Help Understanding Temp Control

[Araneae]

Hey guys,

I have been vaping for about a year and a half and making my own juice for about half a year, so I'm not too new to it. I currently vape on a Sigelei 100W box mod with a Royal Hunter RDA, and my coil build is a dual coil with 9 wraps on each coil of 22 guage A1 Kanthal around a 7/64 drill bit with it coming out to about .25 ohms vaped at about 70watts.

Now that you know what I vape normally, I have three questions.

First of all, I like the whole cloud aspect of sub ohming but do not want to go below .2 ohms as I don't like the vape super hot. I used to vape on 24 guage Kanthal 6 wraps around a 5/64 bit but someone told me more surface area equals more vapor production, so I dropped to 22 guage and upped the wraps to keep the resistance of the dual coil around the same. I do see a bit more vapor, but not too much to be honest. Do any of you all have an idea on what I could do to get more vapor while staying around .2-.3ish ohms?

For the second question, what's up with the new Temp control boxes? I have no idea how they work and have tried watching videos to figure them out, but I'm still just as confused to be honest. From what I can understand, they make it a lot harder to dry burn your wick, but I don't really see any other added benefits unless I am missing something.

For the last question, have any of you all used Titanium wire for coil building? I hear it works great on temp control devices and is flavorless, and generally all around better than Kanthal. Any opinions on this? The only thing that has me worried about switching over to a Temp control device and Titanium with it is I have no idea where to start to keep my vape close to what I am at now.

If I vape on dual coil where each is 9 wrap 22 guage Kanthal around a 7/64in drill bit which comes out to ~.24 ohms total, and I prefer a bit more vapor production over flavor, where would be a good place to start at with Titanium wire on a Temp control mod? I have seen something in a vid review where the dudes coils were vaped at like 50Joules 300F with 6 wraps of Titanium wire each comes out to .12 ohms, so I'm guessing same temperature and J but more like 8 or 9 wraps to keep the vape similar to what I am used to? Or am I over thinking this?

Sorry for the many questions, bit I hope to get my head wrapped around this soon.

Regards,

Chris

 

[edyle]

if you change from 24 gauge to 22 gauge and build the same ohm coil, the 22 gauge will need more power.

 

[Araneae]

if you change from 24 gauge to 22 gauge and build the same ohm coil, the 22 gauge will need more power.

Yes I know that, I upped the wattage from what I was vaping at before. Thabks for the reply i guess, but your reply did nothing for any of the three questions I asked.

 

[VapingBad]

Temp limiting is awesome IMO, it has made everything else redundant since last Oct. The no dry hit thing is not a problem for most vapers and for me the other benefits are far more important. You can fine tune the flavour with the temperature, you get subtle changes as you change the temp. But this flavour stays consistent and is the largest benefit. The preheat is another great feature, it dumps a much higher wattage to your coil for the first second or until you are 100F under temperature, I have just been trying squonking on a mech and it feels like having to go back to a dial up modem for the internet.

These 2 features are the big gains for me and I notice them missing on other setups stright away, but there are more good things to. Coils and wicks stay cleaner and if you use a wick clogger like me that is a big thing, I have to rewick every 4 ml normally, get to 8 ml with the DNA. Related to the dry hit is that for the first time I feel safe having a steel tank on my Origenny, when it's empties you just get less vapour. The soft limiting on the DNA is also really cool, it notches down the power rather than shutting down when the battery is spent.

Nickel is not harder to build with, just different to kanthal, the micro coil was used to suit the characteristics of kanthal and nichrome, we just go to pre mirco coil build and it's all good.

 

[Mykracosm]

Know that part about vapor production increasing with surface area?

Nickel has super low resistance. Titanium does, too, but not quite on par with nickel. Meaning to get to a set resistance you've got to use a bunch more of it.

Temp control is great at keeping your vapor cool/warm. You can build down to 0.05 ohms on a lot of devices (my sweet spot is 0.075) and it doesn't overtax your battery because the nickel/titanium's resistance rises linearly with temperature. One less thing to worry about.

One of the best parts about it is how much cleaner it keeps your wick. No risk of burning your stuff up once you have it dialed in correctly. Especially using rayon. My wick stays white after easily 30 ml of the darker stuff, which is great because nickel's nonexistent structural integrity makes it easy to ruin when you rewick.

All-in-all I get more vapor and better flavor with just a single nickel coil than any kanthal build I've ever tried. I'd never go back.

 

[VapingBad]

Yep, for me temp limiting is mainly about the flavour. It's not magic or flavour that is impossible to get on other setups just simply finding the sweet spot for your liquid and then getting that delivered consistently.

 

[Araneae]

Know that part about vapor production increasing with surface area?

Nickel has super low resistance. Titanium does, too, but not quite on par with nickel. Meaning to get to a set resistance you've got to use a bunch more of it.

Temp control is great at keeping your vapor cool/warm. You can build down to 0.05 ohms on a lot of devices (my sweet spot is 0.075) and it doesn't overtax your battery because the nickel/titanium's resistance rises linearly with temperature. One less thing to worry about.

