Has WTA juice worked for you?

[cigarbabe]

It might be easier to list what I don't have

I started off with the ol' L88b Volcano and have pretty much progressed through all the usual Chinese stuff (801,901,401,510), then onto the eGos when they first came out. From there I went to mods, mostly mechanical tubes. Then into VV stuff. I bounce between my Don, Provari, the GLV Supermini, the P16, and the Touchwood. Occasionally I'll hit up the old Screwdrivers or the Altsmoke BB. I use my SB on the boat since it sits in a padded rod holder so perfectly. I run DCT tanks or LR cartos depending on device and mood. I also play with whatever new thing is out if the opportunity presents itself. I use Dekang, but also have some Halo, BWB, AVE, Aroma, MsT's, and Vermilion river stuff too.

I'm quite officially all over the darn place.

I'd love to have your Touchwood if you ever tire of it!
Why not give a shot to one of the great rebuildable atomizers?
I have a couple Zenesis APV's and I have to say most who use them have voluntarily lowered their nic {not that you should} simply because they work more efficiently at getting the hit/nic into you.
These have also made a big difference for many people.
I have a friend who vaped at 6v always wouldn't even hear of using anything lower because he felt that was the ideal voltage/hit for him but upon getting a Z-Atty G he is amazed how big and strong the "hit" is at 3.7.
So that may also help while you're "playing around with various voltages!
C.B.

 

[tinstar15]

I've been toying with the idea of getting a Z for a while now. Think I'll take your advise and try and find one.

On another note, I've been toying with a few sample liquids and found one that tastes like the Aroma WTA. Technically it's a mix of some DK tab and cocoa flavors. I just loaded two cartos, one with WTA, the other without. I marked the WTA with a scratch on the thread area to tell them apart. I'll shuffle them up and intentionally not look for the scratch. See if I can do a little Pepsi challenge taste test when I get home.

Now, I'm off to find a Z......wife's gonna kill me.

 

[tinstar15]

Well, I did my little blind choice test. I decided to use two identical 650mah ego batts set up with my favorite little 1.7 ohm mini cartos. I attached the cones to make any chance of distinguishing which carto was the WTA even more unlikely.

After using one for 20 minutes, the carto ran dry. I waited 15 minutes then tried the other. After about 20 minutes it ran dry.

With the first one I thought I felt something different but nothing strong enough to classify or even really describe. I was darn certain that the second one was the non-WTA. I pulled them apart and, sure enough, I had it wrong. The second was the WTA.

Now normally I'd have figured that either I'd picked up a dud batch or that WTA was a hoax. So I loaded another set of cartos and used a vape buddy as a guinea pig. I ran him through the same test. He described a very noticeable "feeling of satisfaction" with one and a "hmmmm" experience with the other. He nailed it dead on. He normally only vapes at work and either dips or smokes at home. He's been saying that he'll switch to vaping only eventually but he's been saying that for almost a year.

I know that no two people are alike and only testing on two people shouldn't be taken as establishing proof. I'm using the last tankful of WTA as I type this. The other 10ml bottle I had left went to my buddy since he seems to like it.

I'm pretty sure that there is some good to the WTA as far as being way less harmful than the real thing. Unfortunately it doesn't work on me. I'm relatively convinced that my medications for nerve damage are probably to blame. Or maybe since I've been vaping sooo long that WTA doesn't have an effect on me anymore.

 

[cigarbabe]

I don't know what level you use as far as nic but I like a high or an xtra high level of WTA along with 24mg or 36mg nic. I never use 36 in anything normally but all my WTA happened to have been made up at xtra high in 36 and it works astoundingly well for me. It also works in medium at 18 also though!
Whichever you get as far as I'm concerned it works really well for me and like you I take other meds mostly heavy duty painkillers but it still shines through for me!
C.B.

