Has the burnt taste issue officially been kicked?

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leaford

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I'm not sure, but I think most but not all of it has been now that the resistance range has been narrowed to between 2.4-2.6ohms for ALL cartos, blanks and prefilled. In my testing we had to go below 2.4ohms to consistently get a burnt taste on 5v with 100%VG. About 10% of our first batch were below that range, and the reports of the burnt taste definitly were less than 10% of our sales.

CONSISTENTLY being the key word. We could only get it consistently with the worst case scenario for all variables. But we still get an occasional inconsistent bad taste even below those values. [EDIT- another maddening aspect is that in those cases, usually one of us tastes it and the other doesn't, so we have to get a third opinion to break the "tie"]

So, I am now concentrating on Cryx's suggestions regarding making sure the coil placement is more consistent, to keep it away from the silicon ring and adhesive, and see if that solves the remaining INconsistent aspect of the problem.
 
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starsong

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If that 5th pack is full of 555, I'd be willing to take the bullet for you.

Just curious. 2 of the 5 packs I ordered a month or two ago gave a really bad taste. I eneded up not willing to try the 5th pack. Has this issue been officially solved?

When the cartos worked the way they were meant to, they were great.
 

caged

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Thanks. Do you still think VG had something to do with it as well? PG really irritates my throat so I'm trying to stay away from it. I did find some VG that's supposed to have the same consistency of PG (not sure what they thinned it with) so I was thinking about giving it a try.

Again, the cartos that worked were amazing. Almost got off analogs with them.
 

leaford

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Thanks. Do you still think VG had something to do with it as well? PG really irritates my throat so I'm trying to stay away from it. I did find some VG that's supposed to have the same consistency of PG (not sure what they thinned it with) so I was thinking about giving it a try.

Again, the cartos that worked were amazing. Almost got off analogs with them.

VG does seem to be one of the variables at play, yes, but it's still not clear whether that's due to the greater "sugar" content, or the greater thickness. But, since controlling the resistance range on the blanks, we've had fewer reports of problems with VG, and more reports of people using 50% blends (like BWB) sucessfully.
 

Frick

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I'm not sure, but I think most but not all of it has been now that the resistance range has been narrowed to between 2.4-2.6ohms for ALL cartos, blanks and prefilled. In my testing we had to go below 2.4ohms to consistently get a burnt taste on 5v with 100%VG. About 10% of our first batch were below that range, and the reports of the burnt taste definitly were less than 10% of our sales.

CONSISTENTLY being the key word. We could only get it consistently with the worst case scenario for all variables. But we still get an occasional inconsistent bad taste even below those values. [EDIT- another maddening aspect is that in those cases, usually one of us tastes it and the other doesn't, so we have to get a third opinion to break the "tie"]

So, I am now concentrating on Cryx's suggestions regarding making sure the coil placement is more consistent, to keep it away from the silicon ring and adhesive, and see if that solves the remaining INconsistent aspect of the problem.

Although I didn't necessarily agree or disagree with him, Cryx had come to the conclusion that the adhesive wasn't necessary. Is there the possibility of a re-design without the adhesive, or to keep the coil further from the silicone 'gasket'?
 

ditc

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VG does seem to be one of the variables at play, yes, but it's still not clear whether that's due to the greater "sugar" content, or the greater thickness. But, since controlling the resistance range on the blanks, we've had fewer reports of problems with VG, and more reports of people using 50% blends (like BWB) sucessfully.

If it is the VG that's one of the variables causing a burning "taste", does that mean the VG would actually be causing something to burn, or melt? Or just giving off a different taste, but not causing us to inhale something that's a carcinogen?
 

leaford

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If it is the VG that's one of the variables causing a burning "taste", does that mean the VG would actually be causing something to burn, or melt? Or just giving off a different taste, but not causing us to inhale something that's a carcinogen?

Well, my working theory has been that the combination of high voltage and low resistance makes the coil too hot too fast, causing some of the glycerine to carmalize instead of vaporizing, like burnt sugar. So, yes, giving off a bad taste, but not anything toxic or carcinogenic.

It's also a possibility that some of the silicon adhesive which holds the fiberglass airtube in place is melting due to inconsistent coil placement, resulting in some coils being too close to it. I'm considering that a serious possibility, but I'm still not 100% convinced since I haven't seen any visibly scorched or melted adhesive in the ones we reproduced the burnt taste in. And even if that is the case, I've gotten the SGS reports on the adhesive and silicon ring materials and absolutely no toxins were detected in them. So again, we're dealing with a bad taste, not a hazard.

OTOH, Cryx suggests that formaldehyde is produced from hot silicon. Except for a dry burn, the cartos should not get that hot, and even if they do, the amount produced would almost certainly be far, FAR below any hazardous level. Less than what your body produces through normal metabolism. But it may be another factor in the taste, I can't rule that out. Yet.
 

leaford

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Although I didn't necessarily agree or disagree with him, Cryx had come to the conclusion that the adhesive wasn't necessary. Is there the possibility of a re-design without the adhesive, or to keep the coil further from the silicone 'gasket'?

I'm looking into it. But no, it's not as simple as leaving out the adhesive, they would either have to redesign the whole thing, or at a minimum change their entire production process. Basically, after gluing the airtube in place, but before wrapping the filler around it and adding the tube, there are other steps which they can't do without the tube being firmly fixed in place. Important steps like QC tests, which I really do not want to skip.
 
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