How hot does an atomizer get|

[freddo]

Hi there!

I have been sifting through posts and the general temp seems around 250-300c can anyone confirm this?

What i am asking in a nutshell is, what is the perfect temperature to vaporize the fluid to its full potential?

Thanks guys

 

[surbitonPete]

Take your pic!

Faint Red 950-1050º F
Dark Red 1150-1250º F
Dark Cherry 1175-1275º F
Cherry Red 1300-1400º F
Bright Cherry 1475-1575º F
Dark Orange 1650-1750º F
Orange 1750-1850º F
Yellow 1800-1900º F
Yellow/white Over 2000º F

 

[freddo]

Thanks for the help pete

Does anyone else have any input on what they have found the best temprature for vaporisation?

 

[Elendil]

Take your pic!

Faint Red 950-1050º F
Dark Red 1150-1250º F
Dark Cherry 1175-1275º F
Cherry Red 1300-1400º F
Bright Cherry 1475-1575º F
Dark Orange 1650-1750º F
Orange 1750-1850º F
Yellow 1800-1900º F
Yellow/white Over 2000º F

8-o8-o

 

[surbitonPete]

Lol sorry about that .....I was only being silly...although I think there must be an ideal temperature for vaping, I actually wonder if it could be achievable, with things like airflow from different peoples draw and the amount of juice hitting the coil it might be too hard to control it....... It's fantastic that some modders understand the electronics needed to make a temperature controlled mod and actually see if it's possible.

 

[kinabaloo]

Lol sorry about that .....I was only being silly...although I think there must be an ideal temperature for vaping, I actually wonder if it could be achievable, with things like airflow from different peoples draw and the amount of juice hitting the coil it might be too hard to control it....... It's fantastic that some modders understand the electronics needed to make a temperature controlled mod and actually see if it's possible.

It's certianly possible - and desirable.

At present the coil will heat up to about 500-800 C when gets dry (depending on the voltage run at). The temp is held down by the juice - the vaporisation absorbs the power; until the juice on the coil runs out and the temp rises sharply, burning the deposit.

No more than 290C is required to vaporize nicotine and VG, although in theory (assuming no fractional distillation) the running temperature can be, and mostly is, much less - about 150C.

 

[surbitonPete]

Ah Glad you joined in there Kinaba.....I know you have been doing a lot of research and work on designing circuits that could do the job.

 

[kinabaloo]

Ah Glad you joined in there Kinaba.....I know you have been doing a lot of research and work on designing circuits that could do the job.

As you know, this is why test results, such as the Health NewZealand one, have to be taken with a pinch of salt - the analysis was done in ideal circumstances - i.e. with the coil at about 150C. But many times a day the coil temperature will go much higher and the deposit does then 'burn'. The deposit always ends up charred and black, even when running on 3.7C.

As a rough guide, comparing the dry 'ash' levels of analogs and vaping, it is reasonable to assume a relative safety of several hundred (assuming a PG base). I'd hazard a guess that it is closer to 100 with a VG base. Still very good but not as perfect as people would like to believe.

But it can be improved considerably by addressing dry residues, temperature control and limited VG. A relative safety factor of 1000 or more is achievable.

 

[SS109]

As a rough guide, comparing the dry 'ash' levels of analogs and vaping, it is reasonable to assume a relative safety of several hundred (assuming a PG base). I'd hazard a guess that it is closer to 100 with a VG base. Still very good but not as perfect as people would like to believe.

But it can be improved considerably by addressing dry residues, temperature control and limited VG. A relative safety factor of 1000 or more is achievable.

Wow, my brain just froze up like a Windows error! Could you please break that down into laymans terms?

Out of your research, what is the ideal base temp (dry) of the heating element for vaping efficiently?

 

[kinabaloo]

Wow, my brain just froze up like a Windows error! Could you please break that down into laymans terms?

Out of your research, what is the ideal base temp (dry) of the heating element for vaping efficiently?

It's all about the relative heat capicties of dry coil and juice laden coil. The power in needs to be sufficient to get the juiced coil to about 150C. This translates to about 3.5v x 1A = 3.5W. The problem with an unsophisticated power supply, as now, is that once the coil begins to dry, the heat capacity diminishes and so the temperature rises; a factor of around 3-4.

It is possible to detect the small increase in resistance of the nichrome to stabilise the coil temp by applying a variable duty cycle with hysteresis supplied by the heat capacity; so heats up just as fast then reasonably rapid switching maintains the temp. This appraoch would be superior to an a constantly varying current circuit though that would be feasible too.

Within a year or so this technology will hopefully be seen in e-cigs.

However, the top priority is to reduce dry residues to an absolute minimum. Second to determine if there is a safe level of VG to avoid significant decomposition (possibly not). Third, temperature control.

But this is technology side. Even more important than these issues is to make sure all labelling, claims and safety caps etc are implemented, industry-wide. Non-spill bottles should be added to the must-haves IMO. There is also potential to improve cart/e-cig design to avoid leakage in use.

 

[SS109]

Thanks. It is still confusing to me but I don't have (obviously) the electrical knowledge you do. I will definately be paying attention to all of your future posts!

 

[kinabaloo]

A complete picture would include the temperature related heat loss though radiance and airflow, though this doesn't change the basic analysis. Except to say that when power is applied without sufficient air-flow (as with insufficient juice flow), over-heating can result.

With manuals in particular, this can occur when puff is started after button pressed or if stopped before button relaesed; it can happen on automatics too.

 

[SS109]

A complete picture would include the temperature related heat loss though radiance and airflow, though this doesn't change the basic analysis. Except to say that when power is applied without sufficient air-flow (as with insufficient juice flow), over-heating can result.

