House of Hybrids featuring the Zenesis PV

[LibertariaNate]

RE: slots...

I may make an ECF compliant version and an "advanced user" version. It will be a pain in the tail to have two versions.

The ECF version will cost in the neighborhood of $75.00 more.

I have figured out a way to prevent the PV from firing with stacked batteries in it and may incorporate that on both the ECF compliant version as well as the non compliant version. I really do want to prevent face explosions and the fact that stacked batteries are not needed on a mesh/coil atty is a point I really want to drive home.

I have no objection to ECF campaigning against stacked batteries... But I don't understand why they have not addressed the dual coil loading issue... Standard atties take these batteries right to the brink of trouble in some cases... The hostile load of a dual coil is a disaster waiting to happen. And my research bears this out.

No argument from me here on the dual coil issue. Never understood the whole "I want MOAR vapor" aspect of PVs/ecigs. When I smoked, I didn't say to myself, "You know, this would be so much more enjoyable if it created more smoke." To each their own, but knowing what I do about dual coils, I'll just avoid them.

On a side note, how would you prevent a mechanical mod from firing with stacked batts? It's an interesting idea. Also, I'm in agreement with bumpi et al. I don't want a Zenesis with slots...

 

[Teach]

LOL...

While I generally agree with Karmachine on the guidelines, there are better ways to voice one's opinion than devolving to "douch baggery". Arguing with a mod and being a about it is the quickest way to have the banhammer come down on your head. I find it hard to believe that Karmachine in all his "genius" didn't realize that...

Well said... some other forums have degenerated to such a level of profanity and derision that even lurking is a waste of time.

 

[rshack]

RE: slots...

I may make an ECF compliant version and an "advanced user" version. It will be a pain in the tail to have two versions.

The ECF version will cost in the neighborhood of $75.00 more.

I have figured out a way to prevent the PV from firing with stacked batteries in it and may incorporate that on both the ECF compliant version as well as the non compliant version. I really do want to prevent face explosions and the fact that stacked batteries are not needed on a mesh/coil atty is a point I really want to drive home.

I have no objection to ECF campaigning against stacked batteries... But I don't understand why they have not addressed the dual coil loading issue... Standard atties take these batteries right to the brink of trouble in some cases... The hostile load of a dual coil is a disaster waiting to happen. And my research bears this out.

Well, if those guys get their way, you'll have to do a whole lot more than that. They're making a case for standards which would blacklist any and all mechanical mods.

What they're doing is IMHO kinda scary. And I'm a guy who strongly believes in responsible gov't, appropriate regulation, and stout standards. I heartily approve of their original concern re: some vendors selling dangerous stuff, and I agree that some PV users are stupid, irresponsible and thus accidentally self-destructive. But they just don't know when to stop.

There's a few folks over there who have status and who are doing the "we have a responsibility to save people from themselves" routine, to the point where they are proposing standards designed around the stupid irresponsible folks at the cost of reasonable choice for everybody else. One guy went as far as to say that standards to prevent things that have never happened should be adopted, on the grounds that just because something has never happened yet, that doesn't mean it won't happen some day.

There are statements being made about the responsibilities of engineers to ensure things are safe, etc. This is true, but it's being twisted into something else. In one of my careers I was active in professional societies, and I know something about engineering standards and how they are established. And what they are doing is an empty shell of that kind of process. Instead, they are talking about doing pseudo-legislation by fiat. If society adopted their point of view, we would either not have cars or would be driving around in 7-ton safety tanks like some of DC's '80's safety radicals were proposing. It's really kind of scary, especially since it's loaded with claims of the moral high ground. They start off with some perfectly valid concerns, but then just don't know when to stop. Again, I believe in regulation and I believe in appropriate standards, but what's going on over there reflects an attitude that I find quite scary.

 

[stealfdawg]

Ok so for stupidity sake lets define dual coil on a genisis cause I've seen some bad things ...

