How much nic.?
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I've bought all my nic so far from MFS. I've been happy with it but there is a certain Ignorance Is Bliss aspect to it
. They were the cheapest around back when I started DIY and I never saw what I thought were credible complaints about it (I've found complaints about every nic vendor out there, so I have a fuzzy idea of what I find "credible").The (MFS) glass bottles are nice although the caps are not polycone, which I think is superior for long term storage and even medium term. Their liters of 100mg are only sold in plastic bottles, for what I suspect are good reasons.
You will at some point need to find a good supplier of boston round bottles. Sooner or later
I got a big assortment of bottles here :
Glass Bottle Outlet
The only complaint I have is that they do not sell polycone caps for their 8 oz bottles. I found out afterward how expensive it can be to source a few polycone caps, at least in the size needed. And I want to reiterate that you really want polycone caps for all your bottles. The cheap plastic ones break, and if you buy a bottle + cap as one item from any given source, it can be difficult to find replacement caps because not all boston rounds are the same. I already have a few bottle/cap compatibility issues where bottles from one source have different necks than other sources. Ideally you want to know the cap size of your bottles before you buy, and have a Plan B to replace caps.
ETA: The vendor linked above here *may* sell polycone caps for their 8oz bottles. They list a bottle + polycone cap for cobalt blue but not amber. They do not specify cap size on their bottles, or cross reference their caps back to the bottles that fit (in many cases). Sigh. If I buy from them again I need to have an email or phone discussion about all this
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Just ordered 120 mL EU Sourced Throat-Hit Nic (100 mg USP/EP) good start anyways.
@Bonnie C - Are you aware that the "Throat Hit" nic they sell is particularly harsh?
N
FYI: I mix at 1.2% for the wife and .6% for me.
I don't find much difference between the regulat VT nic, the TH nic, nor the direct from Chemovatic nic I get over here. (Spain)
Compared with NN and MFS nic... it's all VERY similar.
I do not think any differences will be noted in your final mixes.
Cheers
I
FYI: I mix at 1.2% for the wife and .6% for me.
I don't find much difference between the regulat VT nic, the TH nic, nor the direct from Chemovatic nic I get over here. (Spain)
Compared with NN and MFS nic... it's all VERY similar.
I do not think any differences will be noted in your final mixes.
Cheers
I
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I just looked into it before you mentioned it. I do now.
I am a tobacco vaper so don't mind the hit.
Thanks for that feedback. I am not familiar with that TH nic, except what I've read casually here about it. Just wanted to make sure Bonnie knew what she was ordering, whatever that stuff really is and whatever it really tastes like
I also noted that they sell 120ml for $10, and 1000ml for $25. The liters are a very good buy and I know a lot of people here are happy with it at that price. The 120ml, only for a single bottle sample, otherwise it is over 3x as much per liter/ml.
Thanks for that feedback. I am not familiar with that TH nic, except what I've read casually here about it. Just wanted to make sure Bonnie knew what she was ordering, whatever that stuff really is and whatever it really tastes like
I also noted that they sell 120ml for $10, and 1000ml for $25. The liters are a very good buy and I know a lot of people here are happy with it at that price. The 120ml, only for a single bottle sample, otherwise it is over 3x as much per liter/ml.
Agreed on the sizing/pricing..
If you KNOW what you like...get the "value" size, but for most folks starting out... A litre is a big investment especially if they are only "dabbling" in DIY.
I spent more buying 100ml /120ml samples, trying things out, but in the end, I used it all up and repurchased based on value and taste. (and NO glass bottles).
From a storage perspective, a factory sealed 120ml is manageable in the freezer. Most folks that buy in full litres will decant a working solution of 50-100ml and leave the remainder in the deep freeze. ( I use the empty 100/120 bottles when I break down a litre)
Use wise, 120ml of base should last an average user about a year, give or take, even stored at room temperature, little to no degradation should be noticed. ( I keep my working bottle in the fridge in an opaque tupperware).
Have fun
I
You said... "Most folks that buy in full litres will decant a working solution of 50-100ml and leave the remainder in the deep freeze."
I disagree on that, if you are suggesting that a small amount is decanted out of a liter bottle, which is then returned to the freezer now partially filled. Most people here DO NOT allow their long term storage freezer bottles to have any more than a bare minimum of air (I fill my bottles to within 1/4" of the very top because it does not expand at all or actually freeze). Also, each time nic is removed from the freezer it is subject to absorbing moisture due to the temp differences. The bottle should be allowed to come up to room temps naturally before opening.
The idea is that air contains oxygen and it is oxygen that oxidizes nic. Regardless of the rate of oxidation or the real world effect, it is surely a good idea to minimize air in the long term storage bottles. The method I outlined above requires a minimal number of bottles and results in only a couple of pours at most throughout the life of the long term storage.
I think it is a good idea for everyone to calculate their nic usage, in terms of milligrams per day, and work that into the bottle sizes they use and the amount of nic they store. A 100mg liter contains 100,000 milligrams of nic. Using me, for example, I vape about 10-12ml per day, mostly 3mg but I also use 6mg when I am out and about and may need to sneak vapes.
