Hawaii WAM SB 2495 latest

[Hulamoon]

at this url

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2014/bills/SB2495_SD1_.pdf

I hate them. I hate them. I hate them.

 

[DrMA]

Terrible news! Now I can't visit HI anymore

 

[doctadrea]

That's just a proposed bill, it hasn't passed yet.

 

[Hulamoon]

Keep writing your letters and emails please. If Hawaii gets away with it, other states will follow. The nitwits in charge here make New York's look like rocket scientists who gave e-cigs a fair hearing.

 

[Vchick]

This is sad news.....

I see a new lot of flashlight stores opening up......

 

[dr g]

Ways and Means passed SB 2495 out of committee this morning, however the vote was pretty weak with only 4 unreserved ayes vs 3 ayes w/ reservation and 4 outright noes. As far as I understand, that is a very weak vote by Hawaii's monolithic party standards. This means that there is a lot of concern about voting for this bill and it could be stopped or maybe even fall apart on its own.

What I think may be working or at least helping is putting the scientific studies in testimony. This makes SURE legislators know that the assertion that there isn't science on e-cigarettes is a lie. I suspect a thick packet of testimony draws legislators' attention as well.

One interesting subplot is that the primary challenger to Hawaii's current governor, Sen. Ige, voted full aye on this one (he happens to be the WAM chair). IMO he totally blew it there, the anti-vaping law is part of Gov. Abercrombie's legislative package, and Ige could have staked out a solid populist position to differentiate himself. Instead he wussed out. Then again he is also funded by Pfizer.

 

[Hulamoon]

Great info Dr G. - I find myself stalking and pinning down to the floor anyone I see downtown who's vaping and scream at them "Write to the senators! Just say NO!!!! to SB2495!!!". Got a couple of them today. So if you don't hear from me for awhile it's because crazed woman was reported and has been hauled off for evaluation...

 

[Luisa]

Great info Dr G. - I find myself stalking and pinning down to the floor anyone I see downtown who's vaping and scream at them "Write to the senators! Just say NO!!!! to SB2495!!!". Got a couple of them today. So if you don't hear from me for awhile it's because crazed woman was reported and has been hauled off for evaluation...

Vapors in Hawaii did it before and I feel you will you will be successful again! Go for it--keep sending the REAL scientific info to them.

 

[dr g]

SB2495 goes to senate vote on tuesday, 3/4. everyone in hawaii needs to contact their senators.

 

[doctadrea]

My stupid senator's the stupid one who proposed the bill. Rosalyn H. Baker.

 

[VapieDan]

at this url

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/session2014/bills/SB2495_SD1_.pdf

I hate them. I hate them. I hate them.

This is the normal route to obtain tax revenue. The proposed amounts are minimal. As time goes on they have their foot in the door and the rates will jump astronomically. Here in Michigan the tax rate on a $6.00 pack of cigarettes is about 50% making "their" take about $3.00. Think about that . How many packs are sold every day/month/year? These politicians are terrified they are going to loose the $3.00 per pack if E-cigs are as effective as they appear to be. It's all about the money folks. The behavior for regulating the use is just a method of demonizing them to justify the taxes. I am posting my "Cigarettes Save" banner below. I screwed Michigan out of $4,000 in taxes in the last 3 years and I'm proud of it!

 

[VapieDan]

By the way I will further prognosticate on what they will attack. Mods? E-Cig kits? Nope. If so minimal included in sales tax. The consumable is the repetitive sale. E-liquid will be the target. I smoked a pipe for a number of years. I have never heard of a "Pipe tax" anywhere. They went after tobacco. This is where it gets interesting. Politicians are dumb. Read that legislation if you are not convinced.
Regulating an item with no proof of harm? So e-liquids will be thrown in with tobacco and taxed at a similar absurd rate. Hawaii laid the groundwork for that in this legislation. Did you notice? So after the taxes hit some sort of extreme level it will be DIY for everyone! Finally after some period of time they will see these revenues drop they will attack DIY items as well more than likely nicotine solutions. It happened here in Michigan and elsewhere with cigarettes. Roll your own took off because loose tobacco was taxed far less. Yup new higher taxes on "cigarette tobacco" Let's see if history repeats itself.

