Help me avoid the HR crackdown!

[DC2]

You can't treat one group of "tobacco product" users differently than another, even though the other "tobacco product" users are doing something more dangerous. And, the courts have already defined e-cigs and liquid as a "tobacco product."

Just a quick correction...

The courts have SUGGESTED that the FDA can regulate e-cigs as tobacco products under the FSPTCA.
But there is no such official designation at the federal level at this time.

When we see what the FDA "deeming regulations" have to say, we will know what their intentions are in that respect.

 

[tA71ana]

i guess im lucky i work in an auto shop and there are 3 of us that do it. while we never asked permission none of the upper management seem to care. my immediate boss likes it because im outside less and working in my stall more

I do believe that vaping (as opposed to smoking) has the potential to increase work productivity overall, especially if the employee is allowed to vape in their work space

 

[MJMcMahon]

Thanks all -

I appreciate the points that going outside may be the simplest approach. I hate it when decisions are made in ignorance, however. At the end of the day, I will accept whatever decision is made because pushing the envelope isn't worth my job. The point could be made that the vapor produced is no more harmful and no less annoying than the person that overuses perfume/cologne, or the person who chews tobacco and spits into a cup at their desk. I guess it just depends upon how "sensitive" people feel like being.

 

[Smokachino]

I hate to say it, but the kind of people who complain without knowing the facts just want to be "right" and probably wouldn't believe anything you put in front of them. I sincerely hope your HR department is more sensible.

 

[Myk]

Dude just go outside aint worth your gig.....

Sorry to say but I think you should just go outside and not argue the situation or inflame the situation.

Who said anything about a threatened gig or an inflamed situation?

The OP is asking for help to educate HR so they can make an informed decision. There's no reason to give up the fight before the fight is even declared.
If that's the case you guys should quit vaping because the FDA and the ANTZ have declared that fight.

OP, CASAA has a lot of studies linked Learn About Electronic Cigarettes , and you have the Clean Air study linked here. If they're not open to the fact that second hand vapor is not harmful then there's not much you can do, but there's no reason not to try until you're told no.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Who said anything about a threatened gig or an inflamed situation?

The OP is asking for help to educate HR so they can make an informed decision. There's no reason to give up the fight before the fight is even declared.
If that's the case you guys should quit vaping because the FDA and the ANTZ have declared that fight.

OP, CASAA has a lot of studies linked Learn About Electronic Cigarettes , and you have the Clean Air study linked here. If they're not open to the fact that second hand vapor is not harmful then there's not much you can do, but there's no reason not to try until you're told no.

Thank you for being you, Myk.

 

[AgentAnia]

I agree with Myk. Print out the CASAA material and the Clean Air study and show it to your HR people. I see this as a chance to show them the facts and educate them about vaping, and it wouldn't hurt to pass this info along to your non-vaping colleagues as well. Offering them this info in a spirit of respect and cooperation can't hurt and may help. The decision is up to them, but you'll have made your best effort regardless.

Good luck

 

[donwuan]

Attention seeker, go outside problem solved.

Educate them but respect their space. Not everyone wants to smell xyz juice all day.

 

[MJMcMahon]

Attention seeker, go outside problem solved.

Educate them but respect their space. Not everyone wants to smell xyz juice all day.

Attention seeker? How did you come to that conclusion?

 

[MJMcMahon]

Who said anything about a threatened gig or an inflamed situation?

The OP is asking for help to educate HR so they can make an informed decision. There's no reason to give up the fight before the fight is even declared.
If that's the case you guys should quit vaping because the FDA and the ANTZ have declared that fight.

OP, CASAA has a lot of studies linked Learn About Electronic Cigarettes , and you have the Clean Air study linked here. If they're not open to the fact that second hand vapor is not harmful then there's not much you can do, but there's no reason not to try until you're told no.

Thanks Myk - you and I are on the same wavelength.

 

[MJMcMahon]

I hate to say it, but the kind of people who complain without knowing the facts just want to be "right" and probably wouldn't believe anything you put in front of them. I sincerely hope your HR department is more sensible.

One can always hope...unfortunately, I haven't seen a pandemic of common sense lately though.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Attention seeker? How did you come to that conclusion?

With a 'jump to conclusions mat'.

Standing up for your rights = attention seeking.

Baah.

 

[bikerbeagle]

The OP is asking for help to educate HR so they can make an informed decision. There's no reason to give up the fight before the fight is even declared.

While I would, at heart, like to agree with you ...there are plenty of reason's NOT to fight a battle when you know, beyond any reasonable doubt, you are going to lose ...especially when it involves HR at your workplace. You might be different, but most people I know can't afford to lose their income and livelihood by being an outspoken proponent to an unpopular cause (read "troublemaker"). In today's world, if you seriously think you can't be fired for simply expressing your opinion, you are more naive than even I give you credit for. People like that generally find themselves on the business-end of a pink slip because they took a 12-minute smoke break rather than a 10-minute smoke break (or some other mundane 'technicality').

Human Resources are not interested in making "informed" decisions ...ever; they are not interested in treating everyone equally and fairly ...ever. They are interested in avoiding litigation ...period.

I'm curious if there has EVER been a situation where a debate has actually ensued based on the complaint of another employee and vapers have actually won? I'm betting, if any, they are as rare as sightings of Bigfoot ...

...riding the Loch Ness monster ...

...while vaping on a tank full of Boba's Bounty.

 

[eric1973]

I wonder how well it would be received if someone found a coworkers cologne or perfume to be an offensive odor....

 

[EddardinWinter]

While I would....(snipped for brevity)

Human Resources are not interested in making "informed" decisions ...ever; they are not interested in treating everyone equally and fairly ...ever. They are interested in avoiding litigation ...period.

