Hearing Misinformation About Cotton From Vape Store Clerks

[ScottP]

I think you're inferring. I don't have an opinion on cotton being safer or more dangerous than any other wicking material; certainly I'm not smart enough to know either way, but I also think it's foolish to believe that there aren't any dangers with using cotton wick. (And for the people that didn't read the article, I do use cotton for vaping.)

I agree with this, but then have to wonder why you seem to say that organic cotton is safer than sterile with apparent certainty. I just cannot believe that organic is somehow cleaner and less "contaminated" than sterile. If that were the case then the medical field would be using organic instead of sterile.

 

[zahzoo]

Chemical use in cotton seems obvious to me and I didn't think I had to state it, but I could. Cotton is not white. Bleach or peroxide is used to give it a white color. Cotton is grown on farms, the majority of which use pesticides. Again, that should be fairly obvious. Some pesticides -- DDT for example -- have long half-lives and can remain in the soil.

There's a link in the article that covers pesticide use in growing cotton. Did you miss that?

More to the point, how do you justify any of the quotes from the vape shop clerk?

LOL cotton is not white... seriously? Have you ever been in or driven by a cotton field near harvest time? Maybe on Planet Awesome it's some other color..?

I live in an area where cotton crops are still grown. Maybe you should venture out a bit...

DDT is not used used in the US and hasn't been since it was banned in 1972.

Once cotton has been picked, cleaned, processed and washed little to no pesticide residue exists externally on the fibers. Since we're not ingesting nor even inhaling the fibers whatever may exist internally would be insignificant. Whatever is left behind is the soil doesn't matter I'm not using soil in my atty's. Sterile cotton would be free of any/all chemicals for medical use.

Since we're talking about reduced harm reduction... cotton as a delivery mechanism to get juice to coils and the coils generating about 150 degrees of heat... the cotton is not being combusted and I would venture an educated guess that anyone would be hard pressed to even find anything within vapor that came from the cotton in measurable amounts.

So with that... the vape store employee was offering an opinion. How well supported that opinion was based on factual knowledge... none of us know. What I do know is cotton works and tastes better than silica... what matters most is any risk of pesticides in that tiny bit of cotton is exponentially less than the tobacco I previously burned.

 

[raspberryblu]

I think you're inferring. I don't have an opinion on cotton being safer or more dangerous than any other wicking material; certainly I'm not smart enough to know either way, but I also think it's foolish to believe that there aren't any dangers with using cotton wick. (And for the people that didn't read the article, I do use cotton for vaping.)

I do have an issue with the opinion that cotton is "completely safe," which is the impression some vapers have and what the vape store clerk stated as fact.

So is your point to all of this that the B&M clerk should not be stating something you believe to be untrue, or is it that you believe cotton to be adverse to your health when being used as a wick for vaping?

I dunno, but it seems as though you're trying to raise some sort of issue where none currently exists. Most vapers accept that there are unknown risks with vaping but do it anyway because we feel it is a much safer alternative than smoking cigarettes. My take on it is this, if vaping kills me at least I won't stink on the way down.

The whole "vaping is really dangerous" debate has no place on a pro-vaping forum unless you can provide real proof that vapers can use to make educated decisions. Anything else is just conjecture and histrionics and only muddies the waters.

As to your original point, perhaps this guy read an article much like the one you're touting as gospel that argues the opposite point that cotton is safer. Without concrete proof such as a published study, the correct answer should be "we really don't know for sure". I'm sure I can obtain some sort of "proof" of any point I'm trying to make with a few clicks of a mouse.

 

[Nightshard]

Using cotton as wicks may not be entirely safe, but that same can be said for PG, VG, Coloring, flavoring, so what's your point?

 

[ScottP]

LOL cotton is not white... seriously? Have you ever been in or driven by a cotton field near harvest time? Maybe on Planet Awesome it's some other color..?

Reminds me of something I said back in Sept to someone else in this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...473978-cotton-wick-safety-3.html#post10836620

I probably should add that I personally use Cotton Yarn that I have boiled a few times.

 

[tj99959]

Guess I will have to dip my e-liquid in alcohol to steralize it before I put in the bottles that I just steralized.




gin or vodks .... decisions ... decisions

 

[ScottP]

Guess I will have to dip my e-liquid in alcohol to steralize it before I put in the bottles that I just steralized.

Nah. Lucky for us, PG is an antimicrobial agent.

 

[zahzoo]

Reminds me of something I said back in Sept to someone else in this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...473978-cotton-wick-safety-3.html#post10836620

I probably should add that I personally use Cotton Yarn that I have boiled a few times.

