Has vaping lost way?

[Janusz]

Of all that can be done to help someone quit smoking, I would rank easing the frustration of vaping number one. Frustration with an unsatisfying vape has to be the number one reason people return to smoking.

Last week I was approached by coworker with question what vaping device he should buy because he wants to quit smoking... at my lunch box I had three mods and couple tanks...I placed Baby Beast tank on my Smok stick V8 , Nautilus2 on my Zelos and Siren2 on my Aegis and ask the guy to take some puffs from all three and tell me which he like the best...

After couple of puffs on each device he pointed to Zelos and said I want this one, where can I buy one. I said wait... I have to explain you difference between those three mods... this tank you like (Nautilus2) can be used on different mods and Zelos has built in battery that after a year or two will be useless... After my explanation of pros and cons of Aegis and Zelos he said he prefer Zelos...bigger price of Aegis (plus expense of battery cells and external charger) was not big issue for him but he liked smaller size and weight and said he likes the fact he can charge it everywhere... at home...at workplace and in the car... for the price not much bigger than couple battery cells and external charger he can buy another Zelos kit( that include Nautilus2 tank) to use as a back up when other is charging...

He ordered it couple minutes later and was so impatient he gave up free shipping and paid extra for second day delivery... today he proudly announced to me he is third day off cigarettes and his wife also love his set up and he has to order the same thing for her... If he would go to local vape shop he would end up most likely with some single button Smok mod with "hot cloud producer" on top...

 

[Frenchfry1942]

I don't think John Q. Public equates big clouds with smoking (combustible tobacco) cessation.

Vaping will grow with people that want to quit cigs. I really don't lend support for any others, maybe down the road as acceptance increases.

 

[Letitia]

The public associates all clouds, big and small, with vaping. Much of the non smoking and non vaping public don't care why we vape, they just don't want us to do either.

 

[Myk]

Vaping wasn't banned in most public business until 2017. We did escalate the time line imo. Once gear was classified as a tobacco product the writing was on the wall but localities or individual business owners could choose where vaping was allowed. When we kept it discreet we were pretty much tolerated. Even if you were discreet some owners chose to ask you not to vape indoors and many vaper's in our area got very loud and rude about it. This was happening all over the US. It wasn't just the cloud chasers that stirred the pot as some claim. Some just chose the wrong platform to protest against. Even when smoking was allowed a business owner had the right to forbid smoking in their establishment. There is no valid reason to stomp on their rights either.

I'd say we delayed it until 2017 and are still delaying it because we continue to fight. When my town banned it they did so by sneaking it through.
It could've ended long before there were any cloud chasers to blame.

Anti-smokers/ex-smokers welcome me vaping in their homes and I have the ability to blow big clouds.
I've never been allowed to vape in any restaurant. No matter what the lawmakers say that is not who is pushing for laws. The ones pushing for laws are the ones who profit from dead smokers. It never was about the type of vaping except any type that allows people to stop paying taxes and MSA.

 

[Buckeyevapen]

The public associates all clouds, big and small, with vaping. Much of the non smoking and non vaping public don't care why we vape, they just don't want us to do either.

This is my frustration as well because it impacts how current smokers view vaping.
I swear if I could I would open a vape shop specifically for smokers and call it "quiters".
I would specialize in pods and as many have said here mods and tanks that have a proven track record helping folks.

 

[untar]

I was looking it up, and that chart was made in 2014, the 2017 section was a projected estimate.

Yes, that was a projection from 2014, it's one of the few not paywalled links in my bookmarks talking about growth. I should have put this one in from January 2017 which shows the projection wasn't so bad (page 8)
https://www.ey.com/Publication/vwLU...our_market/$FILE/BAT 2017_report_FINAL-lr.pdf
Since it's from early 2017 the 2017 numbers (and after) will obviously also be a projection but the numbers before 2017 are not.
Good data is hard to come by since it can be sold as market analysis and won't be for free.

 

[Buckeyevapen]

I don't think so...in fact with the new pods that's flooding in, its now a better time than ever to convert smokers to vaping. Much less fiddly and it satisfies the nic and hand to mouth craving....For me pods are the future of MTL.

I think you are right.

My wife still smokes and I would love for her to give a pod a try.

 

[Buckeyevapen]

The big opportunity was lost when employers, hotels, restaurants, etc started banning vaping. The best motivation for many was the ability to vape anywhere.

This to me is at the heart of the PR problem facing vaping. Until companies and business understand what they are banning the stigma of "vaping is just smoking" will continue.
In my mind the public perception is where I want to see greater momentum because if this were to change imagine the millions of smokers lives that would be improved?

