Hello! Thanks for Warm Welcome! & Response to Bill G.

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Referring to the thread "More Misleading Coverage of Utah HB 170 Defeat," I'd like to thank the various posters there for their warm words about me and about "Brains." When I wrote Brains e-cigs were barely on the horizon, but if I do a re-write someday they'll certainly be included!

As for Bill Godshall's posting stating that, "Michael McFadden is a right to smoke extremist who has slandered and defamed every public health advocate who has ever worked to reduce cigarette smoking." I'd like to ask Mr. Godshall to point out some of my slanders and defamations of Dr. Michael Siegel of TobaccoAnalysis.com or Dr. Elizabeth Whelan of ACSH? Both of them have long and respected histories of working to reduce cigarette smoking, and I have long had excellent relationships and public communications with both of them. I've also developed and maintained quite a cordial relationship with Martin Pion of Missouri GASP despite our deep disagreement on a number of very fundamental issues on his blog. I strongly doubt that he feels I slander and defame him. Can you point out those slanders and defamations Bill? If not, then one might accuse you of slander and defamation yourself you realize....
 
Thanks for the welcome! :)

Yep, as you noticed, I couldn't actually post my response where I wanted to, but since it was bubblin' on top o' me haid I wanted to get it out befored it puffed off in a cloud of vapor. :>

Realistically you probably won't see me as a frequent poster. While I support your battle I've got my hands pretty full on the analog front. I knew the e-cigs would be heavily attacked, but even I have been surprised at how strongly and successfully. The sad thing is that realistically, if they'd been shaped like asthma inhalers and marketed by the US Big Pharma corps they would have been given an instant stamp of approval and the ACS and AHA would probably be pounding on the doors offering their "Cancer Healthy" and "Heart Healthy" seals of approval in return for a mere million dollar "licensing fee."

While I don't usually have time to check all the various forums around the net that I'd like to, I'll be trying to stop back at least sometimes. If there's ever a thread going on about the "risks" of e-cigs or a thread bashing secondary smoke and such things I'll be happy to jump in with what I know if I see it or someone gives me a heads up. You can get a feel for where I'm coming from if you Google "V.Gen5H" and click on "The Health Arguments" there.

Happy vaping!
 
Sassyonemeis, Abraham Lincoln wrote, "Prohibition... goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by making a crime out of things that are not crimes... A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."

I'm not sure what the current flying regulation is for e-cigs, but if you refuse to stop using one on a plane you probably either are or will be guilty of a felony for "interfering with flight" or whatever. Now, think about this: If you're landing in Los Angeles, and you happen to have had two minor felonies for shoplifting or whatever when you were a teenager... Under the "Three Strikeys and You're Out" law would you then be sentenced to Life Without Parole for the crime of using your e-cig?
 
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Sassyonemeis

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I'm not disagreeing. My point is, this country is OUT OF CONTROL. It no longer resembles what the founding fathers had created. Quite to the contrary, it is now what they tried so hard to warn us NOT to create.

Dont get me wrong here, I am a former lover of smoking cigarettes and was none-to-happy about these bans on smoking and being pushed into the freezing world to smoke. I am also VERY aware that smoking does affect on others, and sometimes it can be a very negative one, even life threatening. Do I agree with the bans? Yes and no. Yes in certain places where it just makes sense to not smoke, No to certain places that have indeed suffered irreparable harm due to the bans.

My major complaint is, the government, and pretty much nowadays not even the government but the "agencies", that create new laws and regulations ruling our lives to the tune of micro-management in matters that they have no business being in in the first place. They have already tried regulating fast food, and now they are going to try "controlling" it by banning toys in happy meals. They are already banning certain food items from being used commercially because of fat content, which also is doing irreparable harm to businesses and costing states money and jobs. The matter is not as small as JUST smoking, or JUST fatty foods, it's our governments rule of thumb these days to want to micromanage every dam thing microscopically to the point that they no longer see the big picture of the harms that are being done by doing so.

So yeah, I'm on board with fighting for rights, but we will have no rights to fight for if we dont start at the top and work our way to the bottom in getting the government back to functioning the way IT SHOULD, not the way IT DOES. And until we the people start VOTING for the people who run these "agencies" who regulate us to death, then we truly have no say on what happens because it all happens without our involvement or approval and it's all corrupt... all of it.

BTW... do you think it is also cooincidental that the rate of childhood ear infections has decreased with the reduction of adult smokers? I dont, I think they are related, altho back in the day I used to think my pediatrician was a jerk for suggesting that my smoking had anything to do with my sons ear infections. Smoking affects far more than smoking addicts will ever be willing to freely admit or freely think about. Yes, we have a right to smoke or vape, but be respectful about it.

And no, I would not arise on an airplane and fight for my right to vape as I am not ....... about my vaping nor am I willing to be arrested and/or labeled a terrorist by doing so. If I wanted to vape, I'd simply go to the restroom and hit it a few times and then return to my seat. No fuss no muss and everyone is happy.
 
Fully agreed. The "out of control" point is exactly what I was making with the Lincoln quote. Re ear infections, I'd be inclined to agree, but at the same time the rate of childhood asthma has more than doubled almost in direct proportion to their measured exposure (through cotinine levels) decreasing. If you accept one as reasonable evidence of causality, then you should also accept the other.

