How to add complexity to DIY eliquid?

[mrtuna]

I made the mistake of buying a $30 bottle of 30ml Five Pawns eliquid. The premium stuff puts my home mixes to shame! I am mostly a tobacco & menthol vaper but occasionally like for cinnamon , coffee, or brandy flavors. Mine always taste flat. It's usually 2 flavors mixed with nic juice. What are some tricks? Sweetener, adding small amounts of other flavors? If I do a red and white menthol type blend should I add mints with menthol or 2 different menthols and more than 1 type of tobacco?

Thanks! I have been vaping for 6 years but just started making my own.


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[Shirtbloke]

If you want to add some complexity to tobacco liquids I would suggest you get some of Inawera's Tobacco Absolutes (Virginia and Garuda are probably the best) and some DNB (Dirty Neutral Base) for adding some ashy taste, Any one of these added at 1% will improve a tobacco liquid and add complexity to the taste.

 

[BrotherBob]

If I do a red and white menthol type blend should I add mints with menthol or 2 different menthols and more than 1 type of tobacco

Yes. The trick is to use very small sample sizes. I mix up to 10ea. 2 ml. of different combinations of the same base. Some mixers even mix, vape and then add a correction , remix revape and so forth. This method is too advanced for me because I do not feel comfortable doing it that way.
I set up a system that I feel comfortable with and works for me. You may want to do the same. I mix what I think may work or has a good chance of working.
I find tobaccos (fruit mixes also fall in to this category, IMO) a little easier to work with than other flavors. With tobaccos, you should not go to wrong experimenting with complexity. Go for it.

What are some tricks? Sweetener, adding small amounts of other flavors?

All of the above. You have to find out what additives do for the mix. Example: Very small amount of lemon can add a tang to the mix. Suggest you research tobacco additives to mixes. Make note of other recipes and different additives. Freely experiment with the same until you find an ADV. Within reason, I find there is really no hard and fast rules in DIY.

This thread is a long one but if you are interested in tobac, go for it.
Favorite tobacco flavoring discussion - Tobacco flavoring discussion only

 

[Broodmance]

Tobaccos tend to be somewhat complex on your own. You don't have to add very much to make them more complex. You can never go wrong with a cream. Tfa Bavarian cream 1-3 percent helps or FA fresh cream no more than 2% IMO. Adds a nice layer of depth to your tobaccos. Other creams work as well but I can't speak on them.

Vanillas and caramels are good to add. Get a less candy type caramel like flavor arts. Vanilla bourbon is also a nice touch.

Fruits can be added as well. Coconut and apple work well IMO.

You don't need 10 flavors for complexity. 2-4 flavors can be amazingly complex and delicious.

 

[dannyv45]

Excellent suggestions above and expecially reading through the tobacco thread. The first step to a great tobacco mix is a great tobacco flavoring manufacture.
Two of the best are Hangsen and inawera in that order. Also you can't have a good tobacco vape without starting with a good tobacco base. If the base is to harsh or peppery your mix will reflect the same usually masking any true tobacco taste. Read my blog on bases (Links below). Trying to mask the short comings of a mix with additives is not the answer to good tobacco vapes. Additives such as TA, Sweetener, Nets are used to bring out the subtleties of a base tobacco and should be used sparingly and not to correct taste issues caused by poor quality flavoring or bad base.

 

[Shirtbloke]

Should also add that the tobacco Absolutes also go well with coffees and chocolates. Haven't tried them with brandy or cinnamon but I suspect the brandy would work well.

 

[Rickb119]

Fruits can be added as well. Coconut and apple work well IMO.

Apricot is another that works well, in very small amounts.

 

[AndriaD]

For adding some "complexity" or "subtlety" to tobacco flavors, I think Hazelnut is top-notch; it's made with acetyl pyrazine, which can yield a flavor anywhere from fritos (too much!) to any type of "nuts" (using just a teeny bit), and to me it also has a bit of smokiness; hazelnut really adds a lot of depth to a tobacco and/or tobacco+something type of vape.

Andria

 

[Broodmance]

For adding some "complexity" or "subtlety" to tobacco flavors, I think Hazelnut is top-notch; it's made with acetyl pyrazine, which can yield a flavor anywhere from fritos (too much!) to any type of "nuts" (using just a teeny bit), and to me it also has a bit of smokiness; hazelnut really adds a lot of depth to a tobacco and/or tobacco+something type of vape.

Andria

I forgot to mention acetyl pyrazine in my oringal post so thanks for that andria.