 

[VapieDan]

Ways and Means passed SB 2495 out of committee this morning, however the vote was pretty weak with only 4 unreserved ayes vs 3 ayes w/ reservation and 4 outright noes. As far as I understand, that is a very weak vote by Hawaii's monolithic party standards. This means that there is a lot of concern about voting for this bill and it could be stopped or maybe even fall apart on its own.

What I think may be working or at least helping is putting the scientific studies in testimony. This makes SURE legislators know that the assertion that there isn't science on e-cigarettes is a lie. I suspect a thick packet of testimony draws legislators' attention as well.

One interesting subplot is that the primary challenger to Hawaii's current governor, Sen. Ige, voted full aye on this one (he happens to be the WAM chair). IMO he totally blew it there, the anti-vaping law is part of Gov. Abercrombie's legislative package, and Ige could have staked out a solid populist position to differentiate himself. Instead he wussed out. Then again he is also funded by Pfizer.

Your last line sums it up. The NRTs are dead if E-Cigs live!

 

[dr g]

My stupid senator's the stupid one who proposed the bill. Rosalyn H. Baker.

She is one of the most heavily funded by Pfizer. Only 2nd to Abercrombie I think.

 

[Hulamoon]

Latest here:
SB2495 SD3.DOC

 

[Tedlee]

By the way I will further prognosticate on what they will attack. Mods? E-Cig kits? Nope. If so minimal included in sales tax. The consumable is the repetitive sale. E-liquid will be the target. I smoked a pipe for a number of years. I have never heard of a "Pipe tax" anywhere. They went after tobacco. This is where it gets interesting. Politicians are dumb. Read that legislation if you are not convinced.
Regulating an item with no proof of harm? So e-liquids will be thrown in with tobacco and taxed at a similar absurd rate. Hawaii laid the groundwork for that in this legislation. Did you notice? So after the taxes hit some sort of extreme level it will be DIY for everyone! Finally after some period of time they will see these revenues drop they will attack DIY items as well more than likely nicotine solutions. It happened here in Michigan and elsewhere with cigarettes. Roll your own took off because loose tobacco was taxed far less. Yup new higher taxes on "cigarette tobacco" Let's see if history repeats itself.

I agree with you. It seems very wrong to regulate items with no proof of harm, or regulate due to fear or the unknown. There has got to be some sort of legal recourse for ignorant laws like this.

 

[Hulamoon]

Can anyone tell me what this means?

3/4/2014 S Floor Amendment No. 3 offered.
3/4/2014 S Floor amendment adopted as amended (SD 3). (this is the idiot Tax department recommendations per my 2nd link)
3/4/2014 S Separated Committee Report.
3/4/2014 S Report filed.
3/4/2014 S 48 Hrs. Notice 03-04-14.

 

[DrMA]

It seems to me that the definition of "tobacco product" from this bill does not include products made from synthetic nicotine. This can be a very useful loophole.

"any product, other than cigarettes or little cigars, made or derived from tobacco, that contains nicotine or other substances, and is intended for human consumption or is likely to be consumed, whether smoked, heated, chewed, absorbed, dissolved, inhaled, or ingested by any other means, including but not limited to a large cigar, pipe tobacco, chewing tobacco, snuff, snus, or an electronic smoking device."

 

[dr g]

Senate passed SB2495. Measure Status
Goes to House now.

Can anyone tell me what this means?

3/4/2014 S Floor Amendment No. 3 offered.
3/4/2014 S Floor amendment adopted as amended (SD 3). (this is the idiot Tax department recommendations per my 2nd link)
3/4/2014 S Separated Committee Report.
3/4/2014 S Report filed.
3/4/2014 S 48 Hrs. Notice 03-04-14.

There was a floor amendment offered and the bill was amended. Not a substantal or positive amendment. Then the 48 hour voting notice was given again.

 

[DrMA]

Does it really say "effective 7/1/2050"?