 

[untar]

the public perception is where I want to see greater momentum

That's a tough nut to crack, the deck is stacked against us. We don't have a giant war chest and a worldwide network of coordinated actors in media, government and universities, we're still just some grassroots movement with a shared activity (and in most cases years long past smoking history).
Our narrative is very quiet in comparison to those whose profession is, and has been for decades now, to influence public opinion.

 

[dripster]

In the country where I live (Belgium), over the past year vaping has been being visibly in decline in favor of cigarette smoking. Due to more strict regulations compared to neighbouring countries combustible tobacco is winning the fight against vaping, as online sales of vaping products to consumers has been banned, vaping is legally considered smoking tobacco so vaping in public indoor places is not allowed and advertisments or discounts are not allowed. To let a customer taste juices before he/she buys them is legally considered advertising tobacco product so it too is not allowed. Many vape shops have started to struggle to survive or are headed that way.

Because we are forced to go outside to vape, vaping has become even less convenient or attractive than it used to be. Remember a lot of dual users who are trying very hard to vape more often in order to be able to smoke less cigarettes are already fighting an uphill battle because it is so much easier to just light up another bud as opposed to keep futzing around with a leaking tank or a "starter kit"-like setup that you have to keep recharging all the time and the vapor production of which cannot provide enough satisfaction compared to the instant gratification of smoking. As vaping became more popular, so did gratuitous ill advice from what I like to describe as chain shops that have kept popping up overnight like mushrooms pop out of the ground and whose main objective is to just make a fast buck by applying the old salesman's tactic. The majority of vapers are parroting this same ill advice because it is the most popular kind of advice so it all just keeps repeating itself.

People going outside to vape also creates the visible impression that vaping must be the same as smoking if not even worse. Not to mention the fact vaping during the first months of becoming an ex-smoker requires you to vape much more frequently compared to how frequently you would smoke another cigarette so people who are forced to go outside to vape in this fashion are forced to do so a lot, but usually their boss doesn't allow that because most bosses don't understand anything about how vaping works so these new restrictive laws are a recipe for disaster. Public health is under attack by those who are supposed to protect it.

Last but not least, nobody likes to see big clouds because, "that simply can't be good". Even those who vape are often trying to steer new vapers away from big clouds, when the reality is that I would still be smoking cigarettes if it hadn't been for the fact big clouds have caused me to stop smoking the same moment I picked up vaping. So the simple truth is big clouds on an RDA have, for me, effectively eliminated the aforementioned uphill battle that is so typifying of dual use.

 

[HauntedMyst]

Has our movement toward a healthier alternative lost its momentum?

No, the sheer amount of eliquid options and new user friendly hardware are clear indicators that it hasn't lost its way. If anything, it's main streaming which is a good thing as far as quitting smoking.

 

[Myk]

This is my frustration as well because it impacts how current smokers view vaping.
I swear if I could I would open a vape shop specifically for smokers and call it "quiters".
I would specialize in pods and as many have said here mods and tanks that have a proven track record helping folks.

And you would be shut down by the FDA because you are making medical claims. Tell me it's all about clouds with a government like that.

Because we are forced to go outside to vape, vaping has become even less convenient or attractive than it used to be.

I tried telling my city council that. Although I believe they don't think forcing vapers outside will keep people smoking I'm sure the tobacco control groups who get paid by how many cigarettes are sold who convinced my city council to ban vaping indoors know exactly what they are doing.

The only restaurants that were complaining were the restaurants that didn't allow vaping complaining so those that do wouldn't take away their customers.
This follows a set pattern around the world and has since the beginning. It even has the exact same phrases/speeches given around the world. This is not about some local people going to government begging for laws because someone blew too big of clouds.

 

[DaveP]

I don't see that many people vaping, but I go to the same places over and over. I agree that big clouds are what people see. They don't notice the stealth vaper standing off to the side.

It's a shame that some cities and even states are passing ordinances that only allow vaping outside. How can a vape shop sell vape products if they can't vape in their own vape shop? Liquor stores aren't allowed to give out free samples, and mall cigar stores can't smoke in the mall, so I guess Vape Law is in the same vein.

 

[Myk]

How can a vape shop sell vape products if they can't vape in their own vape shop?

That is an allowable concession. Ban it everywhere, give in to allowing stores so vapers think they won something. They allowed it in my city.
But I still don't think I've bought anything in my city since they passed it. And I know who I'm voting against the first chance I get.

 

[DaveP]

That is an allowable concession. Ban it everywhere, give in to allowing stores so vapers think they won something. They allowed it in my city.
But I still don't think I've bought anything in my city since they passed it. And I know who I'm voting against the first chance I get.

