How to fix airy draw on Titan?

[Morandir835]

It's up, but not perfect Cyrus Vap sir. There are a few batts with a completely different issue, that one does involve the thread holes, making the draw on those bad, which mimics the sticky switch. The require more force to activate than their proper holed counterparts. Mark sir has been sent one of those batts....

 

[plarkinjr]

Morandir, there's no need to spend postage to mail me one with a stuck switch, unless you really want to, and think it would help the greater good. But what you describe about the function of the airholes is exactly as I understood it, and how I explained it:

The blue air is "bypass air" which represents the air going thru the holes in the threads. It does nothing to help activate the switch (because it bypasses it), but it does permit more TOTAL air to pass thru the entire unit.

We are mostly saying the same thing.

Now, the holes in the threads (i.e. bypass air) DO affect how the switch operates INDIRECTLY. Lets imagine for the sake of argument that e-cig user "X" is only willing and able to pull 3 CFM (cubic feet per minute) of air. So, then imagine an auto-battery and assume the thread holes can pass 2 CFM of air. That leaves 1 CFM to the switch. If the switch on BatteryA needs 1.2, and BatteryB needs 1... then user "X" will be disappointed with BattA, and happy with BattB, while user "Z" (who pulls 4 CFM) will be happy with both. Now, if user "X" is able to reduce the bypass (thread holes) from 2 to 1.5 on BattA, his 3 CFM draw will effectively send the remaining 1.5 to the switch, and he will be happy with both Batts. However, user "Z" with his 4 CFM draw will find the increased resistance of user "X"s plugged BattA objectionable.

I think we're saying the same thing, just differently.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

It's up, but not perfect Cyrus Vap sir. There are a few batts with a completely different issue, that one does involve the thread holes, making the draw on those bad, which mimics the sticky switch. The require more force to activate than their proper holed counterparts. Mark sir has been sent one of those batts....

Is that fix posted over there or over here ?

 

[Morandir835]

On both places Cyrus Vap sir. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vapor4life/269445-vtkd-fix.html

Plarkinjr sir no we're not. The air intake holes on the threads are for better draw. The air intake holes on the bottom on the batt are for the switch (and for venting). As is the hole in the center, or the ones on the side of the post. When the switch is stuck in the battery you need to increase air speed, which some equate to harder draw. This is especially true with "sealed" autos. What you're noticing is the air flow from the thread holes, but what matters most is none is coming through the batt because the switch is stuck.

 

[plarkinjr]

Then Morandir, I have no idea what you are talking about. Everything you say matches what I'm saying, but then you say we are not saying the same thing. I give up.

 

[TheScootness]

Scoot, here's a simple experiment to see if decreasing bypass ratio will help: Take some scotch tape and wrap it around the the batt/carto junction (leave a tail so you can remove it). Then take a gentle draw. It will be like the proverbial "golfball thru a milkshake straw". But if the LED fires and you get vapor, then you could probably benefit from plugging one of the holes in the threads. Otherwise, it's like trying to suck a golfball thru a 4" dryer vent hose.

Yeah I saw someone suggest this and actually did it this morning. I covered up two of the four holes in the cart and it's working a little better. Not quite the draw/hit from the regular diamond auto's but oh well.

 

[plarkinjr]

Yeah, I think its a compromise.... to get "sealed" auto switch, you have to give up sensitivity on the switch (i.e. puff harder) or restrict the bypass air to force more of your puff to travel thru the switch.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

What I find interesting:

Gen2 batt: cover the ash tip slits and your light turns out no activation

Unsealed diamond : cover the blingage slits and nothing changes

 

[Cyrus Vap]

On both places Cyrus Vap sir. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vapor4life/269445-vtkd-fix.html

Plarkinjr sir no we're not. The air intake holes on the threads are for better draw. The air intake holes on the bottom on the batt are for the switch (and for venting). As is the hole in the center, or the ones on the side of the post. When the switch is stuck in the battery you need to increase air speed, which some equate to harder draw. This is especially true with "sealed" autos. What you're noticing is the air flow from the thread holes, but what matters most is none is coming through the batt because the switch is stuck.

I don't know what the anatomy of a battery switch is. But I think you're saying that a stuck switch is literally a physical barrier to airflow through the ash end of a batt?

Hence smacking it on the table can unstick it and move it out of the way?