One of the best parts about it is how much cleaner it keeps your wick. No risk of burning your stuff up once you have it dialed in correctly. Especially using rayon. My wick stays white after easily 30 ml of the darker stuff, which is great because nickel's nonexistent structural integrity makes it easy to ruin when you rewick.

All-in-all I get more vapor and better flavor with just a single nickel coil than any kanthal build I've ever tried. I'd never go back.

Doesn't the vape get hot going down to .075 ohms, and doesn't it kill your battery being that low? And I would assume it's not as safe either?

 

[Completely Average]

1. The easiest way to increase surface area is by using twisted wire coils. Instead of going to a thicker kanthal wire, twist two thinner wires together. It will drastically increase the amount of surface area while keeping the resistance the same. Look up twisted wire on youtube for videos.

2. Temperature control has several benefits. First is you obviously don't get dry hits. As the wick dries the coil heats up faster so the mod reduces the wattage until you reach the point where the wick is dry and the mod won't fire. The second advantage is that it keeps you from overheating the juice which can result in the creation of formaldehyde and other toxic chemicals. The third is that it gives a more consistent vape by maintaining a single temperature rather than slowly getting hotter and hotter and hotter and hotter. And finally it helps reduce heat-up and cool-down times by using a different type of wire that has far lower resistance.

3. The two main types of wire for temperature control builds are Ni200 Nickel wire and Titanium wire. Both are no-resistance wires where Kanthal is a resistance wire. That means that Nickel and Titanium will tend to be thicker while at the same time have FAR lower resistances. It's rare to see a temperature control coil over 0.25ohms, and that may have 9-12 wraps to get that high. The biggest advantage to Titanium is that it's strong where Nickel wire is very weak. Nickel wire is easy to break or deform, which a lot of people have problems with when building coils. Titanium is stronger which makes it easier to work with.


Another thing a lot of people are doing is making a twisted wire coil using Nickel twisted with Kanthal. That gives them the temperature control aspects of the Nickel or Titanium while having the coil building strength and flexibility of Kanthal. It also gives the added surface area of a twisted wire build without having such low resistance that the coils are too large for the atomizer which is what would happen if you tried to do a twisted wire with just nickel or just titanium.

 

[Araneae]

Know that part about vapor production increasing with surface area?

Nickel has super low resistance. Titanium does, too, but not quite on par with nickel. Meaning to get to a set resistance you've got to use a bunch more of it.

Temp control is great at keeping your vapor cool/warm. You can build down to 0.05 ohms on a lot of devices (my sweet spot is 0.075) and it doesn't overtax your battery because the nickel/titanium's resistance rises linearly with temperature. One less thing to worry about.

One of the best parts about it is how much cleaner it keeps your wick. No risk of burning your stuff up once you have it dialed in correctly. Especially using rayon. My wick stays white after easily 30 ml of the darker stuff, which is great because nickel's nonexistent structural integrity makes it easy to ruin when you rewick.

All-in-all I get more vapor and better flavor with just a single nickel coil than any kanthal build I've ever tried. I'd never go back.

So you would recommend nickel over Titanium I'm getting? And do you do a dual coil build or single coil? I'm more about vapor production than flavor, so I would assume you get more vapor out of a dual coil build.

 

[Araneae]

1. The easiest way to increase surface area is by using twisted wire coils. Instead of going to a thicker kanthal wire, twist two thinner wires together. It will drastically increase the amount of surface area while keeping the resistance the same. Look up twisted wire on youtube for videos.

2. Temperature control has several benefits. First is you obviously don't get dry hits. As the wick dries the coil heats up faster so the mod reduces the wattage until you reach the point where the wick is dry and the mod won't fire. The second advantage is that it keeps you from overheating the juice which can result in the creation of formaldehyde and other toxic chemicals. The third is that it gives a more consistent vape by maintaining a single temperature rather than slowly getting hotter and hotter and hotter and hotter. And finally it helps reduce heat-up and cool-down times by using a different type of wire that has far lower resistance.

3. The two main types of wire for temperature control builds are Ni200 Nickel wire and Titanium wire. Both are no-resistance wires where Kanthal is a resistance wire. That means that Nickel and Titanium will tend to be thicker while at the same time have FAR lower resistances. It's rare to see a temperature control coil over 0.25ohms, and that may have 9-12 wraps to get that high. The biggest advantage to Titanium is that it's strong where Nickel wire is very weak. Nickel wire is easy to break or deform, which a lot of people have problems with when building coils. Titanium is stronger which makes it easier to work with.


Another thing a lot of people are doing is making a twisted wire coil using Nickel twisted with Kanthal. That gives them the temperature control aspects of the Nickel or Titanium will having the coil building strength and flexibility of Kanthal. It also gives the added surface area of a twisted wire build without having such low resistance that the coils are too large for the atomizer which is what would happen if you tried to do a twisted wire with just nickel or just titanium.

So what is your coil build for your temperature control device, nickel or Titanium? And isn't the vape really hot when it is that low on the device?

 

[Completely Average]

Doesn't the vape get hot going down to .075 ohms, and doesn't it kill your battery being that low? And I would assume it's not as safe either?