 

[tinstar15]

The stuff I have is my usual 18mg strength. I tried higher levels but was getting bad headaches. I figured that I was overdoing the nicotine. Oddly enough, with the higher nic you'd think that it would make it easier to put the pv down. Even though I was overdoing the nic, it still wasn't enough to kill the cravings hence why I figure that it must be more psychological instead of physical.

On a side note, the Touchwood is still being made. The guy does beautiful work. I never hesitate in recommending them. I suppose I could will it to you when I kick the bucket .

 

[hittman]

Tinstar it's too bad that the wta didn't work out for you. For me the psychological end of it is the toughest part. I've had other addictions that I've been able to quit and function without over the years but smoking is by far the hardest so far. It becomes such a big part of our lives in our daily routine that it is second nature. I still sometimes get the itch to go outside at work and have a smoke. It's not that I need the fix but that I got so used to going outside for that smoke break that sometimes I think I need to go do it.

 

[Stubby]

Tinstar 15: There are some different approaches to the problem you may want to try.

Back in the spring of 09, after failing to quit with vaping, I easily quit with snus. It was like falling off a log. At the time I thought I would still use e-cigs as something I would do at home when I wanted to relax. What I found is that using an e-cig actually made it harder for me to quit and whenever I vaped I thought about having a smoke. It was just to much like smoking.

It didn't take long for me to also quit vaping and it was essentially easy street after that.

I didn't pick up an e-cig until WTA became available. That was at least 2 1/2 years without touching an e-cig. I went through another round of vaping experimenting with WTA, but have run into the same problem. It's just to much like smoking to make a clean break.

I give up on it. My nice e-cig, and a bunch of WTA is collecting dust. I'm quite happy with snus and nasal snuff, which is something I recently got into again after a long break.

What I am trying to say is to not limit yourself to vaping. It just might not be your thing. There is a big world of different products that have a long proven record of being very low risk. This vaping thing just doesn't work for everyone. Perhaps you need a combination of things to keep you happy. Try everything. Get yourself some good Swedish snus, and some good UK snuff (my favorite country or origin for the nose powder), and perhaps some stonewall dissolvables. We all have different phycology and you have to find what works for you.

Don't get hung up on thinking vaping is the only way out. Even with WTA it's not for everyone. With all the struggles you are going through it likely past due to try something different.

 

[cigarbabe]

Stubby I'd be happy to have any of the WTA and gear you don't use!
Also tinstar if you want your buddy to start vaping he could come in to watch my show on Elixirtv which is on the stickam.com channel and as long as someone {you) vouches for him as a smoker I will give him a starter kit so he can start vaping.
My show is called "Naked in the Woods with Cigarbabe" elixirtv3 | Stickam
We'll be doing this several times a month at least. I like being able to help those who haven't been able to make the transition yet or anyone who could use a hand.
Come in and check us out!
C.B.

 

[tinstar15]

The offer is appreciated. He's got one of my old PS Icons and about 35 510 SR attys that I no longer had a use for. He's been vaping for about a year now and is definitely set for equipment, just not very motivated to quit. Maybe he'll switch with the WTA.

The show sounds cool, I'll try and catch it

 

[lannister]

I didn't notice anything different from WTA.

 

[radiokaos]

The offer is appreciated. He's got one of my old PS Icons and about 35 510 SR attys that I no longer had a use for. He's been vaping for about a year now and is definitely set for equipment, just not very motivated to quit. Maybe he'll switch with the WTA.

The show sounds cool, I'll try and catch it

Having the best Mod's with all the high nic and WTA that one can vape is not going to help, unless they are motivated to make the switch.

I'm tempted quite often....of course others would be too if they were shoveling 100 lbs of fresh uncut tobacco.

 

[haiqu]

Can't get it here in Australia, but planning to try it if I can.

 

[Drael]

Absolutely worked for me. Just to put in my 2c here

When I first tried it (vapelicious's ones), id been about a week on nic only.