 

[Broodmance]

FA oakwood is another good additive. Between .5 and 2% is a good range I think. (Haven't tried any higher myself) Adds a nice earthy wood taste.

 

[DoubleEwe]

Peanut butter, caramel & marshmallow. Those three for me (roughly equal parts) together makes a coffee taste after a week's steep.
Not sure if anyone else has had that experience with them though...

 

[mrtuna]

That for the great suggestions!


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[Adam harris]

Amazing information here!

 

[AndriaD]

FA oakwood is another good additive. Between .5 and 2% is a good range I think. (Haven't tried any higher myself) Adds a nice earthy wood taste.

When I was still vaping tobacco flavors, I tried a flavor called "Red Oak Tobacco"... it reminded me of the smell of the pencil sharpener, when I was in school.

Andria

 

[Adam harris]

When I was still vaping tobacco flavors, I tried a flavor called "Red Oak Tobacco"... it reminded me of the smell of the pencil sharpener, when I was in school.

Andria

Oh...I bet that flavor wasn't very good

 

[AndriaD]

Oh...I bet that flavor wasn't very good

No, because everytime I tried to take a hit, it was like chewing on a pencil!

Andria

 

[milandjikic]

I never mix plain flavours, and almost always in every of my tobacco liquids there are hints of a fruit (lemon, peach, orange, kiwi, dragon fruit etc) and in almost every single fruity or candy flavour i make there are some hints of a tobacco or some other stuff.
For example, my favorite vape flavour is M-Type. If i would mix premade single juices flavour it would look something like this. 50% of liquid is a M-Type, 10% vanilla(for example) swirl, 10% vfrench vanilla deluxe, 10% DK tobacco, 10% juicy peach or some other fruit, 10% graham cracker or some other. Mix it all together, and add on top of it some sweetener, or just a 2 drops of Koolada to refresh the aftertase. I rarely mix same percentages, came close to a perfect all day vape, but always testing and changing percentages with every new baych i made...
The only difference between my liquid and some bran liquid is the fact they use more than double amount of the flavours in their juices and since i've noticed it's lot better chance to get a "vapers tongue" if i go too heavy with flavours, i'm mixing them only to feel them not to get overwhelmed by them.
For example, i am solely TPA user, and M-Type is best for me at around 1.5%, some of the fruit flavours like juicy peach work best for my liking at 5% while recommendations are 10 to 15% and so on.

Everyone can make complex liquid, it just takes a lot of time and testing to get there, and some imagination of course

 

[AndriaD]

Everyone can make complex liquid, it just takes a lot of time and testing to get there, and some imagination of course

I wouldn't say it takes a LOT of time, but it does require imagination, patience, and perseverance. When I decided to make a strawberry & cream vape, pretty much every recipe I looked at required some ingredient that I either didn't have, or wouldn't use because it contains diketones. So I figured I was going to have to go the same route as I take for cooking -- look at a lot of different recipes, get an idea of what goes well together and in what proportions, and then make my own recipe. I came up with it near the very beginning of starting DIY, when I was finding that other people's recipes just didn't taste like *anything* to me; I very fortunately happened to peek into the TFA thread, where I ran across the idea of High Flavor Mixing -- 25%-30% flavoring -- and the guideline offered by @Bill's Magic Vapor, of 50% "main" flavor, 50% supporting flavors -- creams, vanillas, and sweetener.

The recipe I came up with needed only one small tweak, and then became the best ejuice I've EVER vaped, and has remained my ADV for over a year now.

Strawberry & Cream (original)
Inawera Shisha Strawberry 16%
TFA DX Bavarian Cream 6%
TFA Vanilla Swirl 4.5%
CAP Sweet Cream 2%
TFA Sweetener 2% - 3%


Because it's a massive gunker, I experimented a little with slightly lower percentages, and came up with this variation, which is slightly less gunking, but still excellent:

Strawberry & Cream (Lite)
Inawera Shisha Strawberry 15.6%
TFA DX Bavarian Cream 5.7%
TFA Vanilla Swirl 4.3%
CAP Sweet Cream 1.9%
TFA Sweetener 2.5%

Andria

 

[herb]

Your not going to get a "Five Pawns" experience with two flavors. The good clones of "Five Pawns" juices around the web include a lot of different flavorings , like 6 to 8 different flavorings sometimes.

 

[Adam harris]

No, because everytime I tried to take a hit, it was like chewing on a pencil!

Andria

That's bringing elementary school memory of me leaving teeth marks in the old number 2 pencils...YUCK!