How many chemicals are really in e-liquid?

[StormFinch]

Plain and simple, you want to know what chemicals are in a particular flavor of juice? Contact the vendor, ask who provides their flavorings, nic base, PG, VG etc., then contact the flavor manufacturer and ask for their Specification and MDS sheets. I know for a fact that at least one flavor supplier provides theirs online, otherwise there are at least five other flavor suppliers currently used in American made e-juice flavors. After that, get the MDS sheets for the rest of the ingredients. Look up chemicals that you don't recognize. Truthfully, it would take someone literally years to do this for each and every juice currently available on the market, and by the time they were done, there would be another crop of juices, juice suppliers, and flavor suppliers, which is why it hasn't been done so far.

I will admit, we probably need to quit comparing ingredients to chemicals, so why not compare ingredients to ingredients? E-juice typically has 4 to 6, while by their own admittance RJR has over 150 including a myriad of different oils and the same 4 basic ingredients that are found in e-juices, they're just burnt rather than vaporized.

 

[kristin]

I'd join CASAA to remain posted on current happenings but I'm pretty sure, like 90% of the people in this thread, they'd be better off having a bunch of yes men/woman join to tell them how perfect everything is.

If you only knew how far off the mark you were with that comment. I literally LOL'd. The day most of our members were telling us "how perfect everything is" will be the day they repeal all of the smoking bans.

We have a member meeting Thursday night. Why don't you come by and see who we are and what we are REALLY all about? CASAA Member Meetings

 

[Anjaffm]

@Jay-dub:

I most certainly appreciate your providing me with the laugh of the day.

a bunch a juvenile finger-pointers to pucker up thier sphincters

Or, as you have done, you can use snide remarks and name calling

This is just so funny
I greatly appreciate your providing such lovely comic relief Thank you very much for the amusement

In addition, it is not for you to say who can participate in a thread in this forum.
Have a nice day

 

[Talyon]

That was me being suspicious of your sincerity. You never accused me of anything. You're response compared to the rest of this thread was almost too good to be true is all...

Suspicious, yes a curious word but fitting to this thread.

 

[Anjaffm]

Suspicious, yes a curious word but fitting to this thread.

You can say that again

 

[Jay-dub]

I don't think there is any approval process specific for inhaled flavorings. Dr. Farsalinos did do some cell culture tests the vapors of a few different brands and flavors of liquids. I can see something like that becoming a goal, but like I said earlier, testing all of the flavors available is a monumental task. Even if you decide on a test, even if you could narrow it down to 'test viability of cell cultures when exposed to x flavor compound' you are still left with loads of unknowns. Was it the right cell culture (what type of cells do you choose for the culture), does this translate into anything meaningful in the human body, if there was a loss of cell viability what was the exact compound that caused it? Testing on animals would be massively more expensive, time consuming, difficult to interpret, etc... Testing on humans is unethical and can not be done. Epidemiology for inhaling flavors would be a big cluster...

IMO, it seems you want to set the bar too high. If you insist on 100% testable safety (which is actually impossible) vaping will fail. In fact, everything would fail. I'm not sure if that is what you have in mind, and I don't want to be putting words in your mouth, but it seems that you are pressing for a standard that is unobtainable (both because 100% safe is a myth, and because the scope of testing required would be impossible).

I expect we will see some testing of flavors in the future, perhaps using the cell viability model that Dr. Farsalinos used. He did find a loss of viability with certain tobacco liquids and cinnamon liquids, but none as large as the loss of viability when cigarette smoke extracts were used, and no attempt to identify the exact compounds that caused the loss of viability (again; expensive, time consuming, difficult). More of that sort of research in the future will be welcome by me. Use of diacetyl in liquids has largely been abandoned now because of the reported cases of popcorn-lung in popcorn factory workers. It's possible that more issues like that will come to light as we learn more. It will take many years.