I was pretty wired, _lots_ of craving still, and a bit stimulated. That would probably be withdrawl, and the fact that pure nic seems to be a stimulant when it comes by itself. I wasnt yet in a pattern of chain vaping, using high nic or anything like that, but it was still more hand to mouth than smoking was.

My first puff of the x-tra high WTA with 24mg nic, gave me a little bit of a headspin, just like id just puffed on a ciggerette after a time away from smoking. That told me straight away that this was different.

It was, unlike the nic only e-liquid, _relaxing_.

I eased into it, and I found that whereas nic only releived only a small amount of the craving, WTA somewhat emulated the feeling of actually smoking a cigarette, ie that mix of stimulation and relaxation.

I beleive thats the maoi's bringing out the beta-endorphins from the nicotine.

Id say though, that even strong WTA is obviously still well short of the cigarette feeling. Id put it somewhere around 50% of the cigarette "satisfaction". Thats a good thing though, we all need a "step down", when we are addicted.

Instead of never feeling "satified", always having nervousness and craving, like with the nic only, id take a few puffs on the WTA, and put the pv down.

For me, that is enough to willpower away from smoking (I still had craving especially for the morning ciggie for about a month, but the WTA makes it actually doable for folks to quit).

Having something with a similar or identical profile of effect (mentally alerting but physically relaxing), but compartively mild, is really the perfect way to wean yourself off any powerful addiction.

Especially when it suddenly lacks a whole load of very harmful toxicants and carcinogens too!

On reflection, its really no wonder NRTs dont work!

It just doesnt really make sense replacing a combined relaxant and stimulant effect, with just a stimulant (especially when the ROA is different)

And good for you, everyone thats actually managed on nic alone. Impressive!

So, yeah, if you struggle giving up smoking, WTA's are defo worth a shot IMO.


Its a godsend for me, because without it, I wouldnt have much real hope at all of giving up ciggies. Nic only, even in an e-cig, never would have cut it. I am sure this must be true of a high percentage of smokers. Smoking is after all, roughly as addictive as "coke" based on the statistics.

I am very thankful to dvap, the early triallers, ECF, and the visionary suppliers for this brilliant product. Be proud, your helping and have helped people who really need it.

Long-term, I want to either quit vaping, or become a very casual vaper.

And I will do so, I believe, using a slowly tapered amount of wta and nic, just like the first step of getting off the stinkies is a managable "step down" with wta's, so should the rest of the journey also be managable.

 

[Drael]

I'm tempted quite often....of course others would be too if they were shoveling 100 lbs of fresh uncut tobacco.

lol

Yeah giving up addiction is always harder when one is exposed to your prior "thing" :/

And it does take willpower for sure. I cant imagine having a job like that!

Thanks though, sincerely, for doing what you do. I think that you should be proud that your business is really helping people. Not many folks can really say that.

 

[Drael]

As a side point....

Tolerance and its effects on WTA.

If your still taking in tobacco, in any form, because this is weaker, you probably wont notice any big difference due to _tolerance_.

The same may be likely true too if your vaping very high nic, or chain vaping.

(because I beleive essentially the action is maoi enhancing the beta-endorpin effects of nicotine, if your brains nicotine response is muted/tolerant, that could play in).

So, tolerance is something to really factor in when assessing wta's effect on you, given its already milder than smoking.

If I had smoked the day before switching to wta's I probably wouldnt have noticed the effect as much (or at all. And I am very observant to changes in my body/mind)

For that reason, if you have been smoking, or using high nic, or chain vaping, Id suggest really taking some time with the WTA's, and let your brain adjust its internal volume levels before you make up your mind on them.

Its not the kind of difference thats always going to be immediately obvious to everyone (some people are more sensitive to changes than others), but knowing pharmacology, my gut instinct is that tolerance is the major factor, and thats probably most of why some people dont get what they want from wtas.

Enough of any particular brain effect, and your brain stops responding to it.

Its a hard fact of neurobiology.