Re bathroom vaping: ... one of the greatest obstacles I've had to fight over the years was the dual battle against the "Ostrich Mentality" which would then morph into the "Borg Syndrome" among bar owners. I would warn them about smoking bans and they would simply stick their heads in the sand and say "Mikey, it'll NEVER happen HERE!" And then, three years later when it was happening, they'd suddenly say, "We cannot fight it. It is INEVITABLE! We will be assimilated."

I'd say you're in the Ostrich mode at the moment. Ever hear of "Catch-A-Smoker"? It's designed to catch bathroom cheaters through sensitive detection of changing point heat sources. They haven't bothered upgrading it for e-cigs yet, but I'd suggest not waiting around for the Borg Syndrome to kick in.
 

cookiebun

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Thanks for the welcome! :)
. The sad thing is that realistically, if they'd been shaped like asthma inhalers and marketed by the US Big Pharma corps they would have been given an instant stamp of approval and the ACS and AHA would probably be pounding on the doors offering their "Cancer Healthy" and "Heart Healthy" seals of approval in return for a mere million dollar "licensing fee."



Happy Vaping!

I'd been thinking just that all day myself.
Thanks for the post.
 

Sassyonemeis

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We've already been assimilated. it's just that now we are really starting to NOT like it as they take more and more of our freedoms away, and taxing us more and more, and forcing us to buy certain healthcare or pay a fine, yet not do a thing about the insane prices of gas and medications and food and the necessities of living and providing for ourselves and our families. Refer to my first post....

*edit* and yeah, if some Big Pharm had introduced e-cigs into the US, they would immediately been approved and the whole world singing its praises...
 

CES

optimistic cynic
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We've already been assimilated. it's just that now we are really starting to NOT like it as they take more and more of our freedoms away, and taxing us more and more, and forcing us to buy certain healthcare or pay a fine, yet not do a thing about the insane prices of gas and medications and food and the necessities of living and providing for ourselves and our families. Refer to my first post....

*edit* and yeah, if some Big Pharm had introduced e-cigs into the US, they would immediately been approved and the whole world singing its praises...

and they probably wouldn't contain enough nicotine to be effective, and would costs twice as much as cigs.....
 
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and they probably wouldn't contain enough nicotine to be effective, and would costs twice as much as cigs.....


It absolutely amazes me that Big Pharma companies can pose as the "Good Guys" in all of this when they're taking what is basically about five cents worth (manufacturer's cost) of chicklet chewing gums, add about another five cents worth of nicotine, and then sell the ten cent box for $50.

And then, adding insult to injury it would seem (I've never seen the contract details) that they palsy-walsy with the MSA tax-funded antismoking programs all around the country to sell mass amounts of their products that the state and antismoking agencies can then offer as "free" to smokers who supposedly get them, over and over and over again, as "quit smoking aids" (even though they seem to have a "failure rate" of well over 90%) Of course every time the cycle repeats more millions/billions of dollars gets pumped back into the Pharma companies to sell even more of their 10,000% marked up products which are then paraded again as "free" and costing nobody anything.

It's got to be one of the largest scale industry/government ongoing scams perpetrated on taxpayers in all of history -- and yet I've seen absolutely nothing about this particular issue anywhere in the news. Anyone else?
 

Sassyonemeis

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No I sure havent, and ya know, until we get the government under control, we arent likely to. As it is, the government is in the pocket of big pharm too, and just how screwed up is that?? To add another insult to injury, so is the FDA.

OUT
OF
CONTROL

And only we the people can ever bring it back to right, politicians will never do it.
 

rothenbj

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Michael, excellent thought provoking posts. Nice to see you addressing some of the issues that everyone should be thinking about, smokers, vapers and the general population. The loss of personal freedom has been ongoing for decades and, if not attacked, will lead to further erosion in the coming ones.
 

CES

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It absolutely amazes me that Big Pharma companies can pose as the "Good Guys" in all of this when they're taking what is basically about five cents worth (manufacturer's cost) of chicklet chewing gums, add about another five cents worth of nicotine, and then sell the ten cent box for $50.

And then, adding insult to injury it would seem (I've never seen the contract details) that they palsy-walsy with the MSA tax-funded antismoking programs all around the country to sell mass amounts of their products that the state and antismoking agencies can then offer as "free" to smokers who supposedly get them, over and over and over again, as "quit smoking aids" (even though they seem to have a "failure rate" of well over 90%) Of course every time the cycle repeats more millions/billions of dollars gets pumped back into the Pharma companies to sell even more of their 10,000% marked up products which are then paraded again as "free" and costing nobody anything.

It's got to be one of the largest scale industry/government ongoing scams perpetrated on taxpayers in all of history -- and yet I've seen absolutely nothing about this particular issue anywhere in the news. Anyone else?

Not so much. no. I'm incredibly angry at the nic replacement/reduction schemes and the attendant rip-off, but Chantix and the anti-nicotine vaccine terrify me. The side effects of Chantix are becoming well-known. I've never been able to find documentation/published data about the characterization and specificity of the antibody developed for the vaccine. A couple of animal trials and fast tracking to human clinical trials. If you have a sense about how antibodies work there are lots of potential side effects to this one too, because the less specific the antibodies the more the potential side effects. i realize that's a whole 'nother set of conversations...so

IMO, the words "safe and effective" are twisted by the pay-to-play nature of the FDA. The FDA is responsible for its own funding and one of the main ways to do that is through drug development and approval fees, never mind the inherent conflicts of interest. The pharma companies spend billions on drug development, and do their damnedest to recoup the costs of the successful drugs as well as the failed ones. Real science, basic science and real possibilities for helping people get lost.
 
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