 

[Zen~]

No argument from me here on the dual coil issue. Never understood the whole "I want MOAR vapor" aspect of PVs/ecigs. When I smoked, I didn't say to myself, "You know, this would be so much more enjoyable if it created more smoke." To each their own, but knowing what I do about dual coils, I'll just avoid them.

On a side note, how would you prevent a mechanical mod from firing with stacked batts? It's an interesting idea. Also, I'm in agreement with bumpi et al. I don't want a Zenesis with slots...

It's actually pretty easy... prevent the battery cover from making a ground connection until it is fully threaded into the tube. The stacked batteries are longer than the AW battery, so it won't be able to thread in far enough to work. It will also prevent somebody from putting in a battery that is longer than the AW cells which are conveniently shorter making this possible.

 

[Zen~]

Ok so for stupidity sake lets define dual coil on a genisis cause I've seen some bad things ...

Firing multiple wicks and coils... A lot of ScubaGennies are doing that... and wrapping parallel coils on a single mesh is another version....

I've also seen folks twisting the wire together to lower the resistance and increase the current handling capability, which is an exceptionally bad idea because a single wire when shorted will simply act like a fuse... a twisted wire will act like a short because it handles exponentially higher current.

 

[Zen~]

Well, if those guys get their way, you'll have to do a whole lot more than that. They're making a case for standards which would blacklist any and all mechanical mods.

Since I cant view the thread, If you guys can keep me updated I would appreciate it. Is the Zenesis being mentioned specifically?

 

[lexi60]

Is it even physically possible to stack batteries in the Zenenis?
Just for the fun of it, I tried.. I have no combos that fit.
then the ocd started, I decided to take one for the team.,I tried to get a battery to vent, I only use imr.
I created a short, kept burning until the coils pop. After 6 coils. The mod finally got so hot, it was beyond obvious I should put it down and let it cool.the battery never failed. I fail to see, with common sense. one could not know somethings wrong.
Disclaimer: i'm not a scientist, or a pro at this, i'm in the mechanical/electrical industry. ++this test was preformed inside a sand blasting box ++.
Not even me is that stupid.
Zen, you've built a perfect mod. Built for the best, safest battery.
A user can't mess this up, unless the user knows they are doing something they shouldn't be, kinda like driving intoxicated.....
DO NOT PREFORM THIS TEST IN A UNEXPERIENCED AND UNCONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT!!
Ok. I'll go back into the dark now.

 

[sinnyc]

When I arrived at work this morning, my browser showed that I was on page 838. As I type this after refreshing my browser, I am now on page 803. That means that with Karma's banning we've lost 35 pages of thread and possibly more. That is abysmally screwed up and I'm fairly ...... at ECF. I don't know exactly what happened because THEY DELETED EVERY POST HE WROTE but I'm going to contact the administration of the board and (diplomatically) register my displeasure.

Also, I'm guessing some of the tags are now hosed as well.

- Tim

 

[cd68]

Since I cant view the thread, If you guys can keep me updated I would appreciate it. Is the Zenesis being mentioned specifically?

no it has not been mentioned.

 

[LibertariaNate]

When I arrived at work this morning, my browser showed that I was on page 838. As I type this after refreshing my browser, I am now on page 803. That means that with Karma's banning we've lost 35 pages of thread and possibly more. That is abysmally screwed up and I'm fairly ...... at ECF. I don't know exactly what happened because THEY DELETED EVERY POST HE WROTE but I'm going to contact the administration of the board and (diplomatically) register my displeasure.

Also, I'm guessing some of the tags are now hosed as well.

- Tim

Good luck. Mods won't discuss another member's banishment. You'll get a whole lot of nothing for your efforts.

 

[sl_rat]

Would there be a good place to link the FAQ so people can easily find it? It's useless if it just gets buried where nobody can see it.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...00-zenesis-hybrid-personal-vaporizer-faq.html

just wanted to tip my hat to you... nicely done! a very good summation of the important Zenesis basics. any newcomer interested in an APV might get flustered perusing through all of our rants. i too will be adding this link to my signature.

kudos and cheers!!!