I used to boil... Even had a batch disappear. Where's my cotton balls..? "Oh I threw them away I thought they were used... "

But then I came to the conclusion... I wasn't using purified/distilled water. So am I introducing chlorine or whatever else is in my tap water to the cotton. Then also what will exposing the cotton to 212 degree water remove or do that's any more effective than a 150-200 degree coil with juice in it going to do?

I concluded this was too much thought for so little to be concerned with...

 

[ScottP]

I used to boil... Even had a batch disappear. Where's my cotton balls..? "Oh I threw them away I thought they were used... "

But then I came to the conclusion... I wasn't using purified/distilled water. So am I introducing chlorine or whatever else is in my tap water to the cotton. Then also what will exposing the cotton to 212 degree water remove or do that's any more effective than a 150-200 degree coil with juice in it going to do?

While that makes sense, I do boil using filtered water from my fridge. I do so because as mentioned I use cotton yarn which contains sizing that needs to be boiled out before use. I wouldn't boil a cotton ball.

 

[HawaiiVPR]

I've heard store employees push silica because "its much safer because it wont burn"
I've heard vapers tell me not to use silica because "you end up inhaling fibers"

I just recently was told to switch to ceramic donuts because Kanthal rusts...

So on that note, if I vape burnt cotton, inhale fibers and rust on a regular basis, is it better or worse than smoking cigarettes on a regular basis?

Bottom line, Vaping is risk reduction, not risk elimination.

 

[Nu2Dis]

deach, how's the Tower climbing in Illinois these days? Are you doing carrier work? Lots of LTE?

 

[RPadTV]

LOL cotton is not white... seriously? Have you ever been in or driven by a cotton field near harvest time?

I've been by a cotton field once. The cotton I saw was off-white and certainly not the bright white of packaged cotton. Besides, it has already been established by other posters that bleach and hydrogen peroxide are used to color cotton.

Maybe on Planet Awesome it's some other color..?

I live in an area where cotton crops are still grown. Maybe you should venture out a bit...

Maybe you should stop with the childish insults?

DDT is not used used in the US and hasn't been since it was banned in 1972.

Like I said before, traces of DDT have been found in farm soil.

So with that... the vape store employee was offering an opinion. How well supported that opinion was based on factual knowledge... none of us know.

He was not offering an opinion. He was stating things as fact and wasn't offering any support to his statements at all. I do agree that none of us know.

So is your point to all of this that the B&M clerk should not be stating something you believe to be untrue, or is it that you believe cotton to be adverse to your health when being used as a wick for vaping?

Neither. The clerk shouldn't have been stating anything as fact when the longterm results are unknown.

I dunno, but it seems as though you're trying to raise some sort of issue where none currently exists. Most vapers accept that there are unknown risks with vaping but do it anyway because we feel it is a much safer alternative than smoking cigarettes. My take on it is this, if vaping kills me at least I won't stink on the way down.

The issue is that the clerk was viewed as an authority on vaping. I don't know that most vapers accept that there are unknown risks. Some vapers are informed and some aren't. In this particular case, the customer was told that using cotton was risk-free. That's the issue.

The whole "vaping is really dangerous" debate has no place on a pro-vaping forum unless you can provide real proof that vapers can use to make educated decisions. Anything else is just conjecture and histrionics and only muddies the waters.

That inference is all on you. I've never said that "vaping is really dangerous."

As to your original point, perhaps this guy read an article much like the one you're touting as gospel that argues the opposite point that cotton is safer. Without concrete proof such as a published study, the correct answer should be "we really don't know for sure". I'm sure I can obtain some sort of "proof" of any point I'm trying to make with a few clicks of a mouse.

I'm not touting anything as gospel. Again, that's something you're inferring on your own. I believe everyone should learn what they can from as many sources as they can. The issue is the vape store clerk misleading the customer.

Using cotton as wicks may not be entirely safe, but that same can be said for PG, VG, Coloring, flavoring, so what's your point?

The issue is a vape store clerk outright saying something is completely safe when if it is or isn't.

 

[doghair]

I'll put it this way. All I did was kill fish in my aquariums until I quit listening to store clerks and joined a forum.

 

[volume control]

Compared to smoking? You talk about impurities in the cotton, do you realize what us "vapers" vape for? Pleasure and /or self medicating for nerve of anxiety issues. Bottom line, us vapers have found a lifestyle that is without a shadow of a doubt healthier, and more enjoyable than the world of burning tobacco leaves. A large, very large percentage of vapers would be smokers if not for vaping. You are going to make a thread and post about how cotton could be bad for you? I understand the employee not being 100% truthful (and i honestly dont know if it is dangerous and i see no proof at this point).


Also i replied soley because of this comment at this point

"Like I said before, traces of DDT have been found in farm soil."

