Horrid ny times e-liquid article!

[drummerskey]

Those of lower intelligence is what is going to be the doom of vaping and I agree with p.opus that careless smokers become careless vapers. Then again, ignorant and careless (insert anything you want) creates the same issue.

I think if there is a big catastrophe, it will be with DIY juice or battery/electricity.

I have seen some pretty irresponsible suggestions on the forum in the past few months that I have been here again. Promoting safety should be everyone's main goal here because those who claim "they didn't know" or they "read something on the internet" is surely going to be the excuse given for some major mistake. We should all take the advice we give seriously because it will affect us all.

 

[Oliver]

p.opus,

Whilst you're clearly correct that the quote you've provided is not 'false information', the troubling thing about it is the context. Indeed, I'm sure that anyone who is completely naive to the issues would be completely confused after reading that article.

I mean - how is it possible that a 2-year-old girl can drink a bottle of e-liquid and yet only suffer from vomiting when elsewhere we read that "One tablespoon could kill an adult" ?

The reality is that this article starts with a false premise: that nicotine is a uniquely toxic substance. Nowhere is it mentioned that nicotine is far less toxic than previously thought (do read the paper linked by Stosh).

Although we are told that the 2-year old girl's case is "typical", we are not told whether these children drank e-liquid (or how much they drank) or whether they were exposed in some other way (on the skin, for instance) and the parents were simply concerned and asking for reassurance or information.

But, to your central point - yes, vaping parents (and others around children) need to be responsible. However, not all parents are responsible, and so the exact nature of the danger to children needs to be understood without recourse to scaremongering articles like this.

 

[MorpheusPA]

So.....it took an expert to come to the conclusion that bright colors MAY attract kids.

Exactly. Personally, as an adult, I prefer all my colors in shades of gray, plus white and black if I'm daring that day.

This is why I'm growing a thousand flowering plants in the basement for the gardens, and there's not a single color in there. White, gray, black, all of them.

(Actually, I have a strong lean toward scarlet red, bright yellow, and fire orange with a dash of blue in there to break it up).

 

[EddardinWinter]

I know this much. The Kentucky woman "horror story" about being hospitalized from exposure through the skin is not sourced, so I dig a bit further... My repeated Google searches for this, using keywords (Kentucky, woman, hospitalized, e-cigarette, e-liquid, nicotine, cardiac, spill) in various combinations has come up empty. Except...

It is already being repeated as fact here:

Liquid Nicotine for E-Cigarettes Can be Toxic

Where did this happen? When did this happen? Odd to me. I am calling BS on the NYT.


EDIT: To their journalistic credit, they do cite their source in the (second) article that I linked-to the NYT.

 

[skoony]

i read the article.
it mentioned a 2 year old went to the hospital.
it did not mention that all the rest were just calls.thats all,just calls,no outcomes.
it implied by by this omission that all these calls translated to trips to the
emergency room.
a very small nuance,yes.
but one with a large impact on the non-smoker who reads it.
they are not telling there friends to make sure they use child safety caps.
they are telling all there friends about this article and all those chillin' going
to the hospital.

regards
mike

 

[p.opus]

p.opus,

Whilst you're clearly correct that the quote you've provided is not 'false information', the troubling thing about it is the context. Indeed, I'm sure that anyone who is completely naive to the issues would be completely confused after reading that article.

I mean - how is it possible that a 2-year-old girl can drink a bottle of e-liquid and yet only suffer from vomiting when elsewhere we read that "One tablespoon could kill an adult" ?.

This is what the article says:

The nicotine levels in e-liquids varies. Most range between 1.8 percent and 2.4 percent, concentrations that can cause sickness, but rarely death, in children. But higher concentrations, like 10 percent or even 7.2 percent, are widely available on the Internet. A lethal dose at such levels would take “less than a tablespoon,”

They are saying that e-juice you buy, is not strong enough to cause death, but the "base liquid" you may buy to DIY can.

And quite frankly that part of the DIY hobby does scare me a bit. I have gotten more than one alert on ECF regarding their position on DIY and precautions that need to be taken.

A lot of new vapers come in here and immediately want to learn how to do "advanced stuff". Like sub ohming, DIY, etc. etc.

And while this advice is freely given and should be, I do fear that sometimes people don't think.

The implications of spilling some 1.2% on my bare hands and 10% on my bare hands is different.

We can't prevent anyone from being foolish, but we can do what we can to give them the knowledge in hopes that they will be responsible.

 

[chrisj3982]

It is completely absurd to throw around false information, outdated sources, and other bogus ideas to scare people into looking at us as members of the vaping community as irresponsible, careless individuals. Sure there are some out there that are careless, but that is the overwhelming minority. It's that kind of fear mongering and ideology that is going to get vaping banned all across the country. Punish the majority of careful, educated and responsible vapers because of the few careless ones that leave their eliquid or nic unsecured around unsupervised children. This stuff makes me angry, and I'm in no way discrediting the danger and risk involved in the use of eliquid or the components if you DIY.


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[Stosh]

Perhaps the article's writer should have done more research....

