Help w/ Protank2 microcoils+cotton wick

[gentlebreeze]

Hi all,
I've recently tried my hand at building microcoils for my protank 2. Ater 3 attempts at winding and getting shorts, I finally got one to take. However, my build spits juice up into the drip tip (airy draw I guess), there is very low vapor produced. The more I hit it, the less vapor produced. If I let it sit, I get a bit of vapor, but it goes away by the 4th chain hit. It has never tasted burnt. Sometimes there is juice on the mod contact pin, sometimes not.

What I'm using:
1/16" drill bit
Kanthal A-1 28 gauge, wrapped 11 or 12 times for 1.5 oHms.
organic cotton balls, from CVS (bleached with hydrogen peroxide)

I'm using a Vamo V2 18650 at anywhere from 6-15 watts.

I followed RipTripper's youtube on how to make it. I tried with and without the rubber grommet on the stem. I've also tried putting the stem only 1/2 way into place. I leave about 1/4" of wick on either side of the head openings, and tuck them into the protank cup that the head threads into.

I suspect it's the cotton. I have to wind it up really tight in order to get it through the coil, or else it's too limp to thread it through. I've tried a superthick roll of cotton, a medium amount. I've tried just a bit, so it can move side to side easily through the coil. I've gone with and without a over the top wick over the coil. I presoak before putting the stem on. Do I have to fluff up the ends after putting in through the coil? Should I go with a 5/16" bit to wrap, so the coil is bigger and the cotton doesn't have to be wound up so tight to make it through the coil? Maybe I should try organic cotton gauze?

 

[gentlebreeze]

bumpity bump bump.

 

[Enoch777]

Hard to say, but it sounds like a mistake I made when trying my hand at mini and micro coils for the first time. You've got to get those coils wrapped tight together. Once you do it's a world of difference. Copious amounts of vapor and great flavor. I originally started wrapping with the intent that I should make them tight, but not touching (to prevent hotspots). I couldn't have been further from the truth. Those coils put off semi-decent vapor, little or no flavor, and took a while to heat up. Very inefficient.

If your coils look anything like this then you're doing it right and will have to figure out what else might be going on, if not, give it a try... you won't be disappointed!

 

[gentlebreeze]

Thanks for the feedback! Yep, I snugged them on the bit, compressed in tweezers, then hit it for 5 secs. with a torch. What kind of setup is that? Can you do an RBA in a tank? Maybe I can do a microcoil build in something other than the protank 2.

 

[Enoch777]

I don't really even feel the need to torch/compress. I wrap them as they are in the picture by hand for sake of simplicity.

It's a RDA Optimus S, 13 wrap 28GA Kanthal A-1, 1/32th diameter @ 1.5Ω w/ cotton wick. I tossed it out a while back, because I wanted to hit a lower ohm. Currently using nearly identical build, except 9-10 wraps @ 1.3Ω. If you're asking whether or not I can put that coil in a Protank Head, I'm not sure, I haven't tried yet. I do however have a nice mini-coil in one of my Protanks that has been doing very nicely with loads of vapor and improved flavor over the stock heads.

I will say that it took me 3 tries to get this right and not have leaking or burning issues. I feel like the mini coils fit easier though because all the micro coils I've ever built at just too wide to fit inside without shorting against the walls. This is because I only own an APV currently and all my devices need to be above 1.2Ω

Hope that helps.

Dear Moderators: This belongs in RBA Sub-forum

 

[Scarey]

You could also be getting too much cotton in your coil. I''ve found that the Peaches & Cream brand yarn from Walmart to be an excellent wick in general, and really great for protank heads. You lust take 1 piece of tarn for that size of coil (not doubled over, or split up), thread it through the coil, and trim it to size. I like to wrap the tails of the wick around the base of the head, until they're almost touching the other side, and trim them there. It seems to help the wicking, and prevent flooding. I've also noticed that I still get flooding when the tank gets below half full, so keep it topped-off.

 

[Stan d]

I tried rebuilding my protank 2 with micro coils and cotton today and I ended up with a coil that read 1.4 ohms which is what I was aiming for but I couldn't get any draw when the tank was attached to the battery. I hardly put any cotton in the coil and I had no problems with airflow with the tank off the battery. I ended up putting one of my Evod heads that had a stock coil and silica in the protank and it worked fine. I hate silica because I only get a couple drags before it gets burnt.
Please help, I'm new to vaping and I'm getting very frustrated with it after only a couple of months

 

[Blueser]

CVS pharmacy sterile rolled surgical cotton

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

If you tuck the wick into the cup, you're essentially cutting off the airflow coming in through the base or, at the very least, you're going to restrict it. This will build up excess pressure and will lead to leaking or flooding. There's no need to block airflow.