 

[slumdog]

Oh no, KARMAAAAaaaaaaa, I thought you knew, the only way to prove an ecf mod wrong, was to do it On another forum... Over here they are righter than rain... No matter what the subject.... Well you will be missed, or mist... You decide... So now I guess I gotta go hang at vapor wall... See u guys there....

 

[Mudflap]

... But I don't understand why they have not addressed the dual coil loading issue... Standard atties take these batteries right to the brink of trouble in some cases... The hostile load of a dual coil is a disaster waiting to happen. And my research bears this out.

I have a pretty good notion of why this is so, but I'm not ready for a permanent ECF vacation, so I'll leave it alone.

 

[lorderos33]

Is it even physically possible to stack batteries in the Zenenis?
Just for the fun of it, I tried.. I have no combos that fit.
then the ocd started, I decided to take one for the team.,I tried to get a battery to vent, I only use imr.
I created a short, kept burning until the coils pop. After 6 coils. The mod finally got so hot, it was beyond obvious I should put it down and let it cool.the battery never failed. I fail to see, with common sense. one could not know somethings wrong.
Disclaimer: i'm not a scientist, or a pro at this, i'm in the mechanical/electrical industry. ++this test was preformed inside a sand blasting box ++.
Not even me is that stupid.
Zen, you've built a perfect mod. Built for the best, safest battery.
A user can't mess this up, unless the user knows they are doing something they shouldn't be, kinda like driving intoxicated.....
DO NOT PREFORM THIS TEST IN A UNEXPERIENCED AND UNCONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT!!
Ok. I'll go back into the dark now.

Leave it to lexi to try and blow up his new mod, lol. Good info though, I am not sure I would have been so brave as to offer my new Zenisis up to the battery gods for trial under fire like you did though. You are a brave soul my friend, a very brave soul indeed

 

[JollyRogers]

I have no objection to ECF campaigning against stacked batteries... But I don't understand why they have not addressed the dual coil loading issue... Standard atties take these batteries right to the brink of trouble in some cases... The hostile load of a dual coil is a disaster waiting to happen. And my research bears this out.

Hit the nail on the head with that one.

 

[Mr. White]

The requirement to have a separate insulated negative connection for the circuit, and not allow grounding to the body, would be the end of mechanical mods as we know them now.

 

[sinnyc]

Good luck. Mods won't discuss another member's banishment. You'll get a whole lot of nothing for your efforts.

I understand. I don't plan to ask them why or ask for his reinstatement. Karma can do that himself, if he so chooses. I'm just going to let make a few points. Don't care if I even get a response, it'll just make me feel better.

- Tim

 

[wh01sjongalt]

How long have you been here that you didn't know that?!?!?

No, they do an IP search, its hard to get back on here for the expatriates, that's why there is VF.

The Tor Project browser

Solutions to every problem

 

[Zen~]

I'm more than a little concerned for the position ECF is taking, for a couple of reasons, but I think it's important to have you guys know how I feel about the issue of ECF PV guidelines.

First and foremost, ECF is my partner in business. There is no other way to look at it. I could not have the success with the Zenesis APV if it were not for the forum they have created. It is an extremely and effective marketing tool and in all honesty, they have done exceptionally well by me.

I completely understand that they wish to prevent people from being harmed by PVs, Mods, and eCigs that are potentially dangerous, and I can see their points that in spite of their best efforts to tell people about the dangers that people will go right out and do exactly the thing they warned people not to do.

Education is a good thing, no?

Making people aware that they are going to hurt themselves is a good thing, right?

LiIon batteries are dangerous. Extremely Dangerous. And some are "safer" than others... I expected a LOT of pushback from people when I said these my PVs designed to fit ONLY one specific battery because it is the safest on the market today. And I got a little... Not a lot.