I'm curious if there has EVER been a situation where a debate has actually ensued based on the complaint of another employee and vapers have actually won? I'm betting, if any, they are as rare as sightings of Bigfoot ...

...riding the Loch Ness monster ...

...while vaping on a tank full of Boba's Bounty.

Fair points, and yes, HR could punish you for speaking up. So if you need this job and replacement is problematic, maybe consider quiet acceptance.

Only the OP can probably judge this well enough to know the risks of fighting it. I have the Principle owner's support at my office. Several of his partners are strongly opposed to it. If the old man retires or is incapacitated, my decision to vape in my office could well cost me my job. Finding another job for me is no issue, but that is certainly not the case for everyone.

So OP, do consider this cautionary advice before entering the fight.

 

[Myk]

While I would, at heart, like to agree with you ...there are plenty of reason's NOT to fight a battle when you know, beyond any reasonable doubt, you are going to lose ...especially when it involves HR at your workplace. You might be different, but most people I know can't afford to lose their income and livelihood by being an outspoken proponent to an unpopular cause (read "troublemaker"). In today's world, if you seriously think you can't be fired for simply expressing your opinion, you are more naive than even I give you credit for. People like that generally find themselves on the business-end of a pink slip because they took a 12-minute smoke break rather than a 10-minute smoke break (or some other mundane 'technicality').

Human Resources are not interested in making "informed" decisions ...ever; they are not interested in treating everyone equally and fairly ...ever. They are interested in avoiding litigation ...period.

I'm curious if there has EVER been a situation where a debate has actually ensued based on the complaint of another employee and vapers have actually won? I'm betting, if any, they are as rare as sightings of Bigfoot ...

...riding the Loch Ness monster ...

...while vaping on a tank full of Boba's Bounty.

Maybe it's because I'm not a cubical worker who can easily be replaced but no, I never thought I'd get fired for voicing an opinion. I even had religion and politics debates with the boss when I was employed by someone else.
If anyone is in the position that they would be fired for speaking out they're more worthless than I give them credit for, and I'm not too impressed with most humans so that would be a pretty big feat.

I had 2 non-smoking/ANTZ bosses allow me to smoke at my bench. I didn't get fired for asking, I was allowed to smoke.
I did consider that when I was laid off and one of those bosses made me an offer I'd be a fool to take that telling him off may burn that bridge, but I was wrong. He's since offered me work a couple times but never on terms I'd work for.

I quit one job and went back for a visit to find out they implemented one of my complaints about their unlawful pay rate. They didn't fire me for complaining and eventually did listen. My complaints didn't help me but they did help others.
If you value yourself so low that you'll put up with crap that is what you're going to get.

I understand the way corporations work. I failed to get a corporate job and my suspicion is I tested too high. The guy who recommended me jumped over the person doing the testing and she didn't want that to happen again.
So does that mean someone should not only fly under the radar when having an opinion but seek to be the perfection of mediocrity so nobody notices them in that aspect too?

 

[DC2]

All I can say is I wouldn't want to work anywhere that would fire me for speaking up.
But I do understand that not everyone has that luxury.

 

[Ref Minor]

I understand the way corporations work. I failed to get a corporate job and my suspicion is I tested too high. The guy who recommended me jumped over the person doing the testing and she didn't want that to happen again.
So does that mean someone should not only fly under the radar when having an opinion but seek to be the perfection of mediocrity so nobody notices them in that aspect too?

I work for a corporation, the mediocrity doesn't happen at the recruitment stage, they try to recruit the best people. The mediocrity is then beaten into the staff over the next few years as you realise how good you are doesn't matter. If you are good at your job they leave you there and promote some .... who schmoozed the boss, then after a while all you are left to look forward to is a generous severance package which doesn't encourage excellence. Plus the fact if you don't like your boss you know they will be moved on after 3 or 4 years so you can just wait them out. The whole ethos of corporations seems designed to grind the spark out of its employees within the first 3 years.

 

[Schmeelybug]

I work for a corporation in their Human Resources department. (Keep in mind I'm a graphic designer who manages the internal brand of the company so I'm not one of *THOSE* HR people). But working in their midst for the past 15 years, I do think I have a bit of insight to the minds of HR people. As people have stated earlier, the bottom line is that HR wants to keep the boat from being rocked and avoid litigation. That being said, another of their main functions is health insurance benefits. One of the really big pushes in HR lately is employee wellness (ie: keeping healthcare costs down). If you can appeal to them based both on scientific facts and studies and then tie that in to the insurance cost savings for them for you now being a non-smoker, I think you'll have a better shot. If you can help them see it as a tobacco harm reduction method in the same vein as chantix or nicorette or whatever smoking cessation programs they support, then you'll make a stronger case.

(At least, that's my plan if our company ever decides to implement a non-vaping policy)

 

[Myk]

I work for a corporation, the mediocrity doesn't happen at the recruitment stage, they try to recruit the best people. The mediocrity is then beaten into the staff over the next few years as you realise how good you are doesn't matter. If you are good at your job they leave you there and promote some .... who schmoozed the boss, then after a while all you are left to look forward to is a generous severance package which doesn't encourage excellence. Plus the fact if you don't like your boss you know they will be moved on after 3 or 4 years so you can just wait them out. The whole ethos of corporations seems designed to grind the spark out of its employees within the first 3 years.

Ahh yes. I got that when I was a dishwasher. I want to be a cook. Can't do that, you're too good of a dishwasher. Then pay me cook wages. Can't do that, you're a dishwasher.
Guess I should've been a bad dishwasher so they would've promoted me.

The schmoozing part didn't enter into it though. That was for the head waitress who was the girlfriend of the boss.