You mean the place tobacco and all of our food is grown? Youre not making a good point here

 

[RPadTV]

You are going to make a thread and post about how cotton could be bad for you? I understand the employee not being 100% truthful (and i honestly dont know if it is dangerous and i see no proof at this point).

Why not? Some vapers are under the impression that cotton is completely safe and the clerk stated that to a customer.

Also i replied soley because of this comment at this point

"Like I said before, traces of DDT have been found in farm soil."

You mean the place tobacco and all of our food is grown? Youre not making a good point here

Not sure why that isn't a good point. It's why some people choose organic produce and some vapers choose organic cotton.

Anyway, the main issue to me is the clerk giving out bad information. I'm actually amazed that some people are under the impression that I'm anti-cotton or anti-vaping. I stated in the article that I use cotton and obviously I'm a vaper. *shrug*

 

[ScottP]

Not sure why that isn't a good point. It's why some people choose organic produce and some vapers choose organic cotton.

Anyway, the main issue to me is the clerk giving out bad information. I'm actually amazed that some people are under the impression that I'm anti-cotton or anti-vaping. I stated in the article that I use cotton and obviously I'm a vaper. *shrug*

As has already been mentioned, DDT has not been used since the 70's. If it is still being found in the soil, then it is also very likely to be in the same soil used to grow "organic" cotton as well as the soil used to grow food. So saying that organic is safer because they use DDT on it, or there was DDT in the soil it was grown in is not correct. To label something "Organic" does NOT require a soil test. It only requires that the crop be non-genetically altered, and follow strict fertilization and pesticide protocols. I could plow up some land at Chernobyl and follow the organic guidelines and still label my product organic...legally. Although I certainly would NOT vape with any cotton grown there...organic or otherwise.

 

[volume control]

I'm actually amazed that some people are under the impression that I'm anti-cotton or anti-vaping. I stated in the article that I use cotton and obviously I'm a vaper. *shrug*

Maybe its due to all your responses expressing the negatives of cotton. Honestly despite all your complaints and bashing, i have yet to see you actually prove that vaping using a cotton wick has a negative impact in comparison to other wick materials. Beyond that prove without a shadow of a doubt it is bad for you in some form.

 

[RPadTV]

As has already been mentioned, DDT has not been used since the 70's. If it is still being found in the soil, then it is also very likely to be in the same soil used to grow "organic" cotton as well as the soil used to grow food. So saying that organic is safer because they use DDT on it, or there was DDT in the soil it was grown in is not correct. To label something "Organic" does NOT require a soil test. It only requires that the crop be non-genetically altered, and follow strict fertilization and pesticide protocols. I could plow up some land at Chernobyl and follow the organic guidelines and still label my product organic...legally. Although I certainly would NOT vape with any cotton grown there...organic or otherwise.

That would be meaningful if I said organic cotton was safer. I never said anything was safer than anything else.

Maybe its due to all your responses expressing the negatives of cotton. Honestly despite all your complaints and bashing, i have yet to see you actually prove that vaping using a cotton wick has a negative impact in comparison to other wick materials. Beyond that prove without a shadow of a doubt it is bad for you in some form.

I'm not complaining or bashing anything. I never said cotton was safer or more dangerous than any other wicking material. What I did say is that nobody knows at this time. Did you even read the original article? The clerk told a customer that cotton is "totally safe." That's the statement I take umbrage with. It's irresponsible for a worker at a vape shop to tell a customer that any wicking material is "totally safe."

 

[LucentShadow]

Maybe its due to all your responses expressing the negatives of cotton. Honestly despite all your complaints and bashing, i have yet to see you actually prove that vaping using a cotton wick has a negative impact in comparison to other wick materials. Beyond that prove without a shadow of a doubt it is bad for you in some form.

Where are you getting all of these supposed complaints and bashing? I honestly don't understand all of the negativity toward an article that basically said 'don't say something is safe, if you're not sure of that.'

I read the article, and agree with the spirit of it. I don't know anything about the author or that site, so maybe it's odd that I did not come away with any inferred meanings or hidden agendas that some seem to be finding here.

What I have noticed over the years, is that any time someone posts a possible negative about vaping, even if that negative was not the point of the post, and only presumed to be the meaning by a few readers, threads like this result. It makes my head hurt.

 

[RPadTV]

Where are you getting all of these supposed complaints and bashing? I honestly don't understand all of the negativity toward an article that basically said 'don't say something is safe, if you're not sure of that.'

I read the article, and agree with the spirit of it. I don't know anything about the author or that site, so maybe it's odd that I did not come away with any inferred meanings or hidden agendas that some seem to be finding here.

What I have noticed over the years, is that any time someone posts a possible negative about vaping, even if that negative was not the point of the post, and only presumed to be the meaning by a few readers, threads like this result. It makes my head hurt.

May all the deities in the universe bless you.