I did the exact same thing when I built my first Protank II micro coil. You don't need any more cotton than a standard wick length. As with all wicks, the juice viscosity is going to determine how fast or slow it wicks into the cotton however, how tight the cotton is will also affect the juice flow as it vaporizes on the coil.

If you twist the cotton too much, you'll end up burning it as it'll be too tight (I did the same), so when you twist it through, make sure you twist it in the opposite direction to unwind it before you prime it with juice and vape.

As for the coil itself, none of the wires should be loose, so if even one isn't touching, you risk a hot spot which is going to end up frying the cotton or causing the coil to heat up too slow. Your voltage/wattage also plays a factor here. Cotton burns 50x faster than silica, so it only takes one dry hit and it's gone. Start low and increase to hit your sweet spot. You can also move up, but once you burn it, there's no going down - you have to replace the cotton and start over.

The cotton should be fluffy, not stiff/solid or rigid. You should also be able to easily pull the cotton from the coil. If you have to tug at it, or if the coil is moving with you when you pull the wick out, it's in there too tight. This is where using a smaller piece of cotton and twisting it through and then untwisting it to allow it to spread out works best.


This is based off my own experience. I use a 1/16" allen wrench to wrap my coils - works the same as a drill bit, I just like having the L shape to hang on to when I'm wrapping. Fits nicely in my hand and I can hold the L plus the lead and wrap super-tight. I've used 28 G and 30G, just depends on how many wraps I want at the time and I've never had issues with cotton. I have however, had issues with the Peaches and Cream yarn as of late. It doesn't like some flavors, so to speak, and leads to burning, so I'm back to cotton balls.

 

[Stan d]

Thanks for the quick response, I was happy to see that you used a 1/16 Allen wrench because that's what I used. I was tucking the cotton in the cup because I thought it would stop it from leaking and I was putting too much cotton in the coil.
It's almost like you were right there watching me make every mistake I could.
I'm going to give it another go tonight and I'll post back my results.
Thanks again

 

[JeremyR]

Your flooding it basically. That's why it's acting like that at least, too much juice in the coil. You need to find a balance. Add seal back, add a small little tuft of cotton as an over wick or just a piece at The Channels ,to slow the juice flow. Set it up soak the cottony and put top cap on the channels should be full but not tight. A tiny gap at the top corners is good actually

 

[Dconnor]

If you tuck the wick into the cup, you're essentially cutting off the airflow coming in through the base or, at the very least, you're going to restrict it. This will build up excess pressure and will lead to leaking or flooding. There's no need to block airflow.

I did the exact same thing when I built my first Protank II micro coil. You don't need any more cotton than a standard wick length. As with all wicks, the juice viscosity is going to determine how fast or slow it wicks into the cotton however, how tight the cotton is will also affect the juice flow as it vaporizes on the coil.

If you twist the cotton too much, you'll end up burning it as it'll be too tight (I did the same), so when you twist it through, make sure you twist it in the opposite direction to unwind it before you prime it with juice and vape.

As for the coil itself, none of the wires should be loose, so if even one isn't touching, you risk a hot spot which is going to end up frying the cotton or causing the coil to heat up too slow. Your voltage/wattage also plays a factor here. Cotton burns 50x faster than silica, so it only takes one dry hit and it's gone. Start low and increase to hit your sweet spot. You can also move up, but once you burn it, there's no going down - you have to replace the cotton and start over.

The cotton should be fluffy, not stiff/solid or rigid. You should also be able to easily pull the cotton from the coil. If you have to tug at it, or if the coil is moving with you when you pull the wick out, it's in there too tight. This is where using a smaller piece of cotton and twisting it through and then untwisting it to allow it to spread out works best.


This is based off my own experience. I use a 1/16" allen wrench to wrap my coils - works the same as a drill bit, I just like having the L shape to hang on to when I'm wrapping. Fits nicely in my hand and I can hold the L plus the lead and wrap super-tight. I've used 28 G and 30G, just depends on how many wraps I want at the time and I've never had issues with cotton. I have however, had issues with the Peaches and Cream yarn as of late. It doesn't like some flavors, so to speak, and leads to burning, so I'm back to cotton balls.

What flavors are you having problems with? I use the cotton balls for my RDA, but use the Peaches & Cream for the Protank coils because it is so easy to get the same amount every time. My taste buds are changing pretty quickly, so I am never sure if it is them or the wick.

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

Thanks for the quick response, I was happy to see that you used a 1/16 Allen wrench because that's what I used. I was tucking the cotton in the cup because I thought it would stop it from leaking and I was putting too much cotton in the coil.
It's almost like you were right there watching me make every mistake I could.
I'm going to give it another go tonight and I'll post back my results.
Thanks again

I've made the same mistakes . Let me know if you run into any other issues and I'll do my best to help out!