So I use about 50mg/day max, which results in 100,000/50 = 2000 day supply, or about a 5.5 year supply. I use about 0.5ml of concentrate per day on average, so a 30ml bottle lasts me 2 months, which is a comfortable amount for me to keep on the shelf. If I vaped 12mg, in the same amounts, that would only be a couple of week supply and I might use larger bottles for working storage.
I'm not arguing with your use of 100ml working bottles, just saying that is more than I want to keep at room temps, with a lot of air in the bottle. I don't know what the magic number of days is, but 2 months keeps me from having to think about it
. I'm just explaining the math behind my own decision. Everyone should come to their own conclusion on this since we have little firm data, except that less air in the bottle is better, and lower temps (preferably a freezer) are better. And I have multiple liters because I want to be prepared for either no availability at all, or very high taxes on it, and I think that will come sooner than later and I don't want to be in the mad dash when new regs or taxes are announced and imminent. So I have a 10+ year time horizon on this.There is also a safety issue here. Since the working bottle is handled often, it is more subject to breakage. Now, you have to decide about how you feel about 100ml vs 30ml of nic splattering all over your kitchen or other working area. Plus, larger bottles are probably more fragile than smaller bottles. I particularly worry about that in regards to freezer storage of some larger bottles but those bottles are all wrapped inside heavy duty zip lock freezer bags so hopefully that would contain a broken bottle spill.
I want to add to my last... in addition to the length of time the concentrated nic might sit on a shelf, in a partially filled bottle, you have to consider how long it sits in a final mix, or maybe also some intermediate mix. I have final juice laying around here for over a year now. If I let the nic sit for a year too, that could be two years or more. That is one reason I try to minimize the storage time of working bottle concentrate, at room tempts in partially filled bottles.
Very good points mate..
For me,
New litre bottles hit storage intact. They are "reserves"; they get dated and live in a frozen zipperbag.
I tend to break my working litre down into 8-10, 100ml-120ml bottles.
They get dated and batched into a large ziplock and go back in the freezer.
As I need it, I pull a frozen bottle and it becomes my working bottle. (stored in fridge tupper).
Like anything... we will find a workflow that fits our style and that becomes " our way of doing it".
Cheers
I
For me,
New litre bottles hit storage intact. They are "reserves"; they get dated and live in a frozen zipperbag.
I tend to break my working litre down into 8-10, 100ml-120ml bottles.
They get dated and batched into a large ziplock and go back in the freezer.
As I need it, I pull a frozen bottle and it becomes my working bottle. (stored in fridge tupper).
Like anything... we will find a workflow that fits our style and that becomes " our way of doing it".
Cheers
I
Then we are in total agreement. The bottle config I gave was just illustrative of the idea of never having partially filled bottles in long term freezer storage. I've actually thought about your config as an alternative because I have a liter bottle I need to break down soon. I have very limited freezer storage; if I had a stand alone freezer I would more likely do it your way, but break one 100-120ml bottle into 30ml bottles (one working, the others in the freezer) just because that's my preference (just illustrating one more of many very viable alternatives). And I also prefer to store additional liters in one liter bottles since I may never actually even use them.
You can get a sample from nudenic for 2$ shipping think it was 15ml can get in 100mg to start with so dont have alot
I buy 100 and divide them into 125 ml bottles. I picked up some 250 ml bottles cheap so my next liter will be stored in that. I like to find those insulated lunch boxes cheap at the thrift store and once the bottles are put into individual ziplock bags a liter fits perfectly in one!
My first nic buy was 500ml of 48mg 50/50 and thats what I have programmed into my calculator My next order was a liter of 100 nic 50/50, cut it into 1-500ml and 10 50ml amber bottles thus making 100ml of 48 nic base at a time. Depending on where you live the larger (500ml) bottles I got from my local U-Brew place, the bottles have wire tops. The smaller bottles(50-250ml) I got from a apothecary who rebottle all their stuff or health food stores sell bottles also. Dollar stores also have glass bottles that seal for storing mixed juices in.
Mini funnels you can get out of eBay(china) along with beakers if your going in that direction
Syringes and needles I got from my vet, showed them my PV, how it works and explained that I wasn't a junkie, just a DIY juice mixer who quit smoking. I blunted the needles myself with a bench grinder. I don't know if your going to mix with syringes or scale but I started with syringes and have a constant cleanup but now use weight and have no cleanup other than a rogue drop or two every so often.
After learning to rebuild and now mixing my own juices my vape experience is the best it can be.
Don't be scared of the nic just respect it and it will do you well.
Mini funnels you can get out of eBay(china) along with beakers if your going in that direction
Syringes and needles I got from my vet, showed them my PV, how it works and explained that I wasn't a junkie, just a DIY juice mixer who quit smoking. I blunted the needles myself with a bench grinder. I don't know if your going to mix with syringes or scale but I started with syringes and have a constant cleanup but now use weight and have no cleanup other than a rogue drop or two every so often.
After learning to rebuild and now mixing my own juices my vape experience is the best it can be.
Don't be scared of the nic just respect it and it will do you well.
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