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How much does nicotine affect juice flavour?

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by Old Greybeard, Feb 2, 2019.

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  1. Old Greybeard

    Old Greybeard Super Member

    Aug 31, 2018
    Cumbria
    Now that I'm concocting ejuice on a grand scale, I've been pondering the interaction between nicotine and the juice itself. I realize that most commercial juice sold in the UK comes with separate nicotine shots, and this has got me thinking.
    • Is there any benefit or disadvantage of omitting nicotine when testing/trialing recipes?
    • How much of an effect does nicotine play as part of the steeping process? Is it an essential component, and if so, how do commercial producers compensate for not having nicotine in their juice?
    • Would I be sensible in creating recipes without nicotine, and if they are decent enough to vape add the nicotine afterwards?
    It seems pointless adding nicotine if potentially some of the juices are going to be binned, but at the same time, if it is an essential part of the steeping process I don't want to be misled by a juice potentially having different characteristics caused by adding the nicotine post-steep.

    So when do folks here add nic, before or after steeping?
     
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  2. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    I always add it before. I don’t know enough about mixing to be helpful with any of the other stuff other than to say that nicotine adds throat hit and can have a mild peppery taste so my suspicion would be that it affects flavor. Particularly if the nicotine is cheap or old.
     
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  3. ScottP

    ScottP Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2013
    Houston, TX
    I don't think GOOD nic really affects flavor. However, if you make a batch without nic then add it to an existing mixture later it WILL dilute the flavor. So what I would suggest is make small 10ml batches to test flavors without nic. Once you get the taste right THEN make a new batch and and replace a portion of either the PG or VG (depending on what your nic is in) with the nic. That way it is not diluted
     
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  4. muth

    muth Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 20, 2014
    Boston, MA, USA
    That's the operative word. If the nic is fresh and good quality it should be odorless and tasteless.

    I always keep my juice in a cool, dark place no matter if it's steeping or being used. It's mostly being used:laugh:
     
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  5. muth

    muth Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 20, 2014
    Boston, MA, USA
    The nic I use is odorless and tasteless and I add it to my mix from the start. Then I keep it in a cool, dark place. However, there have been times when I mixed small batches without nic. I only use 3mg which isn't really enough to make a difference in taste.
     
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  6. AXIOM_1

    AXIOM_1 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 6, 2015
    my own mind
    lightweight ;) ... Yeah Nicotine is "usually" colorless and odorless (if it's good) , but that depends upon how old it is and if it's been stored properly.... I DIY with my juices and I stopped vaping for quite a few months once and when I started vaping again, I went to mix up some juices and I noticed that my Nicotine had taken on a bit of an odor and it also turned a slight tinge of brown/yellow.... Most unpleasant.

    Of course, I did not store it properly either as it was just kept in bottles and not put into a fridge....
     
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  7. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    I have no idea, because I've never done a nic free DIY experiment. I make nic base at 20 mg/ml because I am used to 18, and I usually add 10% flavor, so I call it good.

    I have noticed SOME difference in my more freebased nic juices, but it's more a lack of that "salt" taste, and kinda, well just more normal tasting. IDK. I think nicsalts do taste a bit different than freebase, and it' s not necessarily "bad" it's what I'm used to but I'm okay with the fact that I have cracked out my first liter of freebase. Etc. It just, IDK I guess it could affect some flavors with some mixes and maybe I am not sophisticated enough to tell. But, I do think good nic should be fairly tasteless. Throat hit? Maybe. But tasteless.

    Anna
     
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  8. BrotherBob

    BrotherBob ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Dec 24, 2014
    Sunnyvale,CA,USA
    Arguable, but for me when I was using nic, essential. No use tasting a small sample and have it change when adding nic.
    Essential component for me along with a 4 week steep. If the mix and nic are bad after 4 weeks, I have a failed mix.
    "how do commercial producers compensate" ?????
    It all depends on you, my sample sizes and nic (3mg typical) where almost always 5 ml. for most simple test batches.
     
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  9. SlowTalker

    SlowTalker Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 8, 2010
    Ohio
    I always mix new tries with nic. It changes the character of the juice with steeping. Just for full disclosure I mix at 18mg.
     
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  10. muth

    muth Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 20, 2014
    Boston, MA, USA
    I might be a lightweight but you've been negligent:lol:...shame

    I actually did something similar. I had an unopened container from NicRiver but I never transferred it to glass and freezer (100% pg base). When I finally got around to it I noticed it had yellowed just a bit and had an ever so slight odor. I asked NicRiver about it and was reassured that it didn't spoil and was safe to use unless it bothered me. They also said that some nicotine will be slightly colored. He also added that the Chemnovatic line has a longer shelf life if I was interested. Truthfully, I think that container was sitting for almost a year but in a cool place and still in the shipping box. Still, I'm going to make some juice with and without to do a comparison. I'm picky.
     
