How many chemicals are really in e-liquid?

[Talyon]

Seems to me u don't or won't accept the science etc given u here, so I say go get yourself a dang scientist and some lab stuff and figure it out.

If your aim is to cause controversy, try outside.

 

[Mr.Mann]

You see the word "may" in the statement you took the time to make bold right? It shows that I was speculating. It's a hypothesis. It MAY be incorrect.

It's a hypothesis based on what exactly? Sure, you added "may," but that doesn't exonerate you from putting it out there that ecigs "may" contain more tobacco alkaloids than a cig (which isn't the case anyway). And anyway, I think you may be referring to TSNAs (tobaccos specific nitrosamines) as opposed to alkaloids (which it, again, isn't the case). That said, the alkaloid nicotine, can be ordered in an amount greater to that in a cig, but that's a conscious choice to order it that way.

 

[Jay-dub]

One day we'll stop comparing vaping to smoking, and let vaping stand up on 2 legs, all by itself.

I don't see why I can't expect this industry to be more open and honest than the industry it's setting itself up to be in direct competition with. I don't want to see vaping get involved in the same manipulation of studies and cover-ups that tobacco got caught up in.

 

[Talyon]

I don't see why I can't expect this industry to be more open and honest than the industry it's setting itself up to be in direct competition with. I don't want to see vaping get involved in the same manipulation of studies and cover-ups that tobacco got caught up in.

LOL. Yeah right.

 

[Jay-dub]

It's a hypothesis based on what exactly? Sure, you added "may," but that doesn't exonerate you from putting it out there that ecigs "may" contain more tobacco alkaloids than a cig (which isn't the case anyway). And anyway, I think you may be referring to TSNAs (tobaccos specific nitrosamines) as opposed to alkaloids (which it, again, isn't the case). That said, the alkaloid nicotine, can be ordered in an amount greater to that in a cig, but that's a conscious choice to order it that way.

You get a lot more than just the alkaloids from the extraction process don't you? I'm just trying exhibit some common sense is all. Take a substance, concentrate it, then dilute it again. You are not going to get the chemical ratios right back to where they were before being extracted, concentrated then diluted again are you? First, wouldn't you have to verify how much of what was extracted. Compare that to the ratios of those chemicals in the object you extracted them from, then figure out how to reconstitute them in a way that remains true to the original product. My honest guess is you get more of some chemicals from extraction than others thereby throwing off the ratio of chemicals in the extract from where they were in the tobacco leaf. That may be a good thing. But either way, I'd like to know more and without stating my opinions and theories I have no idea how people are supposed to know them, let alone take the time to think through them and correct them where needed. I thank you for your help!

 

[wv2win]

Nothing is stopping an industry insider from individually donating so you can't say that certain individuals don't donate for the benefit of the industry they are highly invested in. Like it or not, I'm just as weary of studies done by known anti-vape advocates as studies commissioned by pro-vape organizations. Sorry for my ignorance.

1. I never stated that someone that works in the industry has not donated to CASAA
2. If a vaping supplier did contribute, "unsolicited" to CASAA, that in no way impugns their integrity as an organization
3. You are making unsupported statements and providing no alternatives to your unsupported "fears".
4. There are well recognized anti-smoking experts who have reviewed the studies on vaping and weighted-in positively on the safety of vaping.


Your so-called concerns have been answered well.

 

[Jman8]

When smoking became popular in the 20's, 30,s 40,s and then the explosion of smokers in the 50's, we were all lead to believe it was fine to smoke and even healthy! It wasn't until the 70's when all these smokers started getting cancer and began dying that somebody thought to link it to cigarettes.

*bold emphasis mine

What was that about misrepresenting a product?

 

[Jay-dub]

I feel like I just questioned the bible at church...

 

[Mr.Mann]

I don't see why I can't expect this industry to be more open and honest than the industry it's setting itself up to be in direct competition with. I don't want to see vaping get involved in the same manipulation of studies and cover-ups that tobacco got caught up in.

Jay-dub, with your hypotheses, caveats and peripheral insinuations, I think you may be doing the exact disservice you wish to rail against.

 

[Jay-dub]

I guess all the science is out there and I'm sorry for being a skeptic. I may not understand how the conclusions have been drawn that are drawn, but it's obvious this isn't the place to question. Vaping is awesome and everything I've heard that makes it look good is true, everything I've heard that doesn't make it shine is false. Thanks for your time.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I guess all the science is out there and I'm sorry for being a skeptic. I may not understand how the conclusions have been drawn that are drawn, but it's obvious this isn't the place to question. Vaping is awesome and everything I've heard that makes it look good is true, everything I've heard that doesn't make it shine is false. Thanks for your time.

It's okay to be a skeptic, but is there a study or something that you can show us that you are skeptical of?