 

[Cyrus Vap]

On both places Cyrus Vap sir. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/vapor4life/269445-vtkd-fix.html

Plarkinjr sir no we're not. The air intake holes on the threads are for better draw. The air intake holes on the bottom on the batt are for the switch (and for venting). As is the hole in the center, or the ones on the side of the post. When the switch is stuck in the battery you need to increase air speed, which some equate to harder draw. This is especially true with "sealed" autos. What you're noticing is the air flow from the thread holes, but what matters most is none is coming through the batt because the switch is stuck.

Sorry I was talking about the 'new fix' that was in the works. I knew about this one! Did I misread earlier in this thread?

There's a fix though, works on all but the batts with the wrong hole alignment. Mark sir has been sent one of those batteries to see. That's all I'll say on it until back in md....

 

[katz-in-boots]

Katz, do you love the cigar color as much as I love the way you spell 'colour'?

Continuing OT here: It's brown, not a fan of brown, but with the gold bits, it's classy and will work nicely with black or gold cartos.
And yes, it's colour, just like vapour, & labour. Then there are things like theatre, tyre, and goodness knows what else we spell the English way. These days Australian is a peculiar hybrid of English, American and our own vernacular. Sometimes I am tempted to be lazy and leave out the U, but I just can't do it.

Anyway, as the proud owner of new Auto VTs, please do continue the search for improved airflow....

 

[blight231]

Just got a soft touch auto titan today ( the cigar one cool ! ) I havn't experienced any of the draw issues posted. I use the other one right afterwards and cant tell the difference. I will say I take a pretty heavy draw anyways but I cant feel any resistance. Even if there was some I would be cool with it though. The reliablity is a fair trade off. Love the original diamonds but i've got about 3 shorted out ones that I have to stare at every day .... fair trade.

 

[Morandir835]

Because you keep comparing it to a jet engine Plarkinjr sir. It's not a jet engine, and the thread holes affect the draw, not the switch.

Cyrus Vap sir the physical switch of the battery is internal and can ship sticky at times. When this happens the air flow comes mainly from the thread holes, not the air hole or holes on the sealed in the post. This makes people think (especially with the sealed vtkd's and vtstealths) that the thread holes are the problem because they're letting too much air through. That's not the case at all. The post on the velvet touch autos sits higher to start with, V4L knew the drawbacks to using a sealed design and did this on purpose, when the switch is sticking, the extra airflow for the draw via the thread holes is truly noticeable.

Oddly enough everyone who has tried the switch reset fix from that thread with a vtkd with the proper airhole alignments it's worked. Those with the bad alignment it hasn't, because the draw can't be fixed on those without drilling a new hole in the threading. One issue is a sticky switch, the other is a bad draw. While they may seem the same, they're not.....

 

[Religion]

I can't find the thread on switch resets. I've tried the toothpick fix, and it works, but I was hoping for something a little less tinker-y.

 

[plarkinjr]

Maybe you are stuck on trying to solve a "sticky switch" and not the "too airy draw" people are asking about in this thread.

Because you keep comparing it to a jet engine Plarkinjr sir. It's not a jet engine, and the thread holes affect the draw, not the switch.

I know that the thread holes do not (directly) affect the switch, and I guess I did not explain the nuances of a turboFAN vs a pure jet engine. Oh well. Explain to us then why so many of us are able to get the switch to fire more easily by simply plugging the thread holes? Given these direct observations, I'm certainly NOT going to ADD thread holes!

How about we think of it this way:
Take a straw and put it in very thick milkshake - very hard "draw", right?
Now, take that straw and put it in a glass of water - draw is "just right", right?
Now, punch some holes in the side of the straw - draw is "great", but now you cannot get water into your mouth without a LOT of work. In other words, the work force you are exerting is "wasted" out the holes, therefore bypassing the channel thru which the water would pass.... just as the thread holes bypass the channel in which the swtich is located on an e-cig... just as the "bypass air" in a turbofan does not contribute to the "combustion" air.

So, back to the turbofan... imagine a poorly designed one: The combustion portion is 6 inches in diameter, but the bypass fan is 6 FEET and weighs 1000 pounds. There's not enough "power" in the combustion to turn the fan. Reduce the size of the fan enough and BINGO - it works! So, reverse that for an e-cig: too much air bypassing the switch causes it to NOT operate.

So, take it to an extreme: hold a battery in your right hand at arms length. With your left hand, place a carto in your mouth, pointed at the battery and draw. the switch will NEVER trigger because ALL of the air is bypassing it. Now, connect a 3 foot hose between the batt and carto, then draw: Looky! the LED lights, but almost no air passes. Peirce the hose a few times and now you get some air flow. But pierce too many holes and the LED stops lighting. Why? Because when you draw, air BYPASSES the switch channel. And yes, I have actually done this!

