How are clones allowed?

[peterforpats]

1) clones are allowed because people are greedy, and people want to look cool, i ask a similar question? why buy off shores and not support your country? why buy chinese goods when we know quality and materials are not there? why, see answer 1

because I won't spend the money on a provari(as an example) i'm greedy? i see a sigelei zmax telescoping flattop for 1/3 the provari price and it does MORE and they don't nickel and dime me for extensions or end caps and i'm greedy? no, I think not. it makes me choosy about how I spend MY money. and don't wave the flag at me about Chinese imports- I notice all of the American vape stores carry the Chinese goods. why don't they just carry provaris or just American made goods?

 

[Ref Minor]

i am selling only the stuff i could not find, and not know enough to not buy when i first started, gotta love a troll

Exposing hypocrisy is not trolling.

 

[EddardinWinter]

In a capitalist system there would be no government controls and no patents. So it would not be theft. The morality of capitalism is money and profit.

There is a rule of law necessary for proper function of capitalism. The ability to protect expensive innovation (patents) is part of the motivation that makes innovation possible. Without this protection, and the ability of individuals to steal ideas with impunity, people will innovate less.

There can be (and almost always is) government regulation in capitalism. Let's stay on topic, please.

 

[FLExJuice]

You HAVE seen the ones like Hercules, Terminator/Nautilius and likes?
Quality and materials aren't the things these are lacking off, ethics Yes.

So how does ethics play into pricing? They want us to pay what for the original and wait how long? Look at the Russian 91%...looks like it is better than the original and 1/2 the price.

 

[casey8579]

In fact ecigs that use liquid nicotine suspended in PG are a Chinese invention.

A fact people tend to ignore or be totally ignorant of...

[Non-believers could go to Hangsen's homepage at Best Premium Electronic Cigarettes Brand Juice,Liquid Flavors|Hkhangsen.com and meet the man who actually invented our present e-liquids.

Jide Yao

CEO of Hangsen, is referred as “Godfather” of E-liquid by many pioneers in this industry. He created the world’s first PG/VG E-liquid recipe in 2005 and was also the inventor of RY4 flavor, the most popular E-liquid flavor in the world.

Interesting, I wasn't really aware of this. So, if thats the case, we have all these American eliquid manufacturers copying a product originating in China. If as claimed, this is such a moral and ethical issue why don't we see threads bashing the American eliquid manufacturers for "stealing"?

 

[Maggiemw]

Interesting, I wasn't really aware of this. So, if thats the case, we have all these American eliquid manufacturers copying a product originating in China. If as claimed, this is such a moral and ethical issue why don't we see threads bashing the American eliquid manufacturers for "stealing"?

Ah, good question...

Possible answers:

1) People don't know about this interesting factoid.

2) Ethno-geographical-economic centricity. In other words: anything I make on my little bit of the Earth is good, and anything you make on your different little bit of the Earth is a cheap, dangerous, unsafe, unpatriotic, economy-busting, stolen, crappy copy and you're only out to poison me.

3) Recipes are not patentable.

One of the above, a combination of the above, all of the above.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Interesting, I wasn't really aware of this. So, if thats the case, we have all these American eliquid manufacturers copying a product originating in China. If as claimed, this is such a moral and ethical issue why don't we see threads bashing the American eliquid manufacturers for "stealing"?

Because the Chinese did not invent PG solutions. This has been around quite a while since PG is a great solvent for many water insoluble pharmaceuticals.

There is no known copyright or patent on this process. The Chinese got the idea from BP's use of PG for nebulizer treatments, most likely.

 

[Maggiemw]

Because the Chinese did not invent PG solutions. This has been around quite a while since PG is a great solvent for many water insoluble pharmaceuticals.

There is no known copyright or patent on this process. The Chinese got the idea from BP's use of PG for nebulizer treatments, most likely.

Kinda like putting batteries into tubes to keep them together, with springs and stuff to keep a connection going, an on/off button even,and then attaching one end to some sort of device that needs energy...like a flash light or maybe an atomizer...gasp...

All the other bells and whistles, lcd screens, ohms meters, engravings, skins, shapes, and sizes are just variations of the same.

What is the big deal? Flashlight tubes have been around for decades, and our mech mods are just glorified flashlight tubes.

No disrespect intended for mech mod owners, .

 

[Penn]

There is a rule of law necessary for proper function of capitalism. The ability to protect expensive innovation (patents) is part of the motivation that makes innovation possible. Without this protection, and the ability of individuals to steal ideas with impunity, people will innovate less.

There can be (and almost always is) government regulation in capitalism. Let's stay on topic, please.

Actually I think the problem frequently seen when people speak of capitalism as an evil is they don't understand a few things. The word capitalism by itself is strictly an economic term. It is void of BUT DOES NOT PRECLUDE social concerns or how government is included. The all caps is obviously the part many people don't get. The different types of capitalism (ie freemarket capitalism, state capitalism, cronie capitalism) address those concerns. This is the only part I will discuss here since it is on topic (however indirectly).

Of course this doesn't negate but instead reinforces your point Mr. Lion.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Actually I think the problem frequently seen when people speak of capitalism as an evil is they don't understand a few things. The word capitalism by itself is strictly an economic term. It is void of BUT DOES NOT PRECLUDE social concerns or how government is included. The all caps is obviously the part many people don't get. The different types of capitalism (ie freemarket capitalism, state capitalism, cronie capitalism) address those concerns. This is the only part I will discuss here since it is on topic (however indirectly).

