Hearing Misinformation About Cotton From Vape Store Clerks

[RPadTV]

Today's column was inspired by a chat I heard between a vape store clerk and a customer. The customer was somewhat new to vaping and was asking about cotton wicks. Unfortunately, some of the things the vape shop salesman said were misleading or false. While there are many reasons why cotton is popular as a wicking material, it's not as "safe" as some vapers believe. Sadly, this vape shop employee is spreading bad information about cotton instead of educating vapers on what it offers and what it doesn't.

I believe that it was irresponsible for the clerk to give the customer information that inaccurate or untrue. Have you ever heard bad information being spread by people that work at a vape shop?

 

[ScottP]

QUOTED FROM:

In addition to being chemically treated for sterility and color, the sterile cotton balls that many vapers use were made from cotton staple that was grown with pesticides. Fear of pesticide inhalation is why some vapers choose organic cotton over the sterile version.

You do realize that very same "sterile cotton" is used in the medical field to apply medications to, and to stop bleeding from OPEN WOUNDS. If it was covered in poisonous substances it would not be used in this manner for fear of the toxins entering the bloodstream directly. Direct bloodstream contamination by toxins is generally far worse than contamination from inhalation.

 

[RPadTV]

You do realize that very same "sterile cotton" is used in the medical field to apply medications to, and to stop bleeding from OPEN WOUNDS. If it was covered in poisonous substances it would not be used in this manner for fear of the toxins entering the bloodstream directly. Direct bloodstream contamination by toxins is generally far worse than contamination from inhalation.

In the article I pulled a quote from the CVS box that said, "To be used for application of antiseptics, medications and to cleanse scratches, cuts, or minor wounds." So yes, I "do realize" that sterile cotton is used that way.

That said, I don't see your example as "proof" of anything. Minutes or hours of use to stop bleeding during an injury isn't the same thing as months or years of frequent daily inhalation. I believe it's conjecture to use the medical treatment example to come to the conclusion that vaping on cotton wicks is completely safe. The reality is that nobody knows right now, which was repeatedly stated in the article.

 

[ScottP]

In the article I pulled a quote from the CVS box that said, "To be used for application of antiseptics, medications and to cleanse scratches, cuts, or minor wounds." So yes, I "do realize" that sterile cotton is used that way.

That said, I don't see your example as "proof" of anything. Minutes or hours of use to stop bleeding during an injury isn't the same thing as months or years of frequent daily inhalation. I believe it's conjecture to use the medical treatment example to come to the conclusion that vaping on cotton wicks is completely safe. The reality is that nobody knows right now, which was repeatedly stated in the article.

You seriously think that cotton with pesticide residue and other harmful chemicals is being used on open wounds? Seriously? Of course not. Any safety concern for cotton use is going to be from inhalation of any fibers (if that actually happens), NOT from pesticides or chemicals in the cotton.

As to relative safety, I doubt that dry hits are going to be 100% safe since you are inhaling burned organic materials. However, sterile vs organic isn't going to matter at that point. I would however wager that as long as those dry hits are infrequent they are very likely to be much safer than standing next to a smoking BBQ pit (but dang that smells so good), or even sitting around a camp fire inhaling burning organic compounds that are NOT sterile. Is cotton safer than silica? Here you are correct that there is very little known about inhaling silica and any comparison at this point is premature.

 

[yellowrider]

So sick of the unknown.. Then just walk around with oxygen tank... LOL sorry, had to say it..
But in all honestly, your inspired blog appears to be more arsenal for more negative press for ecig. I'm very comfortable with my cotton use and will continue to do so regardless of any blog.

 

[Rickajho]

I believe that it was irresponsible for the clerk to give the customer information that inaccurate or untrue. Have you ever heard bad information being spread by people that work at a vape shop?

Here ya go: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/555022-authentic-kanger-protank-ii-atomizer-not-rebuildable.html

 

[RPadTV]

You seriously think that cotton with pesticide residue and other harmful chemicals is being used on open wounds? Seriously?

Again, I don't see what the medical use of cotton has to do with anything. It's being used for seconds or minutes in most cases. In drastic circumstances, it's used for hours. How does that compare to frequent inhalation over the course of months or years?

As for there being chemicals in the cotton, yes, I believe that they're there. Whether it's from the soil or the treatment process, sterile cotton certainly has chemicals in it. As to how harmful they are -- again, specifically in the case of daily inhalation -- nobody knows at this time.

As to relative safety, I doubt that dry hits are going to be 100% safe since you are inhaling burned organic materials. However, sterile vs organic isn't going to matter at that point. I would however wager that as long as those dry hits are infrequent they are very likely to be much safer than standing next to a smoking BBQ pit (but dang that smells so good), or even sitting around a camp fire inhaling burning organic compounds that are NOT sterile.

I agree. There is a lot of potential for user error. To the point made in the original article, this goes against cotton being "completely safe," which is what the store clerk said.

Is cotton safer than silica? Here you are correct that there is very little known about inhaling silica and any comparison at this point is premature.