Based on everything I have read vaping has to be much safer than cigarette smoking. If we can make it even safer, great, as long it doesn't kill vaping or the pleasure of vaping. If vaping were not pleasing, people would not be switching. There has to be a trade off between safety and vaping being a desirable alternative. If we make it, say, 50% safer but nobody wants to switch anymore, that's a fail. My 2 cents...

Though it was like pulling teeth, I feel like I eventually got some honest answers. I'm not setting the bar at understanding everything - but I am trying to prompt us to understand more and not pass on slogans that misrepresent vaping or it's opponents. I do think it's important to be one step ahead of opponents though. I don't see how we'd be able to do that if this is how we treat our own kind. If it's not important to you or anyone else to know as much as possible about vaping from every aspect and angle that's okay. I just don't see why people would take the time to chide me for wanting to understand these aspects, know how to address them, and understand the context of how they should be viewed properly. It seems that a lot of people who don't like ANTZ are awful willing to adapt their vitriol.

 

[DC2]

Plain and simple, you want to know what chemicals are in a particular flavor of juice? Contact the vendor, ask who provides their flavorings, nic base, PG, VG etc., then contact the flavor manufacturer and ask for their Specification and MDS sheets. I know for a fact that at least one flavor supplier provides theirs online, otherwise there are at least five other flavor suppliers currently used in American made e-juice flavors. After that, get the MDS sheets for the rest of the ingredients. Look up chemicals that you don't recognize. Truthfully, it would take someone literally years to do this for each and every juice currently available on the market, and by the time they were done, there would be another crop of juices, juice suppliers, and flavor suppliers, which is why it hasn't been done so far.

I will admit, we probably need to quit comparing ingredients to chemicals, so why not compare ingredients to ingredients? E-juice typically has 4 to 6, while by their own admittance RJR has over 150 including a myriad of different oils and the same 4 basic ingredients that are found in e-juices, they're just burnt rather than vaporized.

This.

.......

 

[DC2]

Though it was like pulling teeth, I feel like I eventually got some honest answers. I'm not setting the bar at understanding everything - but I am trying to prompt us to understand more and not pass on slogans that misrepresent vaping or it's opponents. I do think it's important to be one step ahead of opponents though. I don't see how we'd be able to do that if this is how we treat our own kind. If it's not important to you or anyone else to know as much as possible about vaping from every aspect and angle that's okay. I just don't see why people would take the time to chide me for wanting to understand these aspects, know how to address them, and understand the context of how they should be viewed properly. It seems that a lot of people who don't like ANTZ are awful willing to adapt their vitriol.

This too.

............

 

[DC2]

Or perhaps it would just be easier for me to say, yeah, what Kristin said.
That usually works out really well.

 

[Jay-dub]

Okay, it's going to be a lot more productive if I ignore most posts cuz you guys are mucking it all up with defensive posturing and not-so-subtle accusations of me being some sort of ANTZ activist here to infiltrate and destroy the vape culture from the inside. Neat. I won't tell you how to think so please don't tell me what my intent is.

Doesn't anyone think that whoever is ant-vape and organized would be willing (out of the same zealotry that turned half my fellow vapers into cannibals) to attack vaping from what ever angle possible; including low-blows and accusations of complacency for not being on top of certain issues? Flavoring is a go-to for a lot of these do-gooders that are so convinced of their own righteousness that if they do it then it must be right. I think it'd be comforting to know such things are foreseen and preemptive measures are being taken.

 

[aceswired]

Worth remembering that a liquid that starts with X ingredients could be putting out more. Many chemicals break down and/or change when heated. To say nothing of metals that could be vaporizing in trace amounts.

I think some are trying to oversimplify things because they badly want/need to believe the hobby/habit is perfectly safe. Maybe it is. But it MIGHT not be. That's all some here are saying. That message really shouldn't be so threatening.

Sent from my YP-G1 using Tapatalk 2

 

[retired1]

Since this thread has sunk to nothing more than juvenile insults and arguing, it's now closed. I would highly suggest some of you review the rules before posting again.

I'll even include a link so you can find them.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-forum-rules/51178-forum-rules.html