Vape shops are allowed to let customers and employees vape inside here, too. I'm in a state where tobacco has always been a huge cash crop. Go figure. Peanuts, Pecans, Cotton, Soybeans are first, followed by Tobacco.

 

[Uncle Willie]

I tried telling my city council that. Although I believe they don't think forcing vapers outside will keep people smoking I'm sure the tobacco control groups who get paid by how many cigarettes are sold who convinced my city council to ban vaping indoors know exactly what they are doing.

The only restaurants that were complaining were the restaurants that didn't allow vaping complaining so those that do wouldn't take away their customers.
This follows a set pattern around the world and has since the beginning. It even has the exact same phrases/speeches given around the world. This is not about some local people going to government begging for laws because someone blew too big of clouds.

Generally, at the Local Level, it is, in fact, constituents calling and emailing in complaints .. It's the perception of smoke .. now, who would advocate for an "Invisible Vape Liquid .. ?" .. No vape user that I know of .. we like to see the "puff" .. do away with that and you're Golden ..

 

[dripster]

And you would be shut down by the FDA because you are making medical claims. Tell me it's all about clouds with a government like that.




I tried telling my city council that. Although I believe they don't think forcing vapers outside will keep people smoking I'm sure the tobacco control groups who get paid by how many cigarettes are sold who convinced my city council to ban vaping indoors know exactly what they are doing.

The only restaurants that were complaining were the restaurants that didn't allow vaping complaining so those that do wouldn't take away their customers.
This follows a set pattern around the world and has since the beginning. It even has the exact same phrases/speeches given around the world. This is not about some local people going to government begging for laws because someone blew too big of clouds.

Well our minister of public health did claim in front of the news camera, after vapers had decided to go vape in front of her house during a protest manifestation, at a certain point the clouds grew so big that they were rising above her roof and that "that simply can't be good" so what more do you want me to say when it comes to the association between the visibility of the clouds and perceived harmfulness as opposed to rigorous scientific research on the topic of whether second hand vapor poses a serious threat to human health. You should see the red levels of nitrogen dioxide that are being detected almost every other day by my Dyson Pure Cool (2018 model) built-in sensor mechanism despite I don't even live in an area where there's a lot of car traffic, and compare those to the official charts from our state organization that officially monitors these levels, to get a handle on the grotesqueness of the true situation we are dealing with.

 

[untar]

Reminds me of something that happened in my city. They had a sensor for air quality, ozone, exhaust gases all that good stuff, on one of the main streets. The readings were very high at rush hours, in fact they were above certain allowable limits.
So they removed it from that street and put it in the middle of a botanical garden on a hill, everything is fine now

 

[dripster]

To further clarify my point about perceived harmfulness and how it is being abused by the anti-vaping lobbyists. Here are two scientific research articles concerning what we breathe.

Fragranced consumer products: exposures and effects from emissions

Health and societal effects from exposure to fragranced consumer products

So each time when one of my neighbours decides to use another overdose of deodorizer or use the kind of shampoo that's causing me to no longer be capable to taste the difference between vaping sweet tobaccocino and vaping kanzi, where should I go to complain? I mean, it isn't as if our government were planning on banning those extreme fragranced products anytime soon, now, is it?

 

[ajbr]

You bring up a very interesting point. When I first started vaping eight years ago all the e cig companies targeted their advertising messages towards converting people from cigarette smoking to vaping. The devices being sold were all MTL with various quality levels. In my opinion the big impact to vaping hardware began with Provari who produced, I believe, the highest quality device at the time on the market. Other manufactures started to produce better products such as the EGO Twist to compete. But still the thrust was to convert cigarette smokers to vapors. The industry and vaping itself has evolved greatly over the past five years with introduction of variable wattage vs variable voltage, temperature controlled devices, sub ohm vaping, Nic salts, pod systems, rebuildable coils, DIY juice and many other innovations. Most advertisements you see today from vape companies emphasize the new technologies as compared to what is currently available. It appears to me that this approach is targeted to current vapors and not so much to convert smokers to e cigarettes. I was able to convert a number of smokers to vapors over the years by explaining the basics of vaping which was pretty simple. If asked today what I would recommend to start with when converting, I would recommend a quality MTL setup to start (thats what smoking is) and explain that as they get more into vaping there are many other options to explore. I think this forum does a great job in educating both new vapors and veterans in this regard. I believe that manufactures should do a better job on there websites explaining starter kit recommendations vs the more advanced items. In closing I would like to say that I believe we as vapors are starting to make some progress to get vaping accepted as a much safer alternative to cigarette smoking but we still have a long way to go especially with all the "fake news" out there relating to vaping.

Vape on-Artie