From the :
2012 Annual Report of the American Association of Poison
Control Centers ’ National Poison Data System (NPDS):
https://aapcc.s3.amazonaws.com/pdfs/annual_reports/2012_NPDS_Annual_Report.pdf

Looking at their numbers, about 5% of Tobacco/Nicotine poisonings reported were due to e-cigarettes, or e-liquid. In fact more adults were reported in the e-cig category than <5 children. Of the e-liquid reports 4 were under 5 and 4 were over 20, and the grand total was 12 for the whole country. Only one death reported from

a 29 y/o male was found by EMS to be in cardiopulmonary arrest with a suicide note indicating that he had intravenously injected himself with eLiquid

An increase for 1 to 10 is an increase of 1000% -- the percentage is meaningless.

 

[Trace1r]

I will never understand why some people are out to get ecigs/vaping/e-liquid. The poeple around me are just so glad cigarettes are gone! My doctor was quite happy with me as well. I know plenty of parents who vape. I also know plenty of parents who also own firearms. Both are kept locked up. No problems to report so far.

 

[joeybear]

yellow journalism at it's finest, from a bunch of uneducated idiots. Let's face it, "it's for the childrens' safety" will always be a rallying cry for misinformation to make it's way into the mainstream and as long as one case can be noted, it's appropriate.

 

[dugga]

The NYT is just setting the stage for a "sin tax". 99.9% of the time, it's about the money.


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[joeybear]

Some of my favorite quotes are as powerful and poignant today as they were 70 years ago.

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think."

"All propoganda has to be popular and has to accommodate itself to the comprhension of the least intelligent of those whom it seeks to reach."

"I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few."

"If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed."

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it."

"The victor will never be asked if he told the truth."

These words, spoken by a genius/madman, are truths that the mainstream media and politicos will forever exemplify.

 

[daviedog]

New York Slimes a credible source? Hardly. This is an agenda driven piece to ramp up command & control over an ignorant populace.
Not the good folks at ecf I might add..

 

[EddardinWinter]

A nice response piece:

http://reason.com/blog/2014/03/24/new-york-times-warns-that-drinking-e-cig



Roaring thunderously via Tapatalk...

 

[rollcoil]

A nice response piece:

The New York Times Warns That Drinking E-Cigarette Fluid Could Become a Fatal Fad Among Toddlers - Hit & Run : Reason.com



Roaring thunderously via Tapatalk...

Thanks Reason Mag!

The New York Times Warns That Drinking E-Cigarette Fluid Could Become a Fatal Fad Among Toddlers - Hit & Run : Reason.com

 

[wv2win]

If this article bothers anyone, how many have taken the time to:

Join & Support CASAA?

It is the best way we have to challenge these ignorant articles.

 

[Plumes.91]

My mom just told me they ran a HORRIBLE article in our local newspaper about e-cigarettes. It seems they flip flop. Sometimes they write good articles in support of e-cigarettes, other times they write articles completely against them. Except in the PRO articles, there are always some "concerns" raised. In the ANTI articles, there is no "but they are saving millions of people from cancerous cigarettes" Nope! Never. The anti articles are 100% anti.

 

[Kion]

But higher concentrations, like 10 percent or even 7.2 percent, are widely available on the Internet.

Uhh.... Say it outloud. Did anyone else catch this? xD

 

[mikejeater]

Parents gonna leave their meds laying out too? Ban those! How about loose Drano cap?

My unit: ego 900mah with mini evod 1.8ohm. Vape on!!!

 

[Cutless]

Well, that was cringe-worthy. I noticed the mushrooms are starting to come in, big brother should do something about that, those can kill a toddler realllll quick-like, and they won't even think about eating what they see on pizzas. Then again, I could just keep my lawn mowed and keep them up on a shelf if I happen to collect them. Then, you won't believe this guys, once my (fictious) child is old enough to speak, explain that that particular thing is bad to ingest, no matter how good it smells, and can make them very sick or even be deadly.
Haha, right, silly me. No adult is capable of personal responsibility, which is why we should serve them intoxicating beverages at places that, in many cases, they can only leave by driving. Also, perhaps allowing them to cause others health issues by combusting plant matter in a confined space is a better option, after all, THERE'S DOLLARS TO BE MADE BOYS AND GIRLS. OH, OH, OH, I KNOW! Let's over-diagnose our children with a disorder that urges their doctor to prescribe them addictive, mind-altering chemicals! I'M ON FIRE WITH THESE IDEAS!

How completely asinine can one person be? I'm being lazy with this post, I could keep going and provide peer reviewed studies and anecdotes to corroborate my (our) position. Quite frankly though, a myriad of the citizens of this country are daft, uneducated followers who will believe anything as long as they have to pay to know the information, it lines up with their baseless beliefs, and/or it's delivered to them directly via their nice, soothing idiot-box. Science is garbage, everything we know is by coincidence, and if they have an opinion it's fact, no amount of logic will deter them from being right just because that's how they feel about a subject. They'll never once think that maybe the opposition has some credence to their platform on a subject, and that the nice fellow on their boobtube is being influenced by disinformation, or possibly *gasp* lying to support an agenda (here's looking at you, Fox news).

This has been a rant from a mildly delerious, heavily annoyed guy that still can't sleep.