Herzog now estimates mods/e-liquid sales up to $1.5 Billion, cigalike sales down to $1 Billion in US this year

[DC2]

Apparently they are not too concerned about big tobacco trying to corner the market by manipulating the government, otherwise they wouldn't have invested so much time and money in developing their own proprietary refillable system... so does that mean we have less to worry about? Perhaps they know something we don't?

They may be planning to head down the pharmaceutical road in the future...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ma-researcher-preparation-fda-e-cig-regs.html
Pinney Associates, Inc. to Consult for NJOY, Inc., to Promote Public Health - PinneyAssociates – Pharmaceutical Risk Management, Consumer Health, and Biologics
Is a Glaxo acquisition of NJOY in the works? | Anti-THR Lies and related topics
Pharma to Enter eCig Fray?

In the meantime they can take advantage of selling these products in an unregulated tobacco market.

 

[pamdis]

The owners and execs of njoy knew that sales and market share of their cigalike products have declined every month since November 2013, and they wanted to stay in business at least another three years (when FDA's premarket approval for e-cig products would be required if/when deeming reg is given final approval).

It would be helpful if someone found and posted NJOY's comments to the FDA (as my searches on FDA's website haven't found anything, although it appears that FDA's searching system isn't working properly).

Regulations.gov

 

[pamdis]

They may be planning to head down the pharmaceutical road in the future...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ma-researcher-preparation-fda-e-cig-regs.html
Pinney Associates, Inc. to Consult for NJOY, Inc., to Promote Public Health - PinneyAssociates – Pharmaceutical Risk Management, Consumer Health, and Biologics
Is a Glaxo acquisition of NJOY in the works? | Anti-THR Lies and related topics
Pharma to Enter eCig Fray?

In the meantime they can take advantage of selling these products in an unregulated tobacco market.

Pinney Associates also submitted a comment:
Regulations.gov

 

[DrMA]

On a cursory look, the NJOY comment isn't as bad as I expected, but the Pinney one is ridiculous. The graph they peddle is atrocious, arbitrary, and misleading.

Thanks for finding those, pamdis.

 

[Nate760]

On a cursory look, the NJOY comment isn't as bad as I expected, but the Pinney one is ridiculous.

They didn't even make it through five sentences without delivering a whopper worthy of the "can't believe they typed that with a straight face" file:

"The proposed rule, at a strategic and regulatory policy level, sets a positive tone and direction that we believe holds the promise to minimize, and eventually to eliminate, the harm caused by the use of tobacco products within our lifetimes."

And yeah, that graph looks like something straight out of a 6th grader's science project.

 

[readeuler]

On a cursory look, the NJOY comment isn't as bad as I expected, but the Pinney one is ridiculous. The graph they peddle is atrocious, arbitrary, and misleading.

Thanks for finding those, pamdis.

You mean this? No, all sorts of smart people who understand graphs and science totally put breaks in the coordinate axes when there are no numbers around; duh!

Also, I just noticed: Nicorette is the origin! Presumably, the nicotine product by which all others should be judged (the gold standard; and the reason it flies of the shelves).

That would mean that it has zero "user experience", so they openly admit that nobody enjoys it whatsoever. The appeal is zero (so you hate it, and your friends think you're a tool when they want gum and that's all you have). It also apparently has zero toxicity and is perfectly harmless.

It would be funnier, if it weren't so sad that somebody was paid good money to create this garbage...

 

[Nate760]

I had no idea there was a difference between "unflavored combustible tobacco" and unflavored, less-addictive combustible tobacco."

The more I look at that graph, the more I can't believe it's actually for real. If it was a parody of a hackneyed, nonsensical ANTZ visual aid, it would be brilliant.

 

[dragonpuff]

You mean this? No, all sorts of smart people who understand graphs and science totally put breaks in the coordinate axes when there are no numbers around; duh!

Also, I just noticed: Nicorette is the origin! Presumably, the nicotine product by which all others should be judged (the gold standard; and the reason it flies of the shelves).

That would mean that it has zero "user experience", so they openly admit that nobody enjoys it whatsoever. The appeal is zero (so you hate it, and your friends think you're a tool when they want gum and that's all you have). It also apparently has zero toxicity and is perfectly harmless.

It would be funnier, if it weren't so sad that somebody was paid good money to create this garbage...

This is a terrible, terrible graph... but it does paint e-cigs in an extremely positive light, once you figure out how to read it anyway

 

[Nate760]

Returning to a previous subthread, my free NJoy tank kit came yesterday. Engineering-wise, it's very mass-market oriented (atty and chamber glued together, coil not meant to be accessible; the tank/mouthpiece is essentially a single unit that you replace in its entirety each time you use up a coil). Wick is high-quality and well-designed. It's obviously meant to displace eGo-C-type clearos, which it will, because it's simpler to use and generally performs better. Battery only has one voltage mode (good battery aside from that though, and light), that and the lack of user serviceability are the biggest drawbacks, but for uninitiated PV users, they probably won't notice or care. If the coils last a month each, I would unreservedly say this is a great product. If they only last a week, not so much.

Tried two liquid flavors so far. The tobacco is good, tastes just like an NJoy if you're into that. The blood orange is oh my god this might be the best liquid I've ever tasted. I'm not even kidding.

 

[StarreLabelle]

Returning to a previous subthread, my free NJoy tank kit came yesterday. Engineering-wise, it's very mass-market oriented (atty and chamber glued together, coil not meant to be accessible; the tank/mouthpiece is essentially a single unit that you replace in its entirety each time you use up a coil). Wick is high-quality and well-designed. It's obviously meant to displace eGo-C-type clearos, which it will, because it's simpler to use and generally performs better. Battery only has one voltage mode (good battery aside from that though, and light), that and the lack of user serviceability are the biggest drawbacks, but for uninitiated PV users, they probably won't notice or care. If the coils last a month each, I would unreservedly say this is a great product. If they only last a week, not so much.