What flavors are you having problems with? I use the cotton balls for my RDA, but use the Peaches & Cream for the Protank coils because it is so easy to get the same amount every time. My taste buds are changing pretty quickly, so I am never sure if it is them or the wick.

I run into the same issues with the P&C as I do with silica. The strands don't hold enough liquid for my vaping style and darker/tan liquids (caramels, chocolates, dark creams etc) seem to just burn up (no sugar/sweetener etc - I don't use any of that stuff). The strands are simply too thin to keep a major source of liquid in there on a single piece through a coil and doubling it over doesn't work much better, just as it doesn't really work all that well for silica (for me).

Cotton Balls are actually cheaper in the long run and the same juices that simply wouldn't perform on the P&C, work perfectly on the CB's without any loss in flavor or throat hit unless I just vape the same flavor all day and then I lose TH regardless.

 

[second2none]

Watching this and doing it worked like a charm for me !
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-rebuild-video-kanger-protank-evod-heads.html

 

[IMFire3605]

Well, I've been wrapping coil heads on Protanks and other Kanger BCC tanks for couple months now, gradually getting narrower and tighter, wrapping a semi-micro coil on 3mm silica, to 2.5mm ekowool, all using 32 gauge kanthal. Recently have moved to cotton balls myself, difference between silica/ekowool/xs (xc) 16 wick with cotton, is cotton swells massively when wet, so initially the wick should be threaded to where there is just enough friction from contact with the coil it isn't moved easily, just enough to keep it there, maybe a small nudge from there. Currently I am wrapping 32gauge wire on a #14 threading needle in a semi-nano semi-microcoil configuration, believe a 10 wrap top/9 wrap bottom, gets me about 2.0-2.3 ohm coil, 30 gauge in a Kanger head probably the largest gauge I'd suggest for them, 28 and thicker takes to dang long to heat up, especially on a regulated device like your Vamo, you want that coil to flare up to top temp within half to a second, JMO. So....

1) Piece of 3 to 3 1/2 Kanthal depending what smaller wire you'll be using, 3 for 32, 3 1/3 for 30.
2) Micro-coil 5/64 drill bit which will take some force to seat the coil with inside the wick slot then twisting it out to back it out once the coil is seated and tightened into place, #14 Threading needle or 20 gauge syringe needle tip to wrap on for a nano-coil, wrap the coil as tight as you can on the brace chosen, 10/9 wrap on a #14 like I stated above for my nano/micro-coils with 32awg, 12/11 for a nano-coil on a 20awg needle, 6/5 on the 5/64 drill bit will give a 1.6-1.9ohm coil, 7/6 wrap maybe close to a 1.9-2.2ohm coil. After wrapping, scrunch the coil closer together, leg that you held to wrap with, unwrap, keeping tension on the wire when you do, remove the coil, then, coming in from the bottom between the 2 legs, clamp and hold with a pair of fine tweezer, then use a torch or torch lighter, and heat the coil up to cherry red or bright orange for approximately 10 seconds, grab longest leg, release tension and remove from tweezers once cooled (not glowing). Replace onto your wrapping brace to align everything again, tightening your legs and outer wraps up.
3) Fish the legs of the coil down into the cup, then seat it in, taking note of position and orientation of the legs, one will be top of brace, other bottom, top leg will be folded up at the top, bottom leg will be folded bottom, so tighten the first leg up, this will be your negative leg, then fold her up along the outside of the coil head cup, then hold her in place, fish the unfolded leg through the white insulator, and seat the insulator in, fold the unfolded leg, now your positive leg on the opposite side of the negative leg, trap and hold that one until you seat the center pin. Now we spread out the excess wire, using a needle nose plier, pull each wire snug, holding the center pin and top of the coil cup to hold secure, once both are snug and tight, we can wiggle each until the excess snaps off.
4) Now we align the coil using a pick, or pin, or the tweezers mentioned earlier, once the coil is centered and over the bottom pin air hole, we can gently twist back and forth, slowly removing the bracing instrument until the brace is free, if the coil shifted during the process, just re-align it again. Seat it into a base, can be a T3S base, Evod Base, protank base, what ever, mount the base onto what you will use to read your ohms, I use a dedicated ohm reader, if the ohms aren't fluxuating to much or stable, mount onto a device, I use a mechanical mod for this next step.
5) Test fire the coil is slow pulses, keeping my tweezers in hand, coil should quickly glow and fire up center to outside evenly, if it shifts re-align it back into place, any uneven glowing, fire and hold power a couple seconds, use the tweezers to compress the coil back together, test pulse slowly some more, continuing to repeat this test pulse, fire and hold 2 seconds, compress the coil together until when you fire the coil in a test pulse it should rapidly glow center out, some times I have to re-insert my bracing tool and remove again to re-align the coil even a couple times, and compress the coil using one or final fire and holds compress method.
6) Check the ohms again, final reading might be .2ohms plus or minus, and might increase as the coil ages over use, I can get about a month out of a coil full time use if I only use that head without switching it out, but I like to tinker and rebuild them every wick change, but the coil should stay constant from this point forward.
7) Threading the cotton ball wick. Take your ball, then slowly and gently pull away a small tuft of it, then start rolling and expanding it out to about 2mm to 3mm, or basically just a bit larger in diameter to your coil diameter, but not much we are talking by micro-fractions larger, then wet one end and roll it into a fine, fine taper, thread her through carefully into your coil, twisting her through as well until you begin to see the coil want to shift, there she is, snug enough to stay in place, seat the air chimney down, trim your excess, I angle my trim from bottom of head up to make a "V" shape when looked from the side, then take a pick or pin and carefully fluff up the ends to cover the wick channel holes, try not to shift the wick, place the chimney tube grommet seal back on to the point it is just gripping the top of the coil cup.
8) Going to use the coil, prime the ends of the wick with your desired juice, mount to its base, secure the base into your tank, let sit upright for about 5 minutes.

