high ohm single coils

[Ryedan]

I'm just thinking of how many wraps it would take to get 3.5 - 4 ohms with 28g wire. Yeow. It would look like a slinky.

LOL, yes, it would look like a slinky

In the end it's all about the watts. Nothing else matters. Your battery doesn't care how many or few ohms your coil has. It doesn't know that.

The more watts you run, never mind the ohms, the less time the battery will vape for you.

 

[powerband]

Just a thought ive been having lately and I cant find an answer for the life of me.

Everyone talks about sub ohming and going lower and lower on the ohms. Not my cup of tea. Yes i can wrap the coils that low i just have no desire to do so. But what about higher ohm vaping. Instead of dual coils running at 1.5 ohm on a rda what about wrapping a single coil at like 3.5 or 4 ohm range using28 or 30 ga wire to give more surface area than a standard single coil at 1.5 ohm or even 2 ohm? Any advantage or disadvantage to running say a 3.5 ohm micro or nano coil? Any dangers to be aware of?

Why not just wrap two 4 ohm coils and run them in parallel, you wind up with a 2 ohm heater and twice the surface area...

 

[edyle]

LOL, yes, it would look like a slinky

In the end it's all about the watts. Nothing else matters. Your battery doesn't care how many or few ohms your coil has. It doesn't know that.

The more watts you run, never mind the ohms, the less time the battery will vape for you.

Yes, the more watts you run, never mind the ohms, the less time the battery will vape.

Ohms do make a difference though.
The lower ohm coils perform less efficiently;
A coil with 10 times the resistance as the internal resistance of the battery will burn 90% of the power output of the battery.
A coil with the same resistance as the internal resistance of the battery will burn only half the power output of the battery, the other half being lost as heat inside the battery.

 

[AndriaD]

Actually I have to make a correction.

The higher ohm coils give you more efficiency in the use of power, so
For the same watts
the higher ohm coil should vaporize more liquid than the lower ohm coil.
hence a longer battery life.

Sounds like that would also provide a greater throat hit, with more liquid being vaporized. I'm liking this high-ohm coil business better and better!

Andria

 

[PuffPuffersons]

I started vaping with 1.5ohm heads. Didnt take too long for me to get a mech and go subohm after all the fanfare and kerfuffle surrounding subohming.

I was totally disappointed.

Out of curiousity I went in the other direction and wrapped myself a 3.1ohm microcoil, and havent looked back since.

For me, its just a superior vape in every imaginable way.


Thinking about experimenting with superohm quad coils, havent managed to work up enough motivation though, just yet.

 

[slappy3139]

Well with a quadcoil to get 3ohm resistance, you're going to need 4 12 ohm coils. I dont see how that would fit in any deck I've seen.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

 

[PuffPuffersons]

Not necessarily 3ohms, just on the good side of subbing.

I'm waiting on a spool of 34 gauge, 12 wraps of that has to be good enough for a quad build.

 

[rucni]

i was making 3ohm protank coils and getting good vapor and flavor on my vamo v3 at 10-12 watts. i used 32gauge kanthal wrapped around a 5/64 drill bit, i cant remember how many wraps though. i have also made a 1.5ohm coil using 2 strands of 32ga twisted together then wrapped around 5/64 bit and got the same vapor and flavor as the 3ohm, but i had to increase my watts to between 12 and 14. i still havent found that happy place yet with the kayfun.

 

[edyle]

Not necessarily 3ohms, just on the good side of subbing.

I'm waiting on a spool of 34 gauge, 12 wraps of that has to be good enough for a quad build.

Exactly; using fine gauge wire with quad coils gives you much more surface area than using thick wire.

 

[AndriaD]

So, it would seem that if I want higher-ohm coils for my T3S, then whoever told me that 30ga wire was "right", just wasn't thinking right; they told me "11 or 12 wraps with 30ga" but I gotta say, I really don't think 11 or 12 wraps are going to fit in a T3S head, they're so tiny. Apparently I now need to get 32ga wire, if I want it to fit in the T3S and still get ohms above 2.5.

I'm really tired of buying stuff that turns out to be wrong.

Andria

 

[edyle]

So, it would seem that if I want higher-ohm coils for my T3S, then whoever told me that 30ga wire was "right", just wasn't thinking right; they told me "11 or 12 wraps with 30ga" but I gotta say, I really don't think 11 or 12 wraps are going to fit in a T3S head, they're so tiny. Apparently I now need to get 32ga wire, if I want it to fit in the T3S and still get ohms above 2.5.