I have spent a fair amount of time promoting safe chemistry batteries and I have seen at least one picture of a Zenesis PV that is being used with a battery I would not have recommended... and to me, it's obvious... you guys may not have noticed, but I know what to look for. So this tells me that while I have been pretty strong about these warnings... some people either don't listen, won't listen or didn't see the posts where I talked about it... but in this case I know they did see it.

That said... We all smoked... we read the warning labels and saw the singing cowboy with no larynx... we smoked anyway.

ECF says, and based on what I have seen right here in this thread, I have no choice but to agree... that all the warnings in the world won't prevent a person from doing whatever they want to do when their own health is concerned... and many of us, if I'm being honest... made some pretty poor choices along the way, and that's how we all came to be here... we decided to make a GOOD choice this time and get off cigarettes. But we made a bad choice first.

My concern is that my marketing partner is going down the path of mandating engineering "requirements" that they believe will result in a safer PV. On the face of things... I see no reason why adding a fuse, large vents and a mechanical shutoff wouldn't result in a safer PV... it certainly shouldn't make it more dangerous... would it?

And we really do want our PV's to be SAFE, don't we?

Let's be honest here... nobody likes being told what to do. We like to believe that we can make good choices when tasked with doing so. But if we're being honest... I'm not so sure we always do make the right choices... or the safest ones... or even the most prudent. Lets face it... some of us, myself included, can be real boneheads at times.

But I can't make a PV that is "safe".

Nobody can.

I can research, and design and bring to market a PV that is "safer"... in fact safer than most... I would make a stand towards outlawing 510 connectors entirely... batteries aside, they are the most dangerous thing in almost PV available today.

But I would never presume to state that ANY PV is safe... it's being used to deliver a well known health risk into your lungs. Nicotine isn't too harmful in and of itself... using it in excess MAY have health risks... so safe is out the window.

And even though an IMR battery has never exploded, and I cannot MAKE one explode I am not so foolish as to say "They cannot explode".

Like I said before, I can't view the thread where the discussion is taking place. But from what I understand they simply want to make a safer PV... Am I wrong?

And believe it or not, I have not even gotten to my point yet!

But here it is...

I am concerned that ECF is in the process of shifting liability AWAY from the PV manufacturer and ON TO themselves.

IF by some chance an ECF APPROVED PV explodes in somebodies face... and that pv didn't have any manufacturing defects... the manufacturer simply steps back... points the finger at ECF and says... "they approved my design".

If that ever happens... I am concerned for the future of my partner.

Very concerned.

But I intend to look at the list of requirements when it's done and consider them design challenges and overcome them. I intend to take them seriously... If they want vents, there will be vents... if they want fuses there will be fuses... if they want a mechanical lockout it will be there.

Even if most people believe they are overkill.

Even if most people think ECF "Shouldn't be involved".

If I don't, and by chance somebody manages to hurt themselves with a PV that I built KNOWING the guidelines exist... I will be absolutely devastated that I didn't do more to protect them from that, and I feel any reasonable manufacturer WOULD be that prudent.

In 1997 I had a near fatal motorcycle accident.

I HATE that New York State REQUIRES me to wear a helmet... I absolutely HATE being told I have no choice...

But on Memorial day, 1997 that helmet saved my life... I spent a little time in Coma land... had a fractured skull, broken pelvis, broken back and had to learn how to walk again... But I was alive.

Do you enjoy your Zenesis PV?

It wouldn't exist without that helmet that I would have NEVER been wearing if I was in a state that didn't require it BY LAW.

The Helmet saved my life... Therefore... The LAW saved my life.

Many helmet manufacturers have been sued when the helmets were proven to NOT meet industry guidelines... it's pretty hard to make that case stick when they DO comply...

So, while I would like to be kept abreast of the situation... ECF is taking on a lot of liability here that they do not have to add to their list of exposures...

In spite of people getting upset about it... I think its safe to say their heart is in the right place. Please do keep me informed, but lets not make it the focus of this thread.