Tried two liquid flavors so far. The tobacco is good, tastes just like an NJoy if you're into that. The blood orange is oh my god this might be the best liquid I've ever tasted. I'm not even kidding.

NJoy must have changed their tobacco formula then, because it's probably the worst tasting disposable on the market. After buying several disposables for me and my husband, we couldn't vape them. It was like vaping stale, old ashtray cigarettes. Our son introduced us to eliquid and Vision Spinners, almost 2 years ago. If he hadn't, we'd still be smoking analogs.
It's not something I'll ever forget about Njoy!
You didn't mention their prices on the starter kit~I'm sure it's pricey.

 

[Nate760]

You didn't mention their prices on the starter kit~I'm sure it's pricey.

I got the thing for free, so I wasn't really reviewing it for cost effectiveness. But looking at their website, the prices are commensurate with the class of product they're competing against, if not a little less.

 

[WorksForMe]

Returning to a previous subthread, my free NJoy tank kit came yesterday. Engineering-wise, it's very mass-market oriented (atty and chamber glued together, coil not meant to be accessible; the tank/mouthpiece is essentially a single unit that you replace in its entirety each time you use up a coil). Wick is high-quality and well-designed. It's obviously meant to displace eGo-C-type clearos, which it will, because it's simpler to use and generally performs better. Battery only has one voltage mode (good battery aside from that though, and light), that and the lack of user serviceability are the biggest drawbacks, but for uninitiated PV users, they probably won't notice or care. If the coils last a month each, I would unreservedly say this is a great product. If they only last a week, not so much.

Tried two liquid flavors so far. The tobacco is good, tastes just like an NJoy if you're into that. The blood orange is oh my god this might be the best liquid I've ever tasted. I'm not even kidding.

Are the batteries 510/Ego threaded?

 

[Nate760]

Are the batteries 510/Ego threaded?

Yes. I should've mentioned that before; thanks for the reminder.

 

[WorksForMe]

Yes. I should've mentioned that before; thanks for the reminder.

It looks like a basic 650 Ego battery and a non-replaceable head CE4 clearo. It's not something I'd really want since there are much better things available, but....if it were the only tank system to survive FDA scrutiny, I could live with it.

 

[Nate760]

It looks like a basic 650 Ego battery and a non-replaceable head CE4 clearo. It's not something I'd really want since there are much better things available, but....if it were the only tank system to survive FDA scrutiny, I could live with it.

The kit they sent me had 650 and 1000 batteries, which have the same profile and dimensions and their eGo counterparts, but weigh considerably less and generally perform better (aside from being limited to a single voltage mode, like I said before), six extra tank assemblies (this is why I'm kind of dubious about how long the coils are going to last), USB/car/wall chargers, and seven 10ml bottles of liquid (it only comes in 10 or 15mg nicotine, which is kind of a bummer, but the 15mg is surprisingly bold for that low a level; it couldn't pass for 24, but I could be fooled into thinking it was 18).

 

[Kent C]

The kit they sent me had 650 and 1000 batteries, which have the same profile and dimensions and their eGo counterparts, but weigh considerably less and generally perform better (aside from being limited to a single voltage mode, like I said before), six extra tank assemblies (this is why I'm kind of dubious about how long the coils are going to last), USB/car/wall chargers, and seven 10ml bottles of liquid (it only comes in 10 or 15mg nicotine, which is kind of a bummer, but the 15mg is surprisingly bold for that low a level; it couldn't pass for 24, but I could be fooled into thinking it was 18).

Nate, you said "atty and chamber glued together, coil not meant to be accessible"... have you tried to refill? I've seen videos on it which takes it all apart - much more than simply unscrewing and filling - but wonder what your take is on that?

 

[Nate760]

Nate, you said "atty and chamber glued together, coil not meant to be accessible"... have you tried to refill? I've seen videos on it which takes it all apart - much more than simply unscrewing and filling - but wonder what your take is on that?

My impression is that no disassembly (except taking the mouthpiece off to refill) can be accomplished without removing glued, non-threaded parts. Obviously, when the first one wears out I'll take it apart by whatever means necessary and see what the insides look like.

 

[Kent C]

My impression is that no disassembly (except taking the mouthpiece off to refill) can be accomplished without removing glued, non-threaded parts. Obviously, when the first one wears out I'll take it apart by whatever means necessary and see what the insides look like.

Oh, so unlike the Vuse, as I understand anyway, the Njoy can be refilled through the mouthpiece area? Hmmm...

 

[Nate760]

Oh, so unlike the Vuse, as I understand anyway, the Njoy can be refilled through the mouthpiece area? Hmmm...

The Vuse can be refilled in the same manner as any carto-style cigalike, the only difference is you have to do it before the "I am empty and must be thrown away now" sensor gets activated and permanently disables it.

 

[readeuler]

The Vuse can be refilled in the same manner as any carto-style cigalike, the only difference is you have to do it before the "I am empty and must be thrown away now" sensor gets activated and permanently disables it.

That's funny! With all that talk of their super advanced microprocessing whosits, I assumed it would literally time how long a particular cartridge had been used (in-use time, not just sitting around idle).

Good to know! Camel's been absolutely bombarding me with cigarette coupons since quitting smoking. The other day they sent one for a Vuze and refills, I've considered redeeming them for fun (and to let them know I'm interested in vaping. I know they keep data on who's buying what, and they should know to which industry they've lost a formerly faithful customer).