I'm really tired of buying stuff that turns out to be wrong.

Andria

?????
Maybe you're focusing too much on the 11 or 12 wraps? The number of wraps is not relevant.
If you attempted to wrap the 39ga on a PIN, then you might need something like 12 wraps to get enough resistance (plus a pita to wick), but if you use a 1/16 inch drill bit or even as big as the rod on a qtip or the ink tube of a ballpoint pen, you'll find you only want like 4 wraps!

 

[AndriaD]

?????
Maybe you're focusing too much on the 11 or 12 wraps? The number of wraps is not relevant.
If you attempted to wrap the 39ga on a PIN, then you might need something like 12 wraps to get enough resistance (plus a pita to wick), but if you use a 1/16 inch drill bit or even as big as the rod on a qtip or the ink tube of a ballpoint pen, you'll find you only want like 4 wraps!

Well, there again, I probably bought the wrong thing. They told me a "5/64 drill bit", so that's what we bought, since my husband didn't have any of that size in his various tool bins.

Andria

 

[edyle]

Well, there again, I probably bought the wrong thing. They told me a "5/64 drill bit", so that's what we bought, since my husband didn't have any of that size in his various tool bins.

Andria

Yup 5/64 is just a tiny bigger than 4/64 which is 1/16
That should be fine. Bigger will need less wraps than smaller, for the same ohms.
If you want higher ohm coils you either do bigger wraps or more wraps.
It's really the length of the wire that decides the ohms.

Lets see: 5/64 inch diameter x (Pi = 3) = 15/64 inch - round that off to 1/4 inch per wrap; so that's 4 wraps per inch.


Kanthal A1 Resistance Wire (AWG 24, 26, 28, 30, 32, 33 & 34 - 3 Feet)

Gauge (AWG) Average Wire
Diameter (in.) Feet per Pound Resistance
ohms/ft. @ 68¡F
16 0.0508 159 0.324
26 0.0159 1626 3.31
27 0.0142 2040 4.15
28 0.0126 2609 5.27
29 0.0113 3226 6.55
30 0.01 4142 8.36
32 0.008 6473 13.1
33 0.0071 8217 16.6
34 0.0063 10437 21.1

30 gauge kanthal is supposed to be 8 ohms per foot, so to get 4 ohms you'd need like 6 inches!!!
That's a bit much by the sounds of it to fit inside a protank coil; 30 gauge is good for making a 2 ohm coil for sure.

 

[AndriaD]

Yup 5/64 is just a tiny bigger than 4/64 which is 1/16
That should be fine. Bigger will need less wraps than smaller, for the same ohms.
If you want higher ohm coils you either do bigger wraps or more wraps.
It's really the length of the wire that decides the ohms.

Lets see: 5/64 inch diameter x (Pi = 3) = 15/64 inch - round that off to 1/4 inch per wrap; so that's 4 wraps per inch.


Kanthal A1 Resistance Wire (AWG 24, 26, 28, 30, 32, 33 & 34 - 3 Feet)


30 gauge kanthal is supposed to be 8 ohms per foot, so to get 4 ohms you'd need like 6 inches!!!
That's a bit much by the sounds of it to fit inside a protank coil; 30 gauge is good for making a 2 ohm coil for sure.

Well, I really wanted something between 2.2Ω - 2.4Ω, but, for the T3S, which I'll be using with my vv3, I guess it's not really critical, because of the vw; so, if I had about 8 or 9 wraps of 30ga on the 5/64 bit, what do you estimate would be the resulting Ω of that coil? I know there's probably a way to figure that out with the info you supplied above, but hey, I made 460 on the math part of the SAT, I'm a total ...... in math. I'd really prefer not to have to buy anymore wire, for this particular task.

I'll worry about building whatever coils I end up needing for the Sigelei toppers later, when I actually have the Sigelei and a topper for it; I'm looking at several of the larger-diameter tanks.

Andria

 

[Huckleberried]

Andria, I got 2.5 with 30g on a 5/64 with 10 wraps. Hope that helps you a little. I wrote a bunch down one night when I was bored and coiled about 11 of em. Used 32g and 30g with a 5/64 and a 1/16.

ETA: I'm using a protank and it was a snug fit. I was kinda laughing that it fit.

 

[Ryedan]

Yes, the more watts you run, never mind the ohms, the less time the battery will vape.