Of course this doesn't negate but instead reinforces your point Mr. Lion.

I agree. No offense taken.

 

[casey8579]

Because the Chinese did not invent PG solutions. This has been around quite a while since PG is a great solvent for many water insoluble pharmaceuticals.

There is no known copyright or patent on this process. The Chinese got the idea from BP's use of PG for nebulizer treatments, most likely.

Are there known patents on the mods (don't think copyright applies to mods or eliquid) under discussion? If so, I withdraw my comment. If not, I think its a valid comparison. In both cases common generic items are being combined to produce a commercial product, pg, vg, nic or metal tube, spring, batteries etc.

 

[Maggiemw]

Are there known patents on the mods (don't think copyright applies to mods or eliquid) under discussion? If so, I withdraw my comment. If not, I think its a valid comparison. In both cases common generic items are being combined to produce a commercial product, pg, vg, nic or metal tube, spring, batteries etc.

Ruyan has patents on some of its technology and has actually sued a certain number of US manufacturers, as well as a Chinese company. See Ruyan Patent Litigation as Reason to Consider Patent Protection — Troutman Sanders Tobacco Team

 

[FLExJuice]

You know I'm having a change of heart about cloned mechanical mods like the latest Chi You being sold by Fasttech. I get it's a battery holder but they copied the logo. Should have just kept it with no logo. Then I was researching my next mod, the K100. Kamry has an alert on their site that Fasttech is selling fakes and they have patents for their PVs. But when looking at the K300, it looks like they took the design from a hybrid I saw on 310 vapers. Then there is the quality control and safety issues that concern me. As much as I want to win the war on cigarettes with affordable and in-stock items, we just maybe creating wars within the e-cig community and industry.

 

[Kemosabe]

Doesn't seem to be a problem. The high end mods (most of em) are still constantly sold out. Their sales are not suffering. If anything, a clone will make someone buy the real thing once they get a taste. If not, that person was never going to buy the real thing anyway.

 

[ScottP]

You know I'm having a change of heart about cloned mechanical mods like the latest Chi You being sold by Fasttech. I get it's a battery holder but they copied the logo. Should have just kept it with no logo. Then I was researching my next mod, the K100. Kamry has an alert on their site that Fasttech is selling fakes and they have patents for their PVs. But when looking at the K300, it looks like they took the design from a hybrid I saw on 310 vapers. Then there is the quality control and safety issues that concern me. As much as I want to win the war on cigarettes with affordable and in-stock items, we just maybe creating wars within the e-cig community and industry.

Innokin also claimed that Fasttech was selling clones of their stuff. Then it turned out they said that because Fasttect used a front company to buy Legit Innokin products at wholesale prices, moved them over to the Fasttech warehouse and then sold them below Innokin's MSRP. So just because a manufacturer says FT is selling clones does not mean it is necessarily true. FT is sometimes just breaking the price fixing that is being done by the manufacturers.

That said, FT does indeed also sale clones. Usually though if they use the brand name in the description they are not. So a "Kanger Evod" is real but an "EVOD" is not.

 

[FLExJuice]

With that happening and the amount of products Fasttech is able to sell then everyone wins except for US sellers who have to follow the rules. FT has the customer base to get wholesale in the 5,000 range while little mom and pop get the 10-100 range then add their markup to stay in business. They can't match those FT deals. Online price hunters see they can get free shipping and nearly wholesale pricing is a tempting combination.

 

[Ref Minor]

With that happening and the amount of products Fasttech is able to sell then everyone wins except for US sellers who have to follow the rules. FT has the customer base to get wholesale in the 5,000 range while little mom and pop get the 10-100 range then add their markup to stay in business. They can't match those FT deals. Online price hunters see they can get free shipping and nearly wholesale pricing is a tempting combination.

Many US vendors sell non branded products. Ecigs are just a part of what FT sell, eventually either one of the current online US vendors will decide to swap margin for volume or someone like Amazon will start selling Ecigs and compete on prices.

 

[polpol]

I bet xan gets paid by the hour to argue. Don't even have to win, just drag it out. Sounds like a defense lawyer for corrupt officials

Now what major innovation is it that sets a specific mod apart from the rest? The 510?
Tube or box?
Bottom button or side?
Magnet or spring?

Is it the quality? Coz my tvs has smoother threads than my "original" mod. Hits harder too.

Just wish these clones would stop copying the branding.

tapatalk4beta

 

[Glen Snyder]

Clowns, I hate 'em. Most of 'em are drunks or pervs. Ship 'em off to a desert island I say. OH!, and what's with those little cars? How do they all fit in there???

 

[bluecat]

My Sony TV looks like my Samsung TV which is a different color than my Hitachi but looks similar. Most of these 200 mods all look similar to each other. In a way you could say the high end mods are all cloning each other. What do you do with all those TV's? You watch them. Some pictures may be clearer but in the end they are all a TV.

With that said it takes about 10 grand to get a US patent. Who knows how much time. I forget at the moment. Depending on complex natural of the patent it could go to 20k. The client I am working with now is looking at 10k on his patent (non mod related). This exclude all the technical detail you will have to compile to formal make a request. It is not a here's my mod gimme a patent.

So take X expensive mod. Divide 10,000 patent (on that one particular mod) by 200 bucks. The mod maker would have to make 50 of the mods just to break even on the patent. That excludes any manufacturing costs.

Take a pill. Any pill. Except for color they all look similar.