*Note - first few hits to first 1/4 tank you will have an off or diminished flavor, the cotton even when boiled clean will suffer this, but gradually over the first tank the flavor will build up to peak. You will know the coil and wick are good right off though, you'll hear it in the sizzle, and see it on the vapor output. My first true micro-coils with cotton produced twice the vapor as my silica micro-coil builds which in themselves were producing 1/3 to half more vapor than a stock head, my nano/micro-coils presently I am double vapor output over a stock head, flavor is stupendous once the wick is broken in

 

[mmm...baconfat]

I didn't have any luck with my protank2 until I tried bsd's vertical microcoil (don't have a link) but it's one of the first topics in the modding forum here. It sounds like you have all the tools to make it....I used CVS organic cotton balls and 30 gauge kanthal and it worked for me

 

[Stan d]

I've made the same mistakes . Let me know if you run into any other issues and I'll do my best to help out!



I run into the same issues with the P&C as I do with silica. The strands don't hold enough liquid for my vaping style and darker/tan liquids (caramels, chocolates, dark creams etc) seem to just burn up (no sugar/sweetener etc - I don't use any of that stuff). The strands are simply too thin to keep a major source of liquid in there on a single piece through a coil and doubling it over doesn't work much better, just as it doesn't really work all that well for silica (for me).

Cotton Balls are actually cheaper in the long run and the same juices that simply wouldn't perform on the P&C, work perfectly on the CB's without any loss in flavor or throat hit unless I just vape the same flavor all day and then I lose TH regardless.

I cut down on the cotton and what a difference, thanks for the help.
How do you keep your coil centered perfectly while you put the insulator back in and the pin? Mine ends up all over the place, I think I wasted about 3' of wire because I kept destroying the coil trying to push it around after the head was together

 

[Sthur]

I have made micro coils for my pt2 with 1/16 bit, 30 gauge, and cotton boiled for 10 min. I found if you flip the plastic grommet upside down it works perfect. Great vapor. I am at 1.8 ohms, and run at 3.8v for 8 watts on my evic. I am only 1 month into rebuilds and know the growing pains.

 

[Stan d]

I have made micro coils for my pt2 with 1/16 bit, 30 gauge, and cotton boiled for 10 min. I found if you flip the plastic grommet upside down it works perfect. Great vapor. I am at 1.8 ohms, and run at 3.8v for 8 watts on my evic. I am only 1 month into rebuilds and know the growing pains.

I'm at 1.4 set at 3.6. How do you know the watts? Is it something I have to set? I'm using zmax, I've only been vaping a couple months now and I'm 1 week into rebuilds

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

I cut down on the cotton and what a difference, thanks for the help.
How do you keep your coil centered perfectly while you put the insulator back in and the pin? Mine ends up all over the place, I think I wasted about 3' of wire because I kept destroying the coil trying to push it around after the head was together

The 1/16" allen key fits into the tank slits perfectly, so I keep it through the coil during the rebuild. Once the leads are down the center, I bend one of them off and over the edge and install the grommet on the one that's straight. Once the grommet is in, I bend the other over the grommet. Once the center pin is in, I twist the leads until they "snap" off.

Only once the entire head is rebuilt do I remove the allen key, slowly. I say slowly as I wrap mine *super* tight, so there's actually some friction when I pull the key out; not much, but resistance is there.

Leaving the key in while doing the rebuild keeps the coil in place, as does bending the leads as you install each piece.