Yes, but there are many vapers that believe cotton is safer. Back to the original point, it bothered me that a vape shop clerk would tell a customer that cotton is "much safer" than silica.

 

[RPadTV]

But in all honestly, your inspired blog appears to be more arsenal for more negative press for ecig.

Not the intent at all. If anything it's a call for vape shop employees to be more responsible with what they tell customers.

I'm very comfortable with my cotton use and will continue to do so regardless of any blog.

That's great. If it works for you and you're comfortable with it then you can't beat that. The idea is that more vapers should informed about what they're inhaling and this particular vape shop employee was giving a customer bad information.

 

[Dj tank]

I'ma roll the dice and say I don't care. I use organic cotton...it might give me dame brammage some day but not before the alcohol and women kills me.

 

[zahzoo]

Rpad, Hmmm it would appear you are taking a position of caution with regards to the use of cotton as a wicking material and bad information being disseminated by vape shop employees...

It would also appear you "believe" chemicals are in the cotton, but do not know nor present any facts to support it.

If you have no more factual information than the vape store employee, what makes your blog any different or relevant to the discussion of using cotton wick?

 

[ScottP]

I agree no one should ever say anything is 100% safe, because nothing is...ever. Anyone that thinks in terms of absolute safety is either delusional or ignorant. I think in terms of relative safety. Wearing a seat belt does not guarantee you will survive a crash, but it can improve your odds. Having a smoke detector in your house doesn't guarantee you won't die in a fire, but it does improve your odds. Vaping is probably not going to be 100% safe, but regardless of if you use cotton (sterile or organic), silica, or mesh, it is not going to contain 4000 chemicals plus 69 known carcinogens. Not to mention it is very likely more safe than breathing the air in most metropolitan areas.

What the shop owner should have said is "No one knows if silica or cotton is safer than the other, so just use which ever one tastes the best to you. It's all safer than smoking for sure anyway." As to the Organic vs Sterile cotton, I still say that if organic was cleaner it would be used in the medical field instead of sterile. You choose your option, and I'll choose mine.

 

[planes]

Vaping isn't 100% safe which is the missing argument. No one says it is. We all do it with that risk in mind or at least should. IMO it's far safer than tobacco. Tobacco has 1000's of ingredients and if one is coming from tobacco, as most are, then it seems to me the risks have been greatly reduced but not completely.

The differences in harm between silica and cotton are probably benign but I tast the silica in my vape so I use cotton and I think inhaling cotton particles is safer than silica particles.

 

[deach]

Honestly, a lot of this is an unknown. Who's to say "who's done what to whatever" wicking material we're using. There's no way to tell. Just as in the juices we buy. We hope we know what's in there but with so many different brands and suppliers it's just impossible to tell. I hear different stories at various shops, some are better (more accurate in my opinion from experience) than others. Honestly who's to say in 30 or 40 years any of this is actually "good" for us. Better than cigarettes yes, of this there isn't much debate however who really knows. Vape on and be happy. Use what works for you and what you feel safe with. That is my .02 of course YMMV

 

[ScottP]

The differences in harm between silica and cotton are probably benign but I tast the silica in my vape so I use cotton and I think inhaling cotton particles is safer than silica particles.

Actually that is why I prefer cotton. When I use silica, there seems to an underlying taste that reminds me of the way a fresh band-aid smells. It's just gross. Also the flavor seems to be more muted with silica vs cotton.

To be perfectly honest though, IF there is anything in vaping that is going to turn out to be harmful, I feel like it will ultimately be the flavorings used. A few years back a problem was found with the artificial butter flavoring used in microwave popcorn. Factory workers that were inhaling this stuff during manufacturing developed respiratory problems (now called "popcorn lung") from the chemicals in the flavoring. That particular flavoring has been banned and a new flavoring is now used by all manufacturers, BUT you never know what or when another flavoring will be shown to cause problems when inhaled in large doses.

 

[Fulgurant]

Organic cotton - bleached with hydrogen peroxide, untreated otherwise. Hydrogen Peroxide sounds deadly dangerous, but in the wake of the bleaching process, hydrogen peroxide naturally degrades into .... drumroll please ...

Water and oxygen.

What we know about silica and organic cotton is that both are good wicking materials. Cotton wicks a little more efficiently in my experience, and tastes a little cleaner -- but it's far more fragile than silica. A dry hit could burn cotton, whereas silica ain't gonna burn in any e-cig -- but by the same token, inhaling indestructible silica fragments probably isn't good for your health. In either case, though, the amount of bad stuff you're likely to inhale, even over a very long period of time, is negligible. For all of the browning cotton wicks I've pulled out of my atomizers, I've yet to see one that was breaking apart, or even noticeably degraded, structurally. Both types of wick rinse nearly clean, when I've bothered to try.

We don't know for sure which is safer, or indeed whether either one is 100% safe, but that's an impossible standard. The real question is whether we have any good reason to believe that either cotton or silica poses a significant danger -- and the answer to that question is an emphatic "No." The OP is quite right to object to the B&M staffer's assertion that cotton's definitively safer than silica, but the OP's own assertions about the dangers of cotton are, likewise, profoundly overwrought.