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  11. glasseye

    glasseye Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 15, 2012
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    Maybe. Possibly. It depends on the strength of your nic, how many mg you use, and the recipe itself. Light fruity flavors might be affected, more so than a tobacco recipe.
     
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  12. AXIOM_1

    AXIOM_1 Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 6, 2015
    my own mind
    LOL ... Just messing with you about the "lightweight" comment ;) ... Yeah, most nic I have ever seen turns color and takes on an odor after sitting for an extended period of time (unless refrigerated) .... I have even vaped old nic that has turned color and it still provided my nic fix..... But I would much rather vape odorless/colorless nic :)
     
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  13. Vapedog

    Vapedog Super Member

    Oct 28, 2018
    Ahh, that may be why my milk in Sumner tastes so sour. :laugh:
    Seriously though, I notice no difference other than with gives a throat hit and without it theres no throat hit. Tastes the same. But I buy qaulity, clear, odourless and store mine in a fridge.
     
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  14. rob33

    rob33 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 20, 2009
    Concord, NC
    I keep a FDA doomsday supply in the deep freeze and continue to buy smaller fresher lots to use today. I can notice even being stored in the freezer the freshest like anything else is better.
     
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  15. DeloresRose

    DeloresRose Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Apr 25, 2014
    toledo ohio
    I know people say good fresh nic is odorless and tasteless, but I have always been able to smell it and taste it. I buy from the same vendors everyone else does, five years of diy, I can’t even recall how many liters...

    I mean it’s clear, stored in the freezer, and I don’t order in the heat of the summer. And it’s not an unpleasant odor, just a nip peppery.

    Anyway, so yeah, I test with it.
     
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  16. Sugar_and_Spice

    Sugar_and_Spice ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 11, 2010
    between here and there
    Do a bit of testing . Make some test juice, 1 with nic and 1 without, then you can determine if you can tell the difference. Some people may be able to and some may not.

    :)
     
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  17. mjag

    mjag Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 8, 2014
    United States
    I always mix with nic when trying a new flavor but then again I am at 1.5mg so not gonna affect flavor since I use quality nic.

    I do mix for friends and have recently started making big 960ml bottles to steep and be ready when someone needs juice. I do not add nic as they all vape different strengths. I just add the proper amount of nic to whatever size bottle they want then add the pre-steeped juice.

    If you are making a big batch for a long steep, say 3+ months then best not to add nic especially if they are 3mg or more. A friend of mine made a large batch of custards, 1 with 3mg and the other with no nic to let them steep for 3 or 4 months. The 3mg got so harsh it was unvapable unless you made a no nic mix to cut it down to 1.5mg but the no nic batch was perfect.

    For the purest flavor when testing recipes best not to add nic, there is no flavor advantage to the nicotine.

    Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
     
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  18. Old Greybeard

    Old Greybeard Super Member

    Aug 31, 2018
    Cumbria
    That's useful to know @mjag, I had a 100ml batch go bad on me over a longish steep (3-4 months). I thought it was just the air in the bottle, but the nic may have played a part in this as well.

    I am a self confessed lightweight though, I started off @6mg and have settled on 3mg. I can't abide harsh, peppery juice that catches my throat.
     
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  19. Falconeer

    Falconeer Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    I do mix my own "unflavoured" juices - 50/50 PG/VG to 16 strength. I have tried no nic base liquid and I felt it lacked a certain "prickle" so have happily added nicotine since that experiment.

    That said, a few years ago I tried Space Jam e liquid at 12 strength in Spain from a very reputable Vape Shop and liked it a lot. Knowing I'd be gasping for a puff the moment I got off the plane back home I bought a bottle of the said Space Jam at 18 strength to load up with at Newcastle ... and found it really affected the taste; being honest it ruined it completely and knocked out the more suble elemements.

    So I'd guess it can affect some flavours, but that's only my experience.
     
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  20. muth

    muth Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 20, 2014
    Boston, MA, USA
    I'm having trouble figuring out why my flavor would be diluted if I add the nic later. For example: I mix a 30 ml bottle of my favorite recipe. I use 3% PG based nic (0.9 mls). I add everything but the 0.9 mls of nic, which I'll add right before vaping. You mean to tell me I'll be diluting the flavor with that? I just don't see it. I'm only adding a portion of the recipe already calculated to be added.
     
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