How is sub-ohm vaping dangerous?

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WattWick

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As for sub-ohm vaping, I don't feel any less safe vaping my 0.7 ohm builds than I do with an Ego (which I personally know a person who had one get hot enough that they had to toss out of a moving car). I've been doing this a long time, I've read a lot, I test everything, if something we to get hot I'd know to stop. Its for advanced users, plain and simple.
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I feel a lot safer with my IMR cells, decent charger and 0.8ohm coils than I ever did with my egos and god-knows-what-quality charger. That's one of the reasons I moved on from ego batteries in the first place. Not knowing what kind of batteries they were and all I could find out about the chargers was that they had an output of 420mah and was made in China. I have no problems with products made in China. It's the lack of information that worry me.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; ego batteries and their chargers will do more harm for public opinion on vaping than any sub-ohm coil ever will. If not for anything else; the number of users and willingness to go to the media in case of an accident.
 
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dr g

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i had to upload it myself. hunted it down and downloaded it when A123 was crashing to make sure i still had it. I figured it would be something that should be on permanent display here to settle, once and for all, the safety discussions.

If a battery can not pass that test, it should NEVER be used in the bogus hard switched mods i have been seeing!

and which batteries commonly used in those mods "pass that test"?

welp, i know i'm going to take some heat from both sides for saying this...

while i disagree with dr g's approach, i agree completely with the substance of his statements (quick disclaimer - i am an engineer, so i apologize in advance if this gets too heavy on the technical side...):



first, sub-ohm vaping isn't inherently any more dangerous than anything else, lack of knowledge is what's dangerous. for example, i use 0.5 ohm coils on my dripper. on a fully-charged battery at 4.2 volts, i'm running 8.4 amps, so i only use batteries rated for 10 amps continuous discharge or higher. i'm well within the spec, but regardless, i test fire the battery before vaping, and check regularly to make sure it's not getting hot.

i like to use 18350's for my genny. the 18350's are rated at 6 amps continuous, so i wrap my coils at .8 ohms or higher, which gives me a max draw of 5.25 amps at full charge. again, battery is fine, no heating, etc.

of course, both scenarios are assuming that the only load is the atty and coil. the mod will add a little bit more resistance, as will the battery itself, both of which will lower the current draw, but i prefer to leave those out of the calculation as a factor of safety.



next, regarding vv mods, let's assume you're vaping a 3 ohm carto at 6 volts on your provari. this would yield an even 12 watts of power. your battery doesn't care at what voltage your provari is set, it only knows that it needs to provide 12 watts to your coil (plus a little extra to power the electronics). for a fully charged battery, you will need to pull about 2.9 amps, meaning the circuitry in your provari is acting as a 1.4 ohm load as far as your battery is concerned.

but, what about when your battery is almost dead (3.3v)? in order to put out this same 12 watts, the provari needs to pull 3.6 amps from the battery (this has nothing to do with the 3.5 amp output limit of the circuitry). in order to do this, the circuitry needs to act as a 0.9 ohm coil, so as far as your battery is concerned, you're sub-ohming.

this isn't even the limit - if you have a provari v2, it is guaranteed to be capable of an output of 14.5 watts. in order to achieve this on a battery with 3.3 volts left, you need to pull 4.4 amps, meaning the resistance of the circuitry adjusts to 0.75 ohms. now you're not only vaping at a lower resistance than my genesis, but you're doing it with a much weaker battery (i measure the charge left when i change batteries, and i'm very good about swapping them out when they get down to about 3.6 volts).



last point for the moment is regarding the temperature - does anyone happen to know how a rice cooker works? you basically just throw in rice and water, turn it on, and it somehow knows when to turn off, right? what's actually going on is there's a heater and a thermometer in the bottom, and the heater stays on as long as the thermometer reads around 212°F (the boiling point of water). liquid water can't physically exist at a higher temperature than this (it needs to become steam first), so as long as there's any liquid water in the rice cooker, it keeps the base at around 212°F as well. as soon as all the water has either been absorbed by the rice or boiled off, the temperature jumps, which tells the rice cooker to shut off.

similarly, eliquid can only exist at a certain temperature before it vaporizes, so as long as it's in contact with your coil, it will prevent the coil from heating up very much beyond this point (assuming you're not providing enough power to cause it to combust, which is almost impossible to do on a well-saturated wick without an external heat source, eg, a lighter). obviously, there are other factors that go into it - the outside of the coil, for example, also relies on air and vapor to help it stay cooler - but there just isn't enough room on a 28-32 gauge wire to have a huge temperature gradient.



whew, that was long, hopefully somebody reads it :)

Thank god, someone gets it. It is with much dismay that I note the number of people who eschew knowledge for emotion. It is a sad state indeed if only engineers are capable of this fairly simple level of understanding.
 

st0nedpenguin

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Thank god, someone gets it. It is with much dismay that I note the number of people who eschew knowledge for emotion. It is a sad state indeed if only engineers are capable of this fairly simple level of understanding.

Except it all falls apart when you consider that it's perfectly possible to scorch and/or burn juice.

And coils can dry out.

And combust.
 

zoiDman

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I think you have been watching Too Many Star Trek re-runs.

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10010100 0100111
 

Myk

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Thank god, someone gets it. It is with much dismay that I note the number of people who eschew knowledge for emotion.

It's an equally sad state when someone confuses attacking with conveying the knowledge they claim to have and getting emotional when nobody responds to the attacks with "getting it".
 

Katdarling

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and which batteries commonly used in those mods "pass that test"?



Thank god, someone gets it. It is with much dismay that I note the number of people who eschew knowledge for emotion. It is a sad state indeed if only engineers are capable of this fairly simple level of understanding.


And voila. So a newbie goes into a B & M and gets a sub ohm set up...


By the way, dr g, this "fairly simple level of understanding" may not (believe it or not) be simple to the next person reading your posts.
 
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bnrkwest

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Yes it all depends on a persons expertise and what they have studied and worked with in life. Electricity and chemistry and physics are not something we are all born understanding. Plus the more I learn, the more I realize man does not know .... about much of anything LOL! We don't really understand electricity or water or magnets, it is still a mystery in many aspects. The deeper you dig the more ???? you get for answers. Isn't studying fun :) bnrk

And voila. So a newbie goes into a B & M and gets a sub ohm set up...


By the way, dr g, this "fairly simple level of understanding" may not (believe it or not) be simple to the next person reading your posts.
 

Ubergeek63

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and which batteries commonly used in those mods "pass that test"?



Thank god, someone gets it. It is with much dismay that I note the number of people who eschew knowledge for emotion. It is a sad state indeed if only engineers are capable of this fairly simple level of understanding.

Actually I am an engineer as well and do indeed "get it". That vid was done by A123, a battery MANUFACTURER and not me. Their 26650 cells were rated for 100A continuous discharge.

My reason for making that link was so those who DON'T "get it" might at least RESPECT it (that they may indeed have something potentially dangerous in their hand capable of burning the flesh off their entire face) The puncture test is a standard test listed in ACTUAL cell data sheets so it is not like they need to do the test themselves. If a company will not supply a data sheet with it listed in the safety tests as passing this one it should not be used in hard switched mods period!

As to what cells are used: Do you KNOW that NONE of the new vapors will not buy a hard switch mod and use an old school ICR?

Frankly, I think the video was a perfect answer to the initial question: "How is sub-ohm vaping dangerous?"

Dan
 
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