 

[Fulgurant]

Actually that is why I prefer cotton. When I use silica, there seems to an underlying taste that reminds me of the way a fresh band-aid smells. It's just gross. Also the flavor seems to be more muted with silica vs cotton.

To be perfectly honest though, IF there is anything in vaping that is going to turn out to be harmful, I feel like it will ultimately be the flavorings used. A few years back a problem was found with the artificial butter flavoring used in microwave popcorn. Factory workers that were inhaling this stuff during manufacturing developed respiratory problems (now called "popcorn lung") from the chemicals in the flavoring. That particular flavoring has been banned and a new flavoring is now used by all manufacturers, BUT you never know what or when another flavoring will be shown to cause problems when inhaled in large doses.

Yeah, flavorings are the most plausible source of potential long-term harm. There's also a small amount of uncertainty vis-a-vis the regular and long-term inhalation of PG/VG -- which we know to be safe in principle, but which have nevertheless never been used by so many people in the way that we use them. Ultimately we all have to accept that we're pioneers, which means we're guinea pigs to some extent. All in all, though, the risks -- to the extent that there are risks -- are pretty insignificant, certainly insignificant in comparison with the known harms smoldering in the nearest ashtray.

Wick material doesn't even rate on the list of things to worry about.

 

[RPadTV]

Rpad, Hmmm it would appear you are taking a position of caution with regards to the use of cotton as a wicking material and bad information being disseminated by vape shop employees...

It would also appear you "believe" chemicals are in the cotton, but do not know nor present any facts to support it.

If you have no more factual information than the vape store employee, what makes your blog any different or relevant to the discussion of using cotton wick?

Chemical use in cotton seems obvious to me and I didn't think I had to state it, but I could. Cotton is not white. Bleach or peroxide is used to give it a white color. Cotton is grown on farms, the majority of which use pesticides. Again, that should be fairly obvious. Some pesticides -- DDT for example -- have long half-lives and can remain in the soil.

There's a link in the article that covers pesticide use in growing cotton. Did you miss that?

More to the point, how do you justify any of the quotes from the vape shop clerk?

I agree no one should ever say anything is 100% safe, because nothing is...ever. Anyone that thinks in terms of absolute safety is either delusional or ignorant. I think in terms of relative safety. Wearing a seat belt does not guarantee you will survive a crash, but it can improve your odds. Having a smoke detector in your house doesn't guarantee you won't die in a fire, but it does improve your odds. Vaping is probably not going to be 100% safe, but regardless of if you use cotton (sterile or organic), silica, or mesh, it is not going to contain 4000 chemicals plus 69 known carcinogens. Not to mention it is very likely more safe than breathing the air in most metropolitan areas.

What the shop owner should have said is "No one knows if silica or cotton is safer than the other, so just use which ever one tastes the best to you. It's all safer than smoking for sure anyway." As to the Organic vs Sterile cotton, I still say that if organic was cleaner it would be used in the medical field instead of sterile. You choose your option, and I'll choose mine.

I agree. Also to be clear, it wasn't the store owner. It was an employee. Still, with such a new business, some customers rely on people that work in vape shops for information. And what the clerk said was misleading or untrue.

Vaping isn't 100% safe which is the missing argument. No one says it is. We all do it with that risk in mind or at least should. IMO it's far safer than tobacco. Tobacco has 1000's of ingredients and if one is coming from tobacco, as most are, then it seems to me the risks have been greatly reduced but not completely.

The differences in harm between silica and cotton are probably benign but I tast the silica in my vape so I use cotton and I think inhaling cotton particles is safer than silica particles.

Also agreed. The thing to keep in mind is that most of the people that participate in ECF or usually more informed than a guy/girl that walks into a vape shop. There are a lot of great resources here. Some people rely on clerks at a vape shop, Best Buy, Gamestop, etc. for information. It's unfortunate when customers are looking for information and get fed mistruths.

 

[zahzoo]

I agree flavorings may be the most suspect in potential harm...

This cotton -vs- silica question somewhat resembles the kanthal -vs- nichrome wire for making coils debate.

 

[RPadTV]

The OP is quite right to object to the B&M staffer's assertion that cotton's definitively safer than silica, but the OP's own assertions about the dangers of cotton are, likewise, profoundly overwrought.

I think you're inferring. I don't have an opinion on cotton being safer or more dangerous than any other wicking material; certainly I'm not smart enough to know either way, but I also think it's foolish to believe that there aren't any dangers with using cotton wick. (And for the people that didn't read the article, I do use cotton for vaping.)

I do have an issue with the opinion that cotton is "completely safe," which is the impression some vapers have and what the vape store clerk stated as fact.

 

[blueGrassTubb]

That's why most use orgnaic cotton. No nasty chemicals. And the "bleaching" agent used to whiten the cotton is hydrogen peroxide, a completely harmless substance that breaks down to water and oxygen.