In closing, I wish to re-iterate: I do not believe I am experiencing 100% "faulty" switches in the 3 auto VT1003s I have. I DO believe it is a simple matter of PREFERENCE that the switches require more air (call it speed, pressure, or whatever) than some users are accustomed to. I've never tried a so-called 'gen2 sealed' but you claim there is too little flow in them (which in your opinion is "bad"). Elsewhere in this thread you mention that some VTKD have "bad" draw. Presumably your definition of "bad" is consistent between these? However, I believe that "too airy to trigger the switch" (as discussed in this thread is "bad") so perhaps we have opposite definitions of "bad". >shrugs<

 

[Morandir835]

Plarkinjr sir the ones with a bad draw happen to have the wrong post alignment, instead of being the proper peace sign like set up on the three intake holes it's two 180 degrees apart, and the other 25-30 degrees from it. This has produced a hard draw. So even if the fix of raising the post, and if that fails slightly adjusting the post hole alignment with the thread holes, it doesn't fix the hard draw issue. Have kept this quiet for pretty obvious reasons, wanted Mark sir to see the batt (hoping it's arrived while I was in Alabama), and two because gave people who like to jump on others fixes and do no study of their own a chance to figure it out for themselves. 2 weeks later still the only person to notice the issue on their own is my idiotic self. It's been confirmed these batts are an issue by a number of people who have gotten them, and pm'd me after the fix didn't work. The usual response was "the switch is now activating, but the draw is still too stiff". Was hoping the lone shorty I had with the wrong holes was an anomaly, much like the carto Snow sir recieved with the holes punched in the top, not the bottom. Sadly it wasn't.

In closing according to you the sealed autos run of a 3:2 ratio, they have never ran off a 3:2 ratio. On the unsealed they are 2:1, 2 holes on the end of the batt, 1 in the post. On the sealed it's a 2:2 ratio. So again, it's not a jet engine, and blocking a draw hole isn't a fix unless you want a stiffer draw. Will again send you one of the volt sealed gen 2 batts, one without a sticky switch and one with. You can see for yourself how hard it is to get the switch to activate on the sticky one, and how hard the draw is on the non-sticky one. Some people will say the sticky one has a harder draw, no it's the fact the switch requires more airspeed to get going. The draw is the same on both if the switch wasn't sticky. That's not a matter of preference, matter of how the batt was designed and switch that is slightly faulty. Never tried the fix on it, or in all seriousness to fix it. Not a fan of gen 2 batts, and they have a person there on that forum who should be doing that kind of help.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Morandir im pretty sure Ive had two diamonds (defective on arrival) with this issue (bad hole spacing as you describe above)

One has been sent back already and the other I'm going to go check on now

 

[plarkinjr]

Morandir, I'm sorry if I led you to believe I had ACTUAL ratio values. I don't have any way to test actual "CFM" thru thread holes, switch holes, or anything else at all. I was simply giving hypotheticals to explain my theory on why plugging holes helps fix MY "problem".

And for what it is worth, of my 3 VT1003 autos, none have "hard" draw, all require more airspeed than preferred to activate. And one of the three does have the funky thread hole spacing: 12, 6 and 8 o'clock as viewed from above. raising the post to near flush, and aligning one of the post-holes with a thread hole does nothing to any of these to improve ease of switch activation. plugging 1 or 2 of the thread holes "diverts" enough draw pressure to activate the switch more easily, albeit at the cost of reducing overall draw resistance and air flow. Just reporting what I have personally found.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

This thread has motivated me to take a drill to the air flow holes on my gen 2s. Unfortunately for me I don't own a drill. Home depot anyone?

 

[jamvector]

Cyrus, you will want to use a 1mm bit, and a regular drill will not usually accommodate such a small size, some Dremel tools will perhaps, but you really need to use a drill press as it is very easy to break a 1mm bit. In late 2010, V4L batts had changed again from what I started with in Jan 2010, and become much harder to draw, especially on the new generation of V4L carts sold then. I was able to resurrect all my old batts by taking them to our machine shop and using a miniature drill press with a 1mm bit on the air holes and they had great draw after that. Yeah I realize not everyone has access to a machine shop, just saying it's not as easy as it sounds. Since the threaded flange is brass, some people just dig them out to make them bigger with mixed results and potential damage to the threads around the hole. I only use manuals, far too many problems with any of the autos I tried to like over the last two years - all have been a waste of money. Just my $0.02