I am not sure how long the this tolerance would take to reverse, but I guess at least one to two weeks, of no tobacco/snus etc, or lower nic intake in general/no chain vaping, in most cases should be a rough minimum.

On this speculation, I think that if one really wants to give wta's a go, and one has these sorts of tolerances going on in ya brain, that you should probably give wta's at least that long of a trial to see if it works for you.

During that time you should probably just be using wta's, no other liquids (to help reduce chain vaping and nicotinic tolerance).

Overall point being, neuro-chemically for either a current smoker, or a long term, heavy vaper, it could be a bit of an adjustment for your brain.

If you try WTA's and they dont seem to work, I wouldnt straight off the bat put it down to "my chemistry is different", or "these things dont work".

I mean unless your tolerance is dirt low like mine was (I got a little dizzy, lol), its not much of a super obvious effect anyway. But, here, my first suspicion would be either WTA tolerance, or nicotinic tolerance. If either has a high level of tolerance, you maybe wont get enough beta-endorphins to notice a difference.

If your on certain medications that also could intervene with the effect.

(FYI, this is a hobbyist interest of mine, neurobiology and pharmacology, but I do also have a degree in psychology.

The maoi activity, particularly mao-b inhibition, of wta's like anatabine, should definately enhance the beta-endorphin activity of the nicotine - same as mao-bs also enhance other very similar actions.

So if your tolerant to either mao-b effects, or nicotine, via either current tobacco consumption, or high nic/frequent vaping, the effect could be muted)

Not sure at all if this has been brought up, but thought id put in my 2c on this...

 

[DC2]

Interesting posts there Drael.

I only smoked about 7 cigarettes per day, but I did that for about 27 years.
Nicotine doesn't have much of an effect on me, but my first go at WTA juice certainly did.

I use it sparingly, when I am stressed and need the relaxing effect it gives me.
But it hits me pretty hard when I do use it.

 

[Drael]

^ Yeah, well thats how I found WTA. I definately notice the difference in relaxation when I vape WTAs vs nic only.

I am just speculating on the other stuff there.



Presumably you need both actions (mao-b, and nicotine), based on the IMO likely seeming idea of it being the beta-endorphins that is the major difference in the effect.

I am not _sure_ if high nic intake, or chain vaping would make alot of difference to your ability to perceive wta effects, but it makes sense it would.

You still need the nic, to get the beta-endorphins flowing, the anatabine just boosts it up alot, it doesnt, by itself, produce it. Perhaps a bit like fuel and a spark as an analogy (not a great one lol, but it will do)

I am definately sure, that if you were taking in tobacco, via snus, or smoking, or whatever, that would for sure inhibit your perception of a wta effect, because its not as strong as tobacco itself.

Tolerance is why it hit me like a ciggie on first vape, and made me dizzy, cause id only had a mini with 16mg/ml all week (which per puff is about half what a ciggie gives, so even if I was doing it a little bit more than smoking, chemically, i was low tolerance).

Its probably why you feel it strongly.

But Ive heard of people vaping of upwards of 30mgs (in theory past about 30mgs, and especially in a high end PV, youd start to getting more nic per puff than a ciggie), and also having their pv in their hand basically all day. In either scenario, or any rough combination, you could be getting alot more nic. More nic, more tolerance, less effect from the nic.

If your were vaping high nic, or alot of vaping, in roughly such a manner, tolerance may be working against ya re: feeling wta's, because the nic may no longer be elicting beta-endorphins enough for the anatabine to boost em. (no fuel to spark)

In contrast however, you would have no tolerance to the anatabine, so the mao-b effect youd get would be very strong. So youd have to have plateud out your nic's beta-endorphin effect pretty well, in order to feel nothing.

Again, all just speculation, but it kinda makes sense to me.

At least, it might well be worth asking folks who dont get anything from wta

* what nic level do you vape
* how heavily do you vape (even do you use a high end PV)?
* do you use tobacco still (snus/smoke whatever)?
* do you use medications

Just to see if this tolerance stuff is a factor....