With manuals in particular, this can occur when puff is started after button pressed or if stopped before button relaesed; it can happen on automatics too.

So, when is your model going to hit the market? It sounds like you know more about this stuff than most of the suppliers and/or manufacturers!

 

[kinabaloo]

So, when is your model going to hit the market? It sounds like you know more about this stuff than most of the suppliers and/or manufacturers!

Thinking about it

Especially as I've worked out how to feed juice consistently and in a way that would run from 1 full day to a week without refilling.

 

[SS109]

Thinking about it

Especially as I've worked out how to feed juice consistently and in a way that would run from 1 full day to a week without refilling.

Do it! We need some real quality products to choose from.

 

[kinabaloo]

Do it! We need some real quality products to choose from.

The juice flow is easy to do in prototype form, not easy to make to a high standard by myself because would ideally need a moulded part.

I would also probably include the following features: micro-fan to assist the puff; lip touch activation (with master on-off); dual atomizer.

 

[whistlrr]

I have the exact same question because I have a "Vapir Oxygen" which actually DOES have temperature control on it and nice chamber (just perfectly shaped and sized to stuff a potential very large filler into it) so that it has a very strong possibility of being used as a a nice alternate e-cig style vaporizer -- but I need to know what temperature an e-cig runs at to vaporize the juice -- so that I don't end up either baking the filler or ... I don't know what.

I really have a goal of in advance trying to find as many home grown work arounds as I can

One day 'they' may well ban any of the following:

1. commercial sale nicotine-laced e-juices (I think this the most likely)
2. E cigs (not as likely but if #1 happens will render them useless for most)
3. Snus (related in that its good tobacco, has many uses, including vaping)


What I DON'T think they'll ever ban are:

1. general handheld portable vaporizers (like this Vapir device)
2. Tobacco (just plain old barebones cig and roll your own type)
3. Glycerin (VG) and probably not its PG companion
4. Teabags and all the other filling goodies we can use


So, with this in mind

I'm experimenting and trying in advance testing as if any/all of the aforementioned ban risk items already are banned to see just how I might e-smoke anyway


this involves trying to make completely home-brew e-juices (complete with their own nicotine procured straight off of good old tobacco) and possibly then vaporizing the left over tobacco from extraction processes (because waste not want not) in gadgets that are likely to be around and functional a while (say all the batteries and atomizers and their sellers dry up in the event of E-mageddon, when there are no more e-cig devies and parts to be bought to replace yours and you've wore them all out, then what will you do?)

At this point in time I think should E-mageddon come I'll be packing tea-bag fillers of completely homebrew e-juice into a Vapir (and having my nice soaked leftover tobacco to vape besides so that my device actually gets used in two ways/two vaping functions)

but in order to see if that's true I very first need to know what temperature to set my Vapir in order to have a good tea-bag VG filler homebrew e-juice puff

 

[Vapo]

Yeah, it'd be hard to pack all the circuitry and switches and such to have regulated temperature in a device the size of a cigarette

Digital vaporizers with temperature control have been around for quite some time, however, though of course they weren't ever really meant to be used with nicotine. Here's an example;

gotvape.com/store/vapir_air_one3_vaporizer.php

from a site I know to be reputable from previous experience. For in-home use you can also get tabletop vaporizers which such as the vaporbrothers box. W/ these units you could simply put in your juice, you could soak it in a filler and put it in (dunno what the chamber for the handheld unit is, but for the tabletop units it's usually a glass bulb in which a nice pool of nicotine liquid could sit comfortably) or you could even just acquire some untreated tobacco and place it in then set the temp just high enough to evaporate the nicotine but not high enough for any of the tars or for actual combustion.

These would make a lot of sense for at-home use. You simply plug it into the wall, set the temp and load the bulb, then grab the hookah pipe whenever you want a hit of nicotine. No batteries and a very durable one-time purchase with the option of extended warranties so that if it does break they'll replace it.

For on-the go use, though, I dunno how you're going to pack the functionality of temp-control into a cigarette sized package. Sure you can get these handhelds that will work and do all you need but the problem is appearance. You're not doing anything illegal of course, but any cop or just nosy ........ who walks by is going to automatically assume you're smoking cannabis as that is what vaporizers are primarily used for and they're going to give you a lot of trouble. Might even take you down to the station while they "test" the liquid or even find something they CAN write a ticket on you for once they realize that your vaporizer is perfectly legal. For on-the go I think the lesser performance of the cig-styles is more than a fair tradeoff for not having your face ground into concrete by some ...... donut eating lardo cop.

 

[breno]

It's all about the relative heat capicties of dry coil and juice laden coil. The power in needs to be sufficient to get the juiced coil to about 150C. This translates to about 3.5v x 1A = 3.5W. The problem with an unsophisticated power supply, as now, is that once the coil begins to dry, the heat capacity diminishes and so the temperature rises; a factor of around 3-4.

It is possible to detect the small increase in resistance of the nichrome to stabilise the coil temp by applying a variable duty cycle with hysteresis supplied by the heat capacity; so heats up just as fast then reasonably rapid switching maintains the temp. This appraoch would be superior to an a constantly varying current circuit though that would be feasible too.

Within a year or so this technology will hopefully be seen in e-cigs.

However, the top priority is to reduce dry residues to an absolute minimum. Second to determine if there is a safe level of VG to avoid significant decomposition (possibly not). Third, temperature control.

But this is technology side. Even more important than these issues is to make sure all labelling, claims and safety caps etc are implemented, industry-wide. Non-spill bottles should be added to the must-haves IMO. There is also potential to improve cart/e-cig design to avoid leakage in use.

Wow, my brain just froze up like a Windows error! Could you please break that down into laymans terms?

" a variable duty cycle with hysteresis supplied by the heat capacity"