 

[wv2win]

I don't see why I can't expect this industry to be more open and honest than the industry it's setting itself up to be in direct competition with. I don't want to see vaping get involved in the same manipulation of studies and cover-ups that tobacco got caught up in.

This is a classic "Straw Man Argument".

1. The tobacco industry was dishonest with their list of ingredients and studies.
2. Ergo, the compounds listed by large eliquid manufacturers, as well as the studies, both industry sponsored and independently done, must also be dishonest.
3. Ergo, the eliquid manufacturing industry is just as dishonest as the tobacco industry
4. Ergo, vaping is possibly just as dangerous as smoking.

Classic ANTZ's "Straw Man" reasoning.

 

[Talyon]

I'd it's a real debate to get to the bottom of this issue u want, like I said go to the Outside part of this forum, just trying to help.

Best of luck, getting your IMHO impossible answer, at this point.

 

[wv2win]

I guess all the science is out there and I'm sorry for being a skeptic. I may not understand how the conclusions have been drawn that are drawn, but it's obvious this isn't the place to question. Vaping is awesome and everything I've heard that makes it look good is true, everything I've heard that doesn't make it shine is false. Thanks for your time.

There is a difference between "intelligent questioning" with supported evidence and concerns and "Straw Man" reasoning that ignores valid evidence that your supposition lacks serious thought or support.

I believe most of us would be the first to raise a red flag IF there were definite evidence that the vaping industry was hiding information or studies were being manipulated. The ANTZ's would be throwing evidence of this nature in our faces, if any existed. They have been trying to find that evidence for 4 years now without success.

 

[Jman8]

In reviewing the science linked in this thread, I'm seeing between 0 and virtually no harm that comes to children (of any age) from second hand vapor. Wonder why some vapers think there is some risk to children via second hand vaper? Anyway, probably off topic, but felt like noting it.

 

[Mr.Mann]

I feel like I just questioned the bible at church...

You basically did. The difference between us and other "believers" is that we walk by sight, not just faith.

 

[Talyon]

In reviewing the science linked in this thread, I'm seeing between 0 and virtually no harm that comes to children (of any age) from second hand vapor. Wonder why some vapers think there is some risk to children via second hand vaper? Anyway, probably off topic, but felt like noting it.

I'll assume because of stigma. This well dissipate with time.

Oops and the Monkey see Monkey do thing.

 

[Jay-dub]

It's okay to be a skeptic, but is there a study or something that you can show us that you are skeptical of?

I've read the methods of extraction of flavors. Specifically, various methods for extracting tobacco. I'm not aware of any studies done on specific flavorings being vaporized then inhaled. But, I'm sure that the extraction process does more than just pull "flavor" from the tobacco leaf etc...

I'm excited about vaping too but I don't want to get caught with my pants down. Seriously, I had a health scare after smoking for half my life and vaping was a gift from the Gods. So, don't think I'm trying to knock it. But, I don't want too get overzealous. The personal benefits to vaping are undeniable.

This is a classic "Straw Man Argument".

1. The tobacco industry was dishonest with their list of ingredients and studies.

My skepticism comes from more than just one for-profit industry being dishonest.

2. Ergo, the compounds listed by large eliquid manufacturers, as well as the studies, both industry sponsored and independently done, must also be dishonest.

My lack of trust doesn't necessarily mean the object of my distrust is actually being dishonest.

3. Ergo, the eliquid manufacturing industry is just as dishonest as the tobacco industry

I don't really know that but I'm not afraid to air skepticism.

4. Ergo, vaping is possibly just as dangerous as smoking.

Please point out anywhere in this entire forum that I've made such a claim.

Classic ANTZ's "Straw Man" reasoning.

I don't know Ant'z.

 

[Jman8]

I'll assume because of stigma. This well dissipate with time.

Like the second hand smoke myths have dissipated over time?

 

[Myk]

My point is there can be 200 chemicals in one ingredient. So, to compare the ingredients of e-liquid to the chemicals in cigarettes is disingenuous. But, it's exactly what's been happening. Let big tobacco mislead people but for vape culture we ought to choose a higher ground.



I don't expect an industry lobby to be completely honest. Sure, they help promote and legally secure vaping but I don't know at what lengths their influence can be used. When CASAA pays for studies the independence of the study and it's result are called into question for me. In the early days of cigarettes "studies" done "independently" (paid for by tobacco lobbies) supposedly showed smoking to be good during pregnancy. Ha! We now know that to be absolute malarkey.

I was going to give you the benefit of doubt until I saw this and your response to someone who corrected this tripe.
Most people would look into something before throwing out accusations like that ... if they were being genuine at least.

There have been some Chinese liquids that listed the chemicals in flavors. People threw a fit going into a panic over each and every chemical. Like I said, the universe is made up of scary sounding chemicals. Get over it or go back to smoking.