protected their rights, and sent out a message.. Good for them!
And that has what to do with what I said?
My message is really simple.
IMO the best way for any manufacturer to combat counterfeiting and cloning is to provide high value products.
You may or may not agree with that point.
My secondary point is this case will have little to no affect on the cloners.
You may or may not agree with that point.
Other then that rant on.
P.S. I spent a large part of my career as a manufacturer so I believe have a better then average knowledge all costs involved.
Cheers
I agree with you too. In the end, The buyer decides if he is willing to pay a price or not. I was more using your point to drive home my point that price is irrelevant in it being wrong or not. Like i said above, just because one doesn't agree with the price of something doesn't give you free reign to knock it off.
To address your other point...every one involved with clones at all levels is guilty of theft. Resellers and makers more so than buyers but everyone to an extent.
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And that has what to do with what I said?
My message is really simple.
IMO the best way for any manufacturer to combat counterfeiting and cloning is to provide high value products.
You may or may not agree with that point.
My secondary point is this case will have little to no affect on the cloners.
You may or may not agree with that point.
Other then that rant on.
P.S. I spent a large part of my career as a manufacturer so I believe have a better then average knowledge all costs involved.
Cheers
Yea it won't have any effects on the cloners, who cares? US vendors will think twice before listing and carrying 1:1 Hana clones online at least. That was the purpose of the lawsuit.
Ok cool thanks brekec88. I was feeling misunderstood and picked on
No not at all, same as you stated I agree with most everything you are saying and I would rather have some opposing views than everyone thinking 100% like me.
My V4D is $209 and I find it to be an exceptional value. The reason a lot of people may not is because the market consists primarily of Chinese goods. You don't have any idea just how good an authentic American Made mod is until you have actually held one. Since most B&M's deal primarily in Chinese products, most people don't have any idea.
I used to be very guilty of slamming American mod makers selling their products for what I thought was an outrageous price. But that's because like most people, I never had access to the real thing until I discovered a shop that actually carries genuine HANA products.
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So they drop the H and job done no interference with things at all whilst this might set a precedent it's a worthless one it won't alter things one bit because anyone that bought a clone and thought it was authentic is the sort of person that leads to warnings on wheelbarrows not to use the wheels on their car. Cloning won't even notice this and certainly isn't going to be slowed by it we can debate the finer points of law and it's interpretation all day long and at the end of it the fact is one shop got shut down twenty plus probably opened on the same day and will be stacking shelves with clones of all types of stuff. Personally I don't own any clone stuff I completely own cheap Chinese products (eleaf, sigelei and kanger) and am getting a better vape out of them then I had in the past with expensive authentic crap, just being authentic doesn't mean good experience or even good quality that's the problem. When a cloner in china can perfect your device and make it affordable it's time to smell the coffee and lower your prices as some clones have been better then the authentic they copied.
So many authentics massively overcharge that they create the clone market and sometimes make their products in such small amounts that they could never produce the number of product to satisfy demand anyway so what are users to do. Personally I'm glad I'm skint now as I will never again waste money chasing something I can get for a quarter of the price and have less issues with as I said I don't have clones of anything but if I needed the experience that some authentic gave but could get it possibly better and a quarter of the price am I an idiot for paying more for less or an idiot for buying the better experience clone that's the biggest reason the clone exists and will continue.
So many authentics massively overcharge that they create the clone market and sometimes make their products in such small amounts that they could never produce the number of product to satisfy demand anyway so what are users to do. Personally I'm glad I'm skint now as I will never again waste money chasing something I can get for a quarter of the price and have less issues with as I said I don't have clones of anything but if I needed the experience that some authentic gave but could get it possibly better and a quarter of the price am I an idiot for paying more for less or an idiot for buying the better experience clone that's the biggest reason the clone exists and will continue.
It doesn't set any precedent.
It's a simple unauthorized trademark use case.
There are hundreds of thousands on record.
It's a simple unauthorized trademark use case.
There are hundreds of thousands on record.
You must not know what that word means. It didn't set any legal trademark precedent, no. Unfortunately people have been ripping off other people designs and trademarks for a long time. That is not the only type of precedent that can be set. A precedent is an earlier event that is regarded as an example to be considered in subsequent similar circumstances. If you carry 1:1 clone vape gear in the US, you can get sued and will lose. This was the first time that this has happened with vape gear. It is a precedent in EVERY sense of the word.
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As far as clones being better quality than the authentic...I'm sure its happened before. Just because a device is an authentic doesn't intrinsically make it good. I've probably had 15+ different mods in the last year alone. My brother in law usually buys a clone of whatever I use so I've seen both sides first hand with almost every atty and mod I have ever owned. Some are better copies than others but I've never used one that was even as good as let alone better.
Funny how ever since the Hana lawsuit was announced China has started making more original devices like SX chips, Yihi mini, Lemo, nautilus, Sub tank ect ect (and this is a good thing for everyone). But no, the lawsuit hasn't changed anything (sarcasm).
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I considered a vaporshark although I did find the HANA to feel a bit more premium with the milled aluminum vs zinc/aluminium alloy in the rDNA. But I think the thing that made me go with my HANA more then anything was the dual battery. Both are good mods though none the less and I could just as easily say the Vapor Flask is better then my HANA.
It's unfortunate to me that most won't be using these mods because regardless of the value we might find in them, the general public is going to consider price over value. Especially when iPV, Sigelei, SMY, etc are in a power war. So now you see a huge amount of people thinking a $100 Sigelei is a better value just because it pushes 150 watts that they don't need anyway. And then you have the DNA clones for $40 to $50, confusing people who could have bought an authentic. I sure know that when I was a new vapor, I almost bought one of those until the good people on these boards told me otherwise.
And now China is entering the world of Temperature Control with the iPV 4. This device is 100 watts however it won't go any higher then 580 degrees Fahrenheit which is less then a DNA 40. So basically they aren't going to be getting this superior 100 watt temperature controlled vape that they are assuming they will. But because of the way that they market their products, that's what will be perceived as quality and value.
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It's nice to see that some Chinese companies are starting to innovate and create their own products. It may come to a point where the power war will turn in to a price war. It could lead to more accessible devices price wise. Can you imagine if all these cloners start innovating and authentic makers step up their innovating? We may see products that go beyond our imagination.
Yes China only started making all these new products because of the hana case now I have heard it all look I really don't care truth be told as I have my budget I've got very good gear that fitted my budget so I'm sorted. China is starting to gear up fully in many areas and just as we Brits had to at the end of our empire so Americans will have to accept your yesterdays news you can't compete with china anymore then Britain could compete with the USA they are moving faster then either of us probably faster then both of us put together and in the not so far future they will be dictating things. They came up with the products they have because they already understand how vaping is developing and are ahead of the curve sure as hell further along then we are but if you want to believe this case was the catalyst for the new good products that have come out fair enough each to their own.
I mean eleaf and kanger were well known clone makers...oh wait no they weren't so the odds of them even knowing about this case much less organising their product development and release around it are laughable.
I mean eleaf and kanger were well known clone makers...oh wait no they weren't so the odds of them even knowing about this case much less organising their product development and release around it are laughable.
More power doesn't mean more technology or 'advanced' products. It just appeals to a small segment of vapers driven by what they see on vaping forums and Youtube...
It is nice to see although the Chinese makers are always going to beat America in price due to the materials used and difference in labor costs. Then you have to consider all the money the Chinese government funds to manufacturing.
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