Ohms do make a difference though.
The lower ohm coils perform less efficiently;
A coil with 10 times the resistance as the internal resistance of the battery will burn 90% of the power output of the battery.
A coil with the same resistance as the internal resistance of the battery will burn only half the power output of the battery, the other half being lost as heat inside the battery.

That's interesting edyle. I know of Peukert's Law and I think this is the effect you are talking about, but please correct me if I got that wrong.

I've never heard Peukert's Law described the way you have. I think we all understand that quickly discharging a battery will give you less mAh than slowly discharging it. The latest batteries are getting better in this regard, with less loss at higher discharge rates. I don't think internal battery resistance is getting much lower though.

In mechanical mods discharge rate is directly related to coil resistance, but not in regulated mods.

 

[edyle]

Well, I really wanted something between 2.2Ω - 2.4Ω, but, for the T3S, which I'll be using with my vv3, I guess it's not really critical, because of the vw; so, if I had about 8 or 9 wraps of 30ga on the 5/64 bit, what do you estimate would be the resulting Ω of that coil? I know there's probably a way to figure that out with the info you supplied above, but hey, I made 460 on the math part of the SAT, I'm a total ...... in math. I'd really prefer not to have to buy anymore wire, for this particular task.

I'll worry about building whatever coils I end up needing for the Sigelei toppers later, when I actually have the Sigelei and a topper for it; I'm looking at several of the larger-diameter tanks.

Andria

circumference = Pi x diameter
so 1 wrap of 5/64 inch diameter = 3.14 x 5/64 = 0.25 inches
30 guage @ 0.7 ohm per inch gives: 0.7 ohm per inch x 0.25 inch per wrap = 0.18 ohm per wrap

10 wraps should give 1.8 ohm.

8 wraps should give 1.4 ohm.

You'll get an extra 0.1 to 0.4 ohms from the leads going downwards from the wraps themselves to the connection pin at the bottom.

 

[edyle]

That's interesting edyle. I know of Peukert's Law and I think this is the effect you are talking about, but please correct me if I got that wrong.

I've never heard Peukert's Law described the way you have. I think we all understand that quickly discharging a battery will give you less mAh than slowly discharging it. The latest batteries are getting better in this regard, with less loss at higher discharge rates. I don't think internal battery resistance is getting much lower though.

In mechanical mods discharge rate is directly related to coil resistance, but not in regulated mods.

Well that "Peukert's Law" (or Peukert's number apparently) is all about the internal resistance of the battery, yes. It is the internal resistance of the battery that leads to that Peukert's number.

The underlying meaning of the high drain lithium batteries is that they have very low internal resistance, and therefore are delivering high current.

As an example, can you get a 4 volt battery to deliver 100 amp?
Well to do that you would need V=IR R=4/100=0.04 ohms The interal resistance of the battery would have to be 0.04 ohms to do that.

We hear about 30 amp batteries.
Well for a 4 volt battery to deliver 30 amps, the internal resistance would have to be less than: 4/30 = 0.13 ohms.

That's just the inside resistance of the battery itself, not any external load; the load in the two cases above is 0 ohms - ie a short.

 

[AndriaD]

Andria, I got 2.5 with 30g on a 5/64 with 10 wraps. Hope that helps you a little. I wrote a bunch down one night when I was bored and coiled about 11 of em. Used 32g and 30g with a 5/64 and a 1/16.

ETA: I'm using a protank and it was a snug fit. I was kinda laughing that it fit.

Good info; if 10 wraps fit in a protank head, I should be able to manage that in the T3S; or at least 9. But I really do need to get one of those torches so the coils will stay tightly together, it's the only way I'm gonna be able to fit it. So I guess I'm making a microcoil out of sheer lack of space! Amazon has a pretty good price on those little torches, or maybe Harbor Freight; I'm 100% certain I can interest my husband in a trip to Harbor Freight; it's like taking me to a book or computer or gardening store.

Thx
Andria

 

[Huckleberried]

I use a Bic before I wrap it, then once I have it set in the head I pulse it like I would a dry burn and carefully squeeze it with tweezers (no power at this point). I do that a couple times and it's good!

I'd really love to go to Harbor Freight, though. I need one of those helping hands things with the magnifier. I pass one on my way to work every day and have yet to go in.

On a side note - if you go with 9 wraps, that gave me 2.1 with a 5/64 and 30g.