That's the whole point of TEMPERATURE CONTROL. It doesn't get too hot because you're setting a specific temperature for it to run at. It will dynamically adjust the wattage to maintain the temperature you set. It also doesn't hurt the battery because Nickel and Titanium heat a lot faster so they hit that temperature setting at much lower wattages. DNA40 has a maximum of 40W in temperature control mode. Yihi chips max out at 50W in temperature control. Evic's new chip maxes out at 60W in temperature control, and the Liasimo chip in the Snow Wolf 200W maxes out at 70W in temperature control.

 

[Completely Average]

So what is your coil build for your temperature control device, nickel or Titanium? And isn't the vape really hot when it is that low on the device?

I don't have a temperature control mod yet. That's coming for my birthday in 2 weeks. But I've been studying it and reading all the information I could about them since March.

When I get mine I'll probably be using titanium in my Squape R and the temperature control Ni200 coils in my Freemax Starre.

 

[Araneae]

That's the whole point of TEMPERATURE CONTROL. It doesn't get too hot because you're setting a specific temperature for it to run at. It will dynamically adjust the wattage to maintain the temperature you set. It also doesn't hurt the battery because Nickel and Titanium heat a lot faster so hit that temperature setting at much lower wattages. DNA40 has a maximum of 40W in temperature control mode. Yihi chips max out at 50W in temperature control. Evic's new chip maxes out at 60W in temperature control, and the Liasimo chip in the Snow Wolf 200W maxes out at 70W in temperature control.

I see, it makes more sense now. With price not being an object, what would in your opinion be the best Temp control device I could get? I heard the chips in the snow wolf mods are US made and quite unknown. I want to buy a well built one that will last a long time.

 

[Araneae]

I don't have a temperature control mod yet. That's coming for my birthday in 2 weeks. But I've been studying it and reading all the information I could about them since March.

When I get mine I'll probably be using titanium in my Squape R and the temperature control Ni200 coils in my Freemax Starre.

And if Titanium is easier to work with and not as brittle, how come you will go with Ni200 for the temp control?

 

[footbag]

Here's the way I think of it. Before TC, Wattage controlled the amount of juice burned. That assumes you can constantly wick, and don't care about burnt flavor. Since that's not the way the real world works, turning the wattage up high for max flavor typically ends up burning the juice.

With TC, wattage controls the volume of the vapor. TC prevents the burnt hits and overcooked juice. Burnt hits taste like burning. Burnt juice just tastes muted. So you can set the wattage as high as you want for a big voluminous vape, but the device also cuts back when it gets too dry or hot. So you can actually control the temp and volume of vape separately. The results are great vapor production without any flavor loss.

I just got a TC device, and I'm not going back. The only disadvantage, to me, is that the device must cool before installing a new coil. The coil must be locked to the device and the device and coil have to be cool for that to work.

 

[Karvin72]

Please read up on the Titanium wire before you make a choice, I will not try and sway you one way or another... (Look up Titanium Oxide) but there are potential issues. Also the OP mentioned cloud chasing... while I have had some success with decent clouds on ni200 it is nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE... near as productive as a resistance wire build. I, admittedly, am pretty new to TC builds with ni200 or Ti wire... and maybe it is just a difference in technique. I really like the concept of TC, but some of the juices just don't taste right to me unless they are dense and warm.

 

[footbag]

And if Titanium is easier to work with and not as brittle, how come you will go with Ni200 for the temp control?

Many are using Nickel because it's the first to come out. The devices are made for nickel, and using a metal with a different resistance coefiecient requires you to do some funny stuff with the temp.

This may be a bit of a strong statement, but I don't think the idea or danger of sub-ohming with TC is as relevant.

 

[Araneae]

Please read up on the Titanium wire before you make a choice, I will not try and sway you one way or another... (Look up Titanium Oxide) but there are potential issues. Also the OP mentioned cloud chasing... while I have had some success with decent clouds on ni200 it is nowhere, and I mean NOWHERE... near as productive as a resistance wire build. I, admittedly, am pretty new to TC builds with ni200 or Ti wire... and maybe it is just a difference in technique. I really like the concept of TC, but some of the juices just don't taste right to me unless they are dense and warm.

I make my juices with only about 10% PG from the flavoring, so I'm not too big on flavor being overpowering. This post you made makes me sad. I was really curious about trying a TC device, but now I'm wondering if I should stay with my resistance build on my VW device for the clouds.

 

[VapingBad]

I make my juices with only about 10% PG from the flavoring, so I'm not too big on flavor being overpowering. This post you made makes me sad. I was really curious about trying a TC device, but now I'm wondering if I should stay with my resistance build on my VW device for the clouds.

You just need more coil surface area to get dense, warm is just down to the build, power & atty juice vaporises at a certain temperature and burning it ain't going to make the vapour warmer.

 

[Araneae]

You just need more coil surface area to get dense, warm is just down to the build, power & atty juice vaporises at a certain temperature and burning it ain't going to make the vapour warmer.

Do you vape on a TC device, and if so, may I ask